Weightmans (HFC) Judgement Help

[nosewheel]

Hi

HELP NEEDED URGENTLY!

Weightmans acting for HFC had a court order for 1 pound per month then applied for court to make an order for the full amount and then assigned the debt to Phoenix Recoveries and now have an interim charging order made and are seeking to make this absolute at a hearing NEXT WEEK.

The Court would not entertain any defence and made it very difficult to speak when I tried to have the order returned to instalments.

I have learnt so much since finding this site and have followed some of the advice mainly requesting full disclosure under the Civil Procedure Rules. I have received some contemptuous responses from Weightmans but none of the requested documentation. They have only sent me a copy of the original Submission. They have said that "you are not entitled to file a defence and counterclaim as judgment has been obtained based upon your admission form signed and dated. We enclose a copy for your ease of reference."

The application to make the charging order absolute refers to the original order which was for instalments (which have been met) but they state that there was no installment order made. They also deny knowledge of other creditors when they do have a list of them all and so they have not included this info on their application.

I have tried to research as much of the law as I can but sometimes I am overwhelmed. I need to fight this and learn to defend myself after being battered mercilessly by these companies when I thought there was nothing I could do.

I think my local court is unwilling to hear me and I think I should ask for the whole matter to be revisited by the court to give me an opportunity to defend.

Should I:

(a) file an application on form 244 and ask the original court to hear my argument .

(b) should I base my argument on Humbleman’s argument ?

© is there something else I can do.

(d) any advice please!

Yours can’t sleep, can’t eat!

[surfaceagentx20]

You are going to need to straighten your instructions out and clarify some of what you say in order that we might be clear.

 

You say Weightmans sued you to judgment and you say you had a court orer to pay this judgment at the rate of £1.00 pcm. You then say, as I understand you, that afterwards Weightman's returned to court and managed to overturn the instalment order so that the entire balance of the judmgent was payable immediately. After that, weightmans assigned the benefit of the judgment to Phoenix.

 

Since taking an assignment, Phoenix have applied for and obtained an interim charging order which is due to be heard next week. You say the application for a charging order refers to the instalment order but somehow goes on to say an instalment order was never made. do you mean the original instalment order has been cancelled and replaced with an order requiring payment immediately? Please clarify precisely what the posirtion is in relation to the existence or non-existence of a current instalment order.

 

Once that side of the business is cleared up we can move on to look at other aspects.

 

Additionally, today you appear to wish to defend the claim and to counterclaim. When was the judgment obtained? Why did you not defend and counterclaim when the proceedings were first begun? What is the nature of the defence and counterclaim you wish to prosecute?

 

x20

[nosewheel]

Apologies for delay (I have to use my brothers computer). Thank you for your reply.

 

The application for the charging order quotes the original order for installments under the same court number and date (march 2008 ) ,In March Northampton CC made an Order for installments of £1 per month. In June my local court made an Order for the full amount and I was told by the CCC that this would not happen as I had submitted my expenditure form and it demonstrated I could not pay more. It did happen, so I wrote to the court and attended a hearing but the judge refused to listen. He said that the claimant was right installments of £1 per month were ridiculous and he was not changing his mind. I pointed out that I had paid the installments of £1 every month and not missed any payments. He said You haven’t got an order for installments and would not let me show him it. I referred to my other debts and asked how these could not be relevant to the application for a charging order and he said he wasn't interested in them, I also quoted Mercantile Credit case and he simply dismissed any relevance it had. On reflection I think the court had already given the green light to the claimant for a charging order. The claimant had previously written to me and asked for a voluntary Charge which I ignored.

 

The present application to make the Charging Order absolute does not refer to any other order (which I have not had either) referring to the full amount, but the Judge said on the day that he was upholding his decision (in my absence) to make the order for the full amount and that my appeal therefore was dismissed. This application for next weeks hearing, quotes the Northampton Claim Number and the date of that first case and I am holding that in my hand now and it clearly says Judgment for the plaintiff by installments of £1 per month beginning April 2008.

 

I don't blame you for seeking clarification as it is not entirely clear to me.

 

Before I found this web site I was following the advice of CCC who told me to write to all my creditors and send an expenditure form and make the installments offers. I new that thousands of pounds of the combined debts were charges and fees, but CCC didn't offer any advice on this. I had no-one else to turn to and could do no more than try and deal with it all under the CCC advice. looking at this web site I now realise I could have defended the claim. I didn't want to lose my home and burden my family. I didn't know how else to handle it.

 

It now seems that it is never going to end and they'll keep coming until me and my family are on the street with nothing.

 

 

 

I have written to Weightmans asking for all the statements , the credit agreement etc etc and they have not given me anything. They said they have nothing more than the basic information about he debt but they will ask their client but that they don’t acknowledge any right to ask for the info either under the Data Protection Act or the Civil Procedure Rules.

 

I was going to make a form N244 application to the original court at Northampton to challenge the debt and thereby have the hearing next week stayed until the outcome.

 

Incidentally, I asked about the right of appeal against the Local Courts decision when I was in front of the judge as he was so dismissive not even willing to consider a different monthly amount. He said I would need his permission to appeal and he wasn't giving it so I could not appeal.

 

I understand if it is now too complicated to try and advise me.

 

Thank you, T

[popeye1]

How do we make unaware judges aware

[nosewheel]

Hello Folks,

If they can't produce the credit agreement are they barred from any type of enforcement, whether that be to order the full amount, instalments or a charge on the house?

Can anyone advise me please? How do I go about raising things like the above and also:

1. The amount claimed - which definitely includes about 10 years of unlawful charges.

2. The unlawful charges that were applied in the years going back beyond the six years which can form the subject of a claim. If the amount claimed has 6 yrs of reclaimable charges and about 4 years of unlawful charges which though un-claimable are still unlawful and should not be part of the lawful claim sum? It seems to me that the two amounts fall under different jurisdiction, in that one part is reclaimable under the law however the earlier years (prior to 6 years) are equally unlawful and therefore not owed and should not be lawfully reclaimable? I make this point as I notice that under the Civil Procedure Rules you can ask for the full breakdown of the claim from the point of the credit agreement onwards. Do they have to show that the amount claimed is actually the amount owed.

3. If the amount is wrong from the outset and the claimant cannot produce the lawfully required documents or indeed refuse to respond to requests for these then what is the status of any judgment which has been granted upon the basis of an unproven claim coupled with an industry which flouts the rules and regulations openly, yet which bind the defendants so absolutely with devastating results.

4. What would a properly constructed complaint to the Judiciary hierarchy bring? Do defendants have a right to a fair hearing say under the human rights act? Does the fact that Judges appear to be unaware of the issues raise the right to specialist courts for fair trial? How does one fight this?

5. If a credit agreement is unsecured, the terms reflect this. Interest is justified higher because it is not secured. They charge a high rate of interest because they calculate the risk on an unsecured loan. How can it then become secured through such an unfair process? When a person takes out an unsecured loan or credit facility, the joint owner does not have any input or right with regard to that transaction. If however it benefited from say, the lower interest and longer terms offered when it is secured, ALL interested parties must sign under deed. Therefore the RISK taken by ALL parties is understood at the outset. How therefore can such a huge undertaking by a property owner (to secure something against there most important asset) be bypassed in this way, and without a specialist judge to at least uphold the law, regulations and rules?

I have just 7 days to take an appropriate course of action. Can anyone please help!

Best regards

T

[surfaceagentx20]

Pops - Is it any wonder? Unaware judges made aware of what exactly?

 

Nose - The creditor's rights under the agreement have now merged with the judgment and their powers stem from the judgment, not the agreement. A failure to deliver a copy of the agreement today would not serve to prevent enforcement of the judgment.

 

As for questions 1-3, these relates to issues which may have been advanced in your defence. If a defence was advanced evidently the defence was rejected. If one was not and you wish to do so now, you will need to demonstate why you seek to defend six or more months after being served with the proceedings and the events which have followed. I regret to say I tink you may struggle with such a hurdle.

 

As for question 4, if your complaint is that Judge failed to give due weight to evidence, showed bias and things of that nature, the proper course is to appeal. If your complaint is non-judicial he was rude, offensive and so on, refer the matter in the first instance to the Presiding Judge of whichever Circuit the court in question comes under.

 

As for question 5, I appreciate all that you say. However the terms of the unsecured loan were breached and accordingly you were sued to judgment. Many judgments, many of them lacking security from the outset, are secured by charging orders. The question is whether having secured the judgment by charging order, the creditor should then be permitted to compel a sale. That question is decided by the court too, when other, quite different considerations are brought into play.

 

x20

[popeye1]

What i ment ,that some judges seem to waive you aside without given us a fair chance to defend .I have had a judge who admitted he was not familar with CCA 1974 and now have to go to a second hearing.My fault for not speaking strong enough at the first hearing,better at the next i hope,sorry nosewheel to but in like this,good luck