Redetermination Hearing - Help Please

[sapphire20]

Hello everyone, i'm new here and am totally lost with all that is going on.

 

History - All was going really well and I had never had any problems paying back credit until the Tax Credits people made an error and told me I owed £7000 in 2002. They then stopped my tax credit (£200 per week) and sent us spiralling out of control. Our bad luck didn't stop there, my partner was then made redundant for a period of time making things even worse. We used credit cards to live, accruing debts to the tune of about £50,000.

 

Since then, we have struggled to keep our heads above water, including selling our house and buying a cheaper one, selling our cars and buying one to share etc.

 

I have since negotiated agreements with most of our creditors and we pay between £10 and £20 per month to each of them. We have been issued with 2 CCJ's however, for an egg loan of £20,00 and an Egg Credit Card debt that we were unable to maintain payments on. We now also pay £10 per month of each of those.

 

Due to bank charges and the inability to get out of our overdraft, we opened a basic bank account with another bank as the TSB were taking anything up to £350 a month in fees. Due to the time it took in swapping over to the other bank we missed 2 of the agreed payments to the creditos. Now most of them were absolutely fine about it and let us resume payments, but Phoenix Recoveries Limited (acting on behalf of Weightmans Solicitors who were dealing with Marbles Credit Card (HFC Bank)) sent out a Court Claim form. The debt is for £3,740.94 including fees now accrued. I filled in the income and expense bit and sent it off.

 

I should mention that I have 5 children ranging in ages from 17 down to 2 and I am long term incapacitated so can't work.

 

The judgment for claimant then came back saying I had to pay £330.80 a month back to them. I was then sent into ablind panic as there is absolutely no way on earth I can afford that. We barel;y have enough to feed us some months and rely on my Mum to buy shopping sometimes!

 

I rang the court and asked what to do next and he told me to send a letter in asking for a Redermination, which I did.

 

I now have a date of 2nd October and a time of 10.30 in my local County Court.

 

After all that ramble, the question I am asking is what do I do now? And also what to expect and does anyone know the likely outcome? Do I have to take naything with me as all I have recieved is the letter with the date and time on it.

 

Oh I should also mention on the Appeal I offered to double my monthly payment to £20 per month and during all this I have still continued to pay Weightmans the £10 per month.

 

Any help would be very gratefully recieved. I have tried to deal withthings as best I can but now I feel like I am truly in over my head and just don't understand what to do.

[Satterthwaite]

Sapphire, The first thing to do is read as much as you can on this forum to educate yourself, plenty of people have been in your position and help can be sought on here.

With regards to Tax Credit they can’t just stop it all together no matter what you owe especially if it is their mistake, they have to claw it back at a rate that you can afford and over a long period so as not to leave you without the basic requirements.

Regarding your credit card debts make a list of who they are and how much you owe, it does not matter to us on here how much you owe that is for your benefit because the principles behind how to deal them are pretty much the same.

Redetermination? Not sure about that one I suspect there may be another plan of attack I am sure someone will advise on that.

Do not offer to pay more you can afford remember these are unsecured debts. Read as much as you can about the Consumer Credit Act I think it will help you.

Keep an eye on your thread if it starts to dissapear do not be shy in bumping it to the top there are plenty of people on here who will give you sound and advice and sincere help GOOD LUCK

[sapphire20]

Thank you very much for replying, I really appreciate it. The Tax Credit fiasco happened in 2002, so too late now to do anything about it, but at the time they just completely stopped my payments for a year, which is when the trouble started.

 

I've had a good read on the site and realise that maybe I need to send for SAR and CCA with the company, but with the hearing being on 2nd October the 40 days time scale they have is well beyond that. I got this card in 2005 so I wondered if it would qualify for the thing i've been reading about on here where the contract is wrong? Sorry, i'm really not up to speed on a lot of this and there is so much stuff it's very confusing. (Doesn't help when you have a poorly 2yr old tugging at your arm either!!)

 

Is there anything I can do to put back the hearing so I can get these documents together first? Anyone?

 

Thanks xx

[bazaar]

Sapphire dont worry, someone will be along shortly.

Yes you should CCA them, also if they have started court proceedings, then double this up with A CPR18 request, this essentially gives you proof that you have requested info for later on. Remember that the CCA is £1. so get a postal order and DO NOT SIGN ANYTHING you send to the other side (or should that be dark side) Good luck

[bazaar]

Also, the fact that your other creditors have accepted payments again after your problems, it doesn't put them in too good a light

[Multay]

Hi,

 

Here is the CCA letter...Don't sign it and remember to take a copy of it and also send it recorded delivery...

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re:−

 

With reference to the above agreement, I would be grateful if you would send me a copy of this credit agreement.

 

I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Sections 77−79), I am entitled to receive a copy of our credit agreement on request. I enclose a payment of £1.00 (Postal Order Number - ) which represents the fee payable under the Consumer Credit Act.

You are further notified that you are obliged to supply these documents, whether you are the original creditor or not under section 189 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

I understand a copy of our credit agreement should be supplied within 12 working days.

I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act creditors are unable to enforce an agreement if they fail to comply with a request for a copy of the agreement under these sections of the Act.

 

I look forward to hearing from you.

 

Yours faithfully

[Multay]

Here is the SAR....Same things as above - don't sign etc and remember your £10 postal order for this one....

 

[your address]

 

 

 

[their address]

 

 

[DATE]

 

 

Data Protection Act 1998

Subject Access Request

 

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: xxxxxxxxx (or multiple numbers if more than one account)

 

 

Please supply me with a complete list of transactions and charges relating to my banking history with your organisation. Alternatively, a complete set of statements for that period will be acceptable.

 

Additionally, where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any member of your staff, or any other person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my banking business with you.

 

If you are unable to supply this data because there has been no such manual intervention, then please be so kind as to confirm this in your response.

 

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply. Furthermore, if I discover that you have levied disproportionate penalties against me, then I shall be reclaiming them, and also reclaiming the enclosed £10 Data Protection Act subject access request fee.

 

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However, please note that the above address is the one which you normally use to communicate my private business to me and which you have hitherto found to be acceptable.

I would be happy to collect the Data from my local branch.

 

 

Yours faithfully,

 

[sapphire20]

Thank you both so much.

 

Multay, those letters are fab!! I have just printed them off and they are sitting in front of me. I will post them tomorrow when the Post Office next opens and I can buy the postal orders.

 

Bazaar, what is a CPR18 request and who do I send it to? The court or Phoenix Recoveries? Will this put back the date of the hearing giving me time to get the relevant documents together?

 

So sorry for all these questions, I am a total novice at all this and to be honest I had given up hope until I found this forum! I didn't realise there was anything we could do about our debts. This has given me new hope and for the first time in years there is a light at the end of the tunnel!!

 

I have been through the awful phone harrassment thing, where we were getting 20+ calls a day from morning until night and I had a new baby at the time so it was really terrible. I just wish I had found this site then.

 

Thank you all again for helping me, I hope I can do the same for someone else when I have learned from all of you.

 

Best regards

xx

[Multay]

Have you sent them the harrasment letter?

 

I don't have it at the moment but I'll post it up tomorrow and I'll try find the CPR18 letter for you.

 

You need to send it to whomever the claimant is, not the court.

 

Bear in mind that they may ignore it though....

Edited September 17, 2008 by Multay
spelling

[bazaar]

Hi Saphire

Multay has it all in hand as regards letters, all you're doing at this stage is letting the other side know that you are looking into their dealings with you more deeply than they would probably like. Also, when you get to the court stage, If they don't comply with your perfectly reasonable AND legal, requests for information, you can ask the court to order them to, which will give you a little more time at least.

You are requesting the information in case they have added illegal penalties and fees, so this will give you something to counterclaim with at court, in all likelyhood, their fees add up to quite a bit, so you'd be able to negotiate a lower payment. Don't be intimidated by these people, its all a big game to them, they get paid regardless. If they can con you into paying more than you or your family can afford, they don't care. If you receive any calls, tell them in writing only, but log the times and dates, this helps the harrassment part. chin up

[sapphire20]

Thanks again guys,

 

I found the CRP18 letter and did it to the card in question as well as to another one. Along with the CCE's and S.A.R.

 

I guess it's just sit tight now then and wait for my day in court?

 

Thanks again xxx

[sapphire20]

ps... I am still paying them both £10 per month, should I carry on or stop this?

[bazaar]

Hi Sapphire

Well, you're not too far from a hearing, so stopping payment now, possibly wouldn't be in your favour. As long as you can afford it. You need to be seen as being as reasonable as possible, stopping 1 or 2 payments wouldn't help.

If they dont respond to your CCA request however, after 12 +2 days, you are perfectly entitled to withold payment until they do comply.

[sapphire20]

Well it's all hitting the fan now, seems like I was too late with the other claim I mentioned. I faxed the Acknowledgement of Service back to the court but it was over the 14 days and it's too late! I've now received a Judgment for Claimant in default and have to pay £3885.21 within the month or they will come and take goods.

 

I have posted a new thread entitled No No No! with more details.

 

I'm beside myself to be honest.

[gizmo111]

The judgment for claimant then came back saying I had to pay £330.80 a month back to them. I was then sent into ablind panic as there is absolutely no way on earth I can afford that. We barel;y have enough to feed us some months and rely on my Mum to buy shopping sometimes!

 

I rang the court and asked what to do next and he told me to send a letter in asking for a Redermination, which I did.

 

I now have a date of 2nd October and a time of 10.30 in my local County Court.

 

 

What did you put in the original expenditure form you sent to the court - did you have a large surplus for the £330 to be determined? Why has the court date been cancelled? Can you keep your case in one thread so we know the full story.

Edited September 20, 2008 by gizmo111

[sapphire20]

Sorry Gizmo, i've confused things a bit haven't I?

 

This thread is about one claim and the other thread is about one I didn't reply to in time. So 2 claims in total.

 

The one on this thread is dealing with HFC Bank which was a Marbles Credit Card. I returned the income and expenditure form showing a deficit, but when the court decision came back they were ordering me to pay £330 a month. I rang the court and the man I spoke to told me to put in an appeal letter and ask for a redetermination hearing. I did so, and THAT is the hearing on 2nd October.

 

I was asking for adivce re that on this thread.

 

However, since doing that I have now recieved a Judgment in Default for a store card I had for JJB Sports (Creation Financial) saying I have to pay over £3000 within a month. I've had some personal problems lately and I just ignored the court papers to be honest. Byt the time I found this forum and realised what i'd done it was too late to act on that one.

 

Am I confusing you more???

[sapphire20]

Hi again,

 

Well I have just received this reply from Weightmans. So where to now please if anyone can help?? My court date is 2nd October, which is NEXT Thursday, so if anyone can advise me of what I do next i'd be very grateful Should I have told the court anything or do I just turn up?

 

Thanks x

 

[sapphire20]

ps...they don't mention anything about the redetermination hearing, is that strange? From what I understand of the letter they seem to be implying that it is all cut and dried??

 

Help please?

[bazaar]

Hi Sapphire, so they've just played with words, their last paragraph states that they will get the documents. Keep the letter for redetermination, but make sure you say at court that they appear to be frustrating your attempts to obtain a true breakdown of what they originally claimed for, also, that you feel there are illegal penalties charged on the original sum, so you would,'Respectfully' ask the court to order that they provide the information requested so that you may make a counterclaim, if required. You were originally 'naive' and you were not sure what to do, but now you need the proof that there was indeed such a huge amount outstanding. You might get a telling off if you didnt originally defend this, but if the judge is reasonable, he should be on your side.

Someone with more knowledge on here, may wish to add something at this stage.

[sapphire20]

Thanks for your speedy response Bazaar. On further reading, I have seen several people mention something about not owing the debt to the DCA? Well this is for a Credit Card from HFC, I don't have any agreement with Phoenix Recoveries do I? How does that work?

 

D x

[bazaar]

Well, they have to refer back to the original creditor in most cases, because a lot of these Debt recovery firms, buy the debts from the banks and credit card companies etc.. They mostly hope to get payments by scaring you out of your wits, or in your case, going to court and hoping you don't turn up and defend. then they get what they asked for from the court. BUT, you are now better informed by way of this site, so you WILL be fighting back won't you??

You have made perfectly legal requests for information, if they fail to produce, then they are frustrating your quest for the correct information, It is very much a big game for the DCA's. But you have a few aces on this site which will help you in the end game.. Sorry for the gambling references, but that's my vice. Chin up:D

[sapphire20]

Thanks again Bazaar, i'm just panicking with the court date being next Thursday and I haven't really got a clue what to say. I like being prepared usually, but I admit to having buried my head a bit over my finances, hoping it would all go away. *sigh* Now it's payback time, in more ways than one I fear!

 

But you are right, if I can fight this then I will, but I DO need help...LOTS of help!!!

[looloo200]

application notice

[Multay]

Thanks again Bazaar, i'm just panicking with the court date being next Thursday and I haven't really got a clue what to say. I like being prepared usually, but I admit to having buried my head a bit over my finances, hoping it would all go away. *sigh* Now it's payback time, in more ways than one I fear!

 

But you are right, if I can fight this then I will, but I DO need help...LOTS of help!!!

 

Chin up kid...you're fighting and that's all that matters...Good luck

[sapphire20]

application notice

 

Hi looloo, what does this mean please?

 

Thanks D x