Alternative to Clamping. A landowners view

[Guest pdyke14856]

I have a problem. I have a problem whereby even though I own parking for my small business, and even though there are private signs everywhere asking people not to park in my parking spaces and my access inconsiderate people continue to do so.

 

In addition to all of the costly signs I have put up and had ignored and the damage which is done to my property, I cannot park outside my 'area' otherwise I will be clamped by the company next door.

 

I have considered renting the space to a clamping company, but personally I am against that as it ways of controlling parking. Previously a dividing wall had been put in place but vandals damaged that, it's a very costly issue. As it's affecting my business in terms of deliveries, access and customer access what do I do?:-|

 

So I have been considering the following Parking Control Notices as a way of protecting my land. As some of you seem so knowledgable at being able to illegally park where you like and stuff the consequences. Would this be something I could implement on my land or would I become 'one of those evil landowners' you so seem to despise?

 

 

Is your trade adversely affected through non-customers parking on your private land and preventing your customers from doing so?

 

Do you have problems with parked vehicles on your land, blocking your right of way so you have difficulty entering and exiting your property?

 

If you are a private or commercial land owner and need a fast, easy, non-confrontational parking enforcement solution without the hassle of obtaining a Security Industry Authority (SIA) licence, then our self ticketing Parking Charge Notice (PCN) system is ideal for you.

Self Ticketing Pack

 

 

Advantages of our PCN system

 

Unlike wheel clamping, parking control through the issue of PCNs to vehicles parked illegally on private land does not require a licence from the SIA. The PCN self ticketing system is ethical, lawful, cost effective, fully enforceable, and an extremely efficient method of eliminating illegal parking on your land.

 

Ticketing is a far less confrontational method of parking enforcement than wheel clamping, whilst still highly effective.

 

In addition to solving your parking control issues, for every paid parking ticket issued by you, you will receive £15 in compensation from the collected ticket payment. If you recommend a friend or neighbour and they use our service, you’ll receive £5 for every paid ticket they issue too, and there is no limit to the number of recommendations you can make.

 

Our convenient online facilities allow you to upload the details of newly issued tickets and check the status of existing tickets.

 

Step by Step Guide to NPC Self TicketingOur self ticketing system explained in five simple steps.

 

Step 1 - Register to become an agent

 

Simply click on the Order link on our home page and choose the package most suitable for you. All our packs contain warning signs, parking permits, and parking charge notices. Full support from our enforcement office and £15 compensation per paid ticket are included in all our packs.

 

Once your order has been placed we will send out your PCN pack along with a user name and password for use of our online facilities. There you can upload the details of newly issued tickets and view the status existing tickets.

 

Step 2 - Display warning signs in prominent positions

 

Display the warning signs included in your PCN pack prominently in the area where you will be issuing parking tickets.

We recommend you display signage at the entrance and then spaced out evenly within the parking area every 10 yards or so.

 

Step 3 - Issue permits to legitimate users of your land

 

Your PCN pack contains permits for you to issue to personnel authorised to park on your land to display in their cars.

 

Step 4 - Issue parking tickets to offending vehicles

 

Fill out a parking charge notice and attach to the illegally parked car using the waterproof sleeves provided.

We highly recommend you take a photograph of the offending vehicle if possible to help resolve any disputes later.

 

Step 5 - Send us the yellow copy in the post or download info via our web site

 

Simply send us the yellow copy of the ticket in the post, or upload the details online.

 

It is very important that you either send the yellow copy of the PCN in the post or you download the PCN information under your account details at [EDIT], so that we can process the penalty and follow through with any necessary legal action.

 

[EDIT]

Edited September 16, 2008 by Rooster-UK
Unauthorised links removed.

[Bookworm]

I think you are confused, it's not the "evil landowners" who are despised, it's the PPC which use the kind of enforcement methods you have displayed above, which appear to be some kind of police/council official paperwork when it is in fact nothing of the sort and very unlikely to be as lawful as they make it out to be.

 

How about a token barrier? One of bank's branches has that, the sensor lets you in, but if you want out, you have to have obtained the token from inside the shop. Ethical, lawful, and few people voluntarily drive through barriers. Ok, there'll be an outlay, but I understand that your aim is to make room for your customers and yourself, not to make a profit from your parking spaces, right? ;-)

 

BTW, you have the choice of removing those commercial links in your post yourself or have the Site Team do it for you. If I were you, I'd do it myself. ;-)

[couldthisbereal]

Ermmmm .. Is this the company you are thinking of using ?

 

I am no expert, but the signs state "FIXED PENALTY CHARGE" and the tickets "FIXED PENALTY NOTICE" .....

 

Terms such as PCN !

 

 

This is another loony company like the one who claim to have ticketed me !

[Guest pdyke14856]

Yes I am thinking of using this. Otherwise I just let the clamping company do their thing.

 

Last month so many cars parked on our property I was unable to take a delivery and my girlfriend with my daughter had to wait one hour before someone came back and moved their car. When told this was private parking and the myraid of signs pointed out, the answer was a resounding '**** off, I can park anywhere I like'. Personally I dont feel a smal fine was good enough for this ****.

 

Maybe a poster from this site?

[Genepool1]

Personally I dont feel a smal fine was good enough for this ****.

 

Maybe a poster from this site?

 

Oh dear you are letting your very unsubtle pretence slip, latest PPC troll. Looking at your other rabid posts it is clear you have an agenda which is a cigarette paper away from the false and robbing PPC agenda. The only **** in this are the PPCs who lie, cheat and threaten their way to ill gotten gains from people who work for a living, not try to make it off other people's backs.

[Bookworm]

Now that last comment just pushed you from someone with a different opinion into the trolling behaviour you denied in other threads. You are clearly just trying to get a rise out of other posters.

 

I gave you an alternative in my previous post and you have ignored it completely.

 

As for the behaviour exhibited by the bloke as described, of course it's not acceptable. But are you honestly telling me that you believe this to be the usual standard of all drivers who get clamped/issued notices? You come here and make inflammatory comments and assumptions about someone who get clamped is obviously also a litterer, and now this outrageous comment?

 

Let's make one thing clear: Whether you like it or not, whether you are the wronged party or not, 2 wrongs don't do a right, and clampers or other PPCs MUST operate within the law or face refunding the more knowledgeable people. That's the bottom line of it, and you can rage at it, insult, rail and bait users of this site all you like, that won't change a thing. Get used to it, honey. ;-)

[My Real Name]

Stick up signs. Big signs. Giant, can't miss 'em, in your face, [edited] sized signs.

 

Signs that say "If you park here without my permission, you consent to being clamped or towed".

 

Alternatively, stick up a barrier.

 

The "tickets" are unsolicited invoices, and a waste of paper.

 

Maybe a poster from this site?

 

Don't be trite - You demean youself.

Edited September 16, 2008 by jonni2bad

[Guest pdyke14856]

Yes, A token barrier Bookworm, what a fantastic expensive suggestion. Its also a shared access point.

 

I have a different view from yourselves, and hence I am a troll.

 

Your actions affect other people, think about it.

[Mossycat]

Would it not be possible to chain the private land off, either from wall to wall or by fitting some metal fence posts, then a padlock.

 

Add a notice to the wall saying this land is private and any vehicles parked here without consent are liable to be locked in (release fee £xx), or if after a certain time will not be released until the following day.

 

I know it will have a cost implication (chain, padlock, maybe some fence posts), but it's cheaper than a barrier and sometimes the visual effect of seeing something like that is enough to deter people.

 

Mossy

[Al27]

OP - you are actually probably committing an offence by giving out 'penalty charges' and getting into bed with that company is paramount to becoming involved in a mafia protection racket.

 

Not to mention that it is fairly immoral to trick people into paying an invoice they are under no legal obligation to.

 

You need to devise a sign which actually talks to people like adults and explains the reasons why they shouldn't talk there without threatening them with a big stick. Put your name on it - people don't like to act inconsiderately towards an actual person, yet they aren't bothered by a faceless threatening organisation.

After all, people park on land patrolled by private companies all the time, so it obviously doesn't work.

[Guest pdyke14856]

Would it not be possible to chain the private land off, either from wall to wall or by fitting some metal fence posts, then a padlock.

 

Add a notice to the wall saying this land is private and any vehicles parked here without consent are liable to be locked in (release fee £xx), or if after a certain time will not be released until the following day.

 

I know it will have a cost implication (chain, padlock, maybe some fence posts), but it's cheaper than a barrier and sometimes the visual effect of seeing something like that is enough to deter people.

 

Mossy

 

Actually Mossy, thats what I've costed for and for those who who then spend the time to go around that, or damage it I was going to use the Ticketing system outlined in the thread. Going to cost around £400 to do.

 

As said, I dont like clamping, but there does need to be a warning and a penalty assigned(ie. you accept a legal contract by parking there)

[patdavies]

Before you sign-up with this shower, I would make a three points.

 

1) In the photograph, the supplied sign uses the phrase "Fixed Penalty Charge". Case law provides that a private company cannot charge a penalty. This the notice is void and unenforceable.

 

2) In the photograph, the envelopes for the tickets state "Fixed Penalty Notice". The same applies as (1) above,

 

3) In the 'helpful' information section of thier website, they have the following.

 

Under the Road Traffic Act 1991, the owner of a vehicle is liable for the parking charge when a Parking Charge Notice is issued to a vehicle.

The owner may or may not be the person who was actually driving at the time. If, for example, your partner, family member or colleague is driving the vehicle, this does not mean that you have stopped being the owner.

 

This is true as far as the (now-redundant) RTA 1991 applies. However, the RTA does not apply in any way, shape or form to private parking. Penalty Charge Notices can only be issued by (or on behalf) of a council in the enforcement of decriminalised Parking - where such a reginm exists.

 

Again case law, makes the enforcement of private parking a matter of contract (rather than damages for trespass); a contract can only be enterd into by the driver at the time and they cannot bind the RK to any contract as a third party (Privity of Contract).

 

The PPC can apply to the DVLA for details of the RK only. The DVLA have no details at all about either the owner or the driver. The RK is not obliged to provide the name and details of the driver.

 

Their process is so flawed as to be laughable. Signing up with these clowns is ony going to bring aggravation.

[patdavies]

Add a notice to the wall saying this land is private and any vehicles parked here without consent are liable to be locked in (release fee £xx), or if after a certain time will not be released until the following day.

 

This still qualifies a vehicle immobilisation and requires an SIA licence.

 

Case law is that once there is an offer of the release fee, the vehicle must be released promptly. It cannot be held immobilised beyond payment for release

[couldthisbereal]

Actually Mossy, thats what I've costed for and for those who who then spend the time to go around that, or damage it I was going to use the Ticketing system outlined in the thread. Going to cost around £400 to do.

 

As said, I dont like clamping, but there does need to be a warning and a penalty assigned(ie. you accept a legal contract by parking there)

 

 

£400 to set up a with a PPC, even Perky does not charge (and although he has managed to get the wording right to avoid penalty and does not send notice to owners).

 

I think you may be connected with the PPC you are trying to advertise on here!!!

[Guest pdyke14856]

This still qualifies a vehicle immobilisation and requires an SIA licence.

 

Case law is that once there is an offer of the release fee, the vehicle must be released promptly. It cannot be held onto beyond payment for release

 

So what you're saying Pat is, that I should sign up the clamping company that clamped Mundane who have a SIA Licence. At which point, the challenge will be you cant see the signs!

 

Its not an easy solution is it?

[Bookworm]

Yes, A token barrier Bookworm, what a fantastic expensive suggestion. Its also a shared access point.

Then say so, don't just ignore it and go on the attack as you did.

 

I have a different view from yourselves, and hence I am a troll.

Nope. When you start saying things for no other purpose but to cause angry reactions, then you become one. Your first posts were reasonable-ish enough, your last accusations are not and do nothing to make your argument plausible or reasonable.

 

Your actions affect other people, think about it.

MY actions? If you mean parking, honey, I don't think so. I have never been clamped, the only parking tickets I ever got were legitimate - again, -ish in some cases - but always issued by people who have the legal right to issue them, and not many of them in any case.

 

You are however STILL avoiding the painful truth: If clampers and PCC want to make legitimate money, they have to act within the laws and regulations set within their industry. It applies to everyone and every company, and this forum is proud to help the consumer fight back: From a retailer which refuses to honour SOGA to the banks and their excessive charges, from illegal clampers to pushy salesmen, from bully boss to dodgy builders, we help fight them all because they do not operate within the law. Yes, my actions affect other people, damn right and I am damn proud of it too.

[Guest pdyke14856]

£400 to set up a with a PPC, even Perky does not charge (and although he has managed to get the wording right to avoid penalty and does not send notice to owners).

 

I think you may be connected with the PPC you are trying to advertise on here!!!

 

Read the thread. No £400 to put up chains and posts.

[couldthisbereal]

You did not make that clear.

I still smell a rat (or troll).

[lamma]

why not go with the self ticket system so prominently advertised in the first post ? as long as you don't mind being party to activities that are both unlawful and illegal that is. Or you could try using a solution that is neither illegal nor unlawful (gates, tokens, intercoms etc). It is your land so the responsibility is yours, as the landowner you will be liable if the solution is not both legal and lawful. There are loads of companies out there providing solutions which are both. If you can't tell good solutions from the clearly illegal one in the first post then perhaps seek advice from one of the specialised solicitors. Whichever one you go for remember 'caveat emptor'. As landowner you will still have liabilities and claiming you were misled by a dodgy PPC won't help you.

[Adenuff]

Taking the original post at face value (which may be naive bearing in mind some subsequent virulent comments) then I have some sympathy with the OP's problem. I run a business which also has similar problems and experience being blocked in, in my own car-park.

 

There is no simple solution but it is a fact that the proposal above (and I am not suggesting this is true of all schemes) fails in law. You cannot issue "penaltys" and then expect people who understand the legal position to pay them or cop the hump when they dont.

[Jaffa_Cake77]

The simple answer is to get a clamping^h^h^h^h^h^h parking management company in.

Why?

 

• Barriers will be expensive and hinder genuine customers
  
• Signs are clearly not working and need to be backed up with action (as the accountants office proved)
  
• The land is obviously private and not public parking. Any normal human being could tell by looking at it that parking there incurs a risk.
  

I live in a block of flats near some shops. The car park we have has limited space, is private and is signed that illegal parking will result in cars being clamped.

Unfortunately the management company for the building don't enforce the rule (probably from past action from readers of boards like this). Result: Car park full of non-residents.

 

Given that the accountants have seen a huge reduction in the number of cars being parked on their property I can only suggest that you contact whichever company they are using and ask for the protection to be extended to your land as well.

 

Even if the illegal parkers can get their money back. So what? the inconvience caused might make them think twice in future.

[Genepool1]

Personally I dont feel a smal fine was good enough for this ****.

 

Maybe a poster from this site?

 

(probably from past action from readers of boards like this)

 

illegally parked

 

illegal parking will result in cars being clamped.

Even if the illegal parkers can get their money back

Great minds think alike, trolls seldom differ.

[lamma]

'illegal parkers' ? what law would be being broken exactly ? As a first time poster you may not be familiar with the legal requirements, have a look at the stickies. you are correct they can get their money back but having done it once it will much less effort for them to keep getting it back, all they have to is change the dates and send off the letters and file the forms. and each and every time they do it they build up a weight of evidence that the car park is being operated improperly, which could be both unlawful and illegal depending how how dodgy the clampers are. as the landowner is also liable (and will be party in all the claims) this seems a risky way to go. the reason the management company cannot enforce is not past actions of people here - that argument holds no water at all. The law will be relevant to this, much mentioned here and in other places.

[Jaffa_Cake77]

'illegal parkers' ? what law would be being broken exactly ? As a first time poster you may be familiar with the legal requirements, have a look at the stickies. you are correct they can get their money back but having done it once it will much less effort for them to keep getting it back, all they have to is change the dates and send off the letters and file the forms. and each and every time they do it they build up a weight of evidence that the car park is being operated improperly, which could be both unlawful and illegal depending how how dodgy the clampers are. as the landowner is also liable (and will be party in all the claims) this seems a risky way to go. the reason the management company cannot enforce is not past actions of people here - that argument holds no water at all. The law will be relevant to this, much mentioned here and in other places.

 

So in the meantime what consolation is that to me?

I get home from work and can't park in a car park which I'm legally entitled to use

Building management company seem to have their hands tied and have given up on managing the car park (its a shame really cause they are pretty good at looking after the rest of the property)

 

We did look at the barrier/gate entry system, but they are expensive to buy and given the smallish number of flats (6) the cost per resident meant that it was ruled out.

 

Gene, Hi

Not sure what you mean :-|

[Guest pdyke14856]

I find this site incredible. An excuse, squirm and wriggle for everything. Of course their is illegal activity of companies who are trying to make extra money, but this isnt the case here. Of course, you're all whiter than white.

 

Legitimate landowners find themselves at the mercy of arrogant and inconsiderate freeloaders who want to 'save a quid' by not paying for a carpark or parking in a proper bay. The comments on this site remind me of unruly children who cock a snoop at authority with their 'we know the law' attitude.

 

If you cant stand being clamped, or towed or 'fined' for inconsiderate behaviour then don't park on other peoples property.