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    • Hi BankFodder, Thank you so much for taking the time to answer to my case. I have to say I always found great pleasure on reading eloquent mind like yours. Unfortunately my english is not by far as good as yours and I think few sentences on my previous paragraph might have been mistaken. Apologies for that. I write in a rush, between one task and another, with two children grabbing my attention all the time, but you are right I should have taken more time to read through your forum. I did read though many of the cases reported (you see I don't even put the space in between the paragraph as you suggested to help people reading on small screen) and the only reasons I stated the 3 points in my second message is to tell you what is the position they have taken. I had read already about the insurance in your forum as well as the amount declared, but I was just reporting my case to you to have a full picture. It was naive indeed saying that the value of my items were £500, my bad. But I haven't changed the value 3 times like you mentioned. I firstly declared £500 when I paid for the service and then I declared £1200 when I filed for the small claim court (and recap all the evidence in my possess), so to them I actually just change the value once. Nevertheless my only worry was the fact that I had signed a contract with them where they stated (as reported in my previous message) they won't pay more than £300. But if you say that it's anyway their negligence of having lost my parcel (and of course I agree with you!), I am happy to refuse their offer and see where this is going. The parcel is lost and with it a lot of sentimental stuff, I guess I would feel better if I knew there was a bit of a fairer judgment. Although naive, I know that my actions were and are in good faith, I am not sure I can say the same about them. P.S. I also did claim interest when file for small claim court. One more thing, if this is going to court, do I need to get myself a lawyer?   Many thanks again for your help.   Kind regards, Anturia
    • I don't think so. The information is supposed to be incorporated as part of the manufacturing process.   Most of the providers who flout these regulations get away with it because they say that their produce is a "show plate." Those producing legal plates are registered with the DVLA and will insist on ownership documentation. Here's some FAQs from a legit supplier:   Frequently Asked Questions - UK Registrations (ukregplates.co.uk)   A couple of those questions and answers: Do your number plates include your legal details? / Are your number plates road-legal? All of our number plates feature the required legal markings. This means that the text "PLATE FINDER SM1 4NG" will be shown on the bottom centre of the plate and "BSAU 145d" will be shown on the bottom right of the plate. This text allows the relevant authorities to find out which company produced the number plates if required. Do you require documentation? As a DVLA registered number plate supplier, we have to request documents that prove your identity and that you can use the registration number. We understand this is a slight inconvenience, but do our best to ensure sending documents to us is made as simple as possible. Be aware of other suppliers that do not request these documents, as it may suggest the replacement number plates they are producing are not road legal. [my highlighting]   When sending in documents we require one of each of the following: To confirm your identity driving licence utility, Council Tax or rates bill from the last 6 months bank or building society statement from the last 6 months national identity card To confirm you can use the registration vehicle registration certificate (V5C or V5CNI) new keeper supplement (V5C/2 or V5C/2NI) of entitlement (V750 or V750NI) to the number retention document (V778) - not applicable in Northern Ireland a renewal reminder for vehicle tax or SORN (V11 or V11NI) temporary registration certificate (V379 or V379NI) a number plate authorisation certificate (V948) with an official stamp from the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA) or Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency (DVSA) an electronic number plate authorisation certificate (eV948) a letter of authorisation from a fleet operator (including lease or hire company) quoting the document reference number from the registration certificate This is a link to the DVLA's register of authorised number plate suppliers:   Find your nearest number plate supplier - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)   If you wanted street legal plates it seems you may have done your money.  
    • I've come up with a fairly detailed statement.    it seems to me that I could reasonable argue that the school provided half (or whatever) of the services they were supposed to, so I should pay half.   The question is should I just put that sort of reasoning (admission?) in my statement? Or, should I be concentrating on asking them to prove their agreement with me? 
    • Are these plates ‘special’ (to be £60, instead of £30-odd)?   If so, what ‘special feature(s)” do they have?
    • you've already dealt with the DN issue  ignore cohens they haven't a clue just trying to harass and intimidate 
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    • Hi @BankFodder
      Sorry for only updating you now, but after your guidance with submitting the claim it was pretty straight forward and I didn't want to unnecessarily waste your time. Especially with this guide you wrote here, so many thanks for that
      So I issued the claim on day 15 and they requested more time to respond.
      They took until the last day to respond and denied the claim, unsurprisingly saying my contract was with Packlink and not with them.
      I opted for mediation, and it played out very similarly to other people's experiences.
      In the first call I outlined my case, and I referred to the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 as the reason to why I do in fact have a contract with them. 
      In the second call the mediator came back with an offer of the full amount of the phone and postage £146.93, but not the court costs. I said I was not willing to accept this and the mediator came across as a bit irritated that I would not accept this and said I should be flexible. I insisted that the law was on my side and I was willing to take them to court. The mediator went back to Hermes with what I said.
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CCa 1974 and credit cards

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Dear Sir,


Thank you for the reply to my letter dated XX/XX.2008.


Having taken the time to look over the documents supplied in response to my statutory request made under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, I have the following concerns.


The document entitled “credit card agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974” which appears to bear my signature fails to comply with the requirements of the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1557). In particular section 2 of the Regulations.


As you will be no doubt aware, the Copy Document Regulations requires that documents are easily legible and clearly the terms of the agreement are not easily legible, infact far from it. Many of the terms are blurred and cannot be interpreted and I am further unable to make out the prescribed terms as required by schedule 6 column 2 of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553). After taking advice on this matter, I am of the belief that this agreement that you have presented before me, as it stands would be unenforceable even by court order. Therefore, I require that you provide me a clearly legible copy of the agreement, where all the terms are clearly legible

Should you not be able to supply a clearly legible copy containing the necessary prescribed terms, I would suggest that you give consideration to cancelling this account and reducing the balance to zero. Of course the alternative would be to seek a declaration of my rights under Section 142(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. I am advised that with the documents that you have supplied there would be an extremely good prospect of success with such a declaration. However, I am mindful of additional costs that such action could incur both on my part and on yours so I trust you will give consideration to this request


I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter and look forward to hearing from you in writing.



Yours Sincerely







Please note opinions given by rory32 are offered informally as a lay-person in good faith based on personal experience. For legal advice, you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.

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Hi Jay – its fine but they know (and choose to ignore) their responsibilities under the act. Try something short and sweet like this -

Account Number xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Dear sir/madam:

Thank you for your reply to my request for a true copy of any alleged credit agreement regarding the above account. Unfortunately the copy you have sent is of a poor quality and illegible and therefore does not comply with my request.

This account will remain in dispute until such time as you supply me with a legible copy.

Yours faithfully,

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi again,, Thanks for the good advice so far. I sent the letter rory32 recomended they received it on 29 th Oct and no reply so far what next ??? what is the next step? Do i apply for the declaration in court? if so when is best. Also not had any reply or Cca from barclays what should i do there??

Edited by jayjay11
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Are you looking for judgement under s142 – I think it will cost you to do this and if they have the original you might be in trouble.

Why don’t you send them another letter asking them to make the original copy available for inspection at your local branch.

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No – but try this –

Dear Sir/Madam

Account Number xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

I wrote to you recently regarding the poor quality of the documents you have sent in response to my request for information under section 78 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. To ensure that this doesn’t happen again might I suggest that you arrange for the original document to be made available for inspection by me in person at my local branch.

Please advise me at your earliest convenience where and when the document will be available for inspection.

Yours faithfully,

Print don’t sign.

There should be no reason why they cannot comply unless of course they don’t have the original.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hey jayjay...


Sorry, this agreement looks enforceable to me to. A credit card requires the prescribed terms of credit limit, interest rates and payments. Although I agree the copy they have sent is a little fuzzy, I don't think a Judge would rule it to be illegible. The prescribed are clearly visible on the copy, albeit you have to squint to see it, but as this is a copy, you have to wonder what the original looks like. If the original is clearer, this argument will go out of the window. If you bring a claim based on this issue alone, you will lose if you go to Court and the original shows up. If it doesn't, that's a different story, but that is the punt you will have to decide if you want to take or not.


What are you trying to achieve, exactly? They haven't defaulted you, (yet!) but you are already on a reduced payment plan. Why are you not making those payments? If you can, I would, and continue to so long as they agree to not default you. Avoiding the default is important and I can't see how the issues you've highlighted here would prevent that from happening. Of course, if you can't afford those payments, that will mean a different tact to take.


Incidentally, have you sent a DPA SAR? This should reveal charges you could reclaim, which will reduce the debt and may even wipe it out. If there are charges, and they go on to default you with those included, you could manage to escape liability in that way.




- Are you prepared to take the risk of having a fully legible agreement?

- What are you trying to achieve?

- Avoid the default by any means necessary

- Get a SAR off, so if you are defaulted, you can be ahead of the game

Always happy to help where I can!


Beware of legal advice given on a private forum - do you REALLY know who is posting? Are they REALLY accountable for their posts? What if you follow their advice and get something wrong?

It was Winston Churchill who said; "Democracy is the worst way to run a country except for all the others"


Advice and comments posted by car2403 are offered purely without prejudice. They reflect only my personal opinion and do not represent the opinion of this forum or it's management. You should always seek legal advice from a qualified legal advisor. As a member of the site team, I disable reputation - reputation points mean nothing, please check my posting credentials yourself and make an informed decision. You shouldn't PM me and await a reply - I may be too late with a response. No replies will be given in Private Messages - just as with getting advice from the forum, getting advice via Private Messages is dangerous. CAG is about sharing successes so others can follow your example, this is primarily why I'm here, so please don't be offended if I don't offer replies in PM that doesn't comply with this. Help CAG to help others by keeping your thread up to date.



USEFUL LINKS; New User Guide to CAG | Can't find what you're looking for? | Intro to Consumer Credit Litigation | Is My Agreement Enforceable | Default (Surleybonds) Template Letter | Defaults - background, removal methods, challenges and taking a claim to Court | Digital Signature Guide | Overdrafts and the CCA

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Thanks for your reply :

I am wondering if they havent replied to my letter asking for the agreement to be produced at my local branch is a sign they may not have it??? surely they would want to be sure they had complied fully if they intended court action so would could be lost by producing it.

I will send a SAR off

I want to go as far down this path as pos to try to get them to show there hand if for instance they dont have the origanal agreement but how for to go? if things get sticky i could offer a F& F settlement but when? at the end of the day if the whole lot can be writen off then thats great we are talking about 6 k. Any advice / views would be great .

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Jayjay, having looked at your scans on page 2, something strikes me as odd - the first scan would seem to be an application form, but the second page containing the terms (which I'm presuming they are asserting is on the reverse of the first page, otherwise it would not be within the four corners of the agreement), states at the top 'Credit card conditions -bank copy'. Maybe I'm wrong, but this seems to be peculiar wording on an application form; surely you only have a bank copy where you also have a customer copy. Don't know about you, but I've never had a customer copy of a credit card application form:confused:

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Hi Everyone, I just foun dthis thread & am reading with great interest.


I Have a Credit Card Debt which I am trying to resolve its located in my own thread here if someone would care to look it over for me :-)




Many Thnaks,



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thanks for your reply maybe cus its monday morning....:-x but what are you getting at then??


What I'm getting at is I think they are pulling a fast one with the attached T&Cs - they do not seem to belong to a credit card application form. Have you ever seen an application form that says 'bank copy'? There isn't usually a specified 'bank copy' nor a specified 'customer copy' - there is (in my experience) one copy of the application form that is filled in, sent back and retained by the bank.

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Can anyone give advise /views where to go from here ? do i ned to reply to the letter they sent saying the account is in dispute and ask if they have the origonal agreement why i cant view it at my branch? or should i phone them ?


It's up to you how you choose to procede, but personally, I would write to them and ask to inspect the original document in a branch - if they refuse, demand a detailed explanation as to why not.

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It’s difficult to offer any more advice other than has already been offered. A lot depends on how far you personally want to go with it – if they tried to enforce this agreement in court would you be happy to defend? If it went to court and you lost could you live with the ccj?

Do they have the original? Asking them to produce it was a way of finding out but they haven’t played ball and you’re none the wiser. Will they need the original in court? That’s the big question really – can you see a judge ruling that the copy you have is good enough to enforce the debt? I can’t but then I’m not a judge.

I think lots of people are in the same situation as you – some decide to stop paying and wait for the next step – others decide to offer a token payment. I don’t think anyone can tell you what to do now but they will help you get through it if it goes to court.

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  • 2 weeks later...

They should reply by sending you a copy of any document that contains your personal information – so in the case of your credit agreement you want to see a copy of the front and back (it’s best to stipulate this in your request) – as underdog13 said in an earlier post, the back of your agreement (application) can’t be as they claim because it says bank copy.

Let’s see what they send and then take it from there.

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  • 1 month later...

Got this letter today . have not had a reply to my Subject Access Request and no reply to letters asking to see origonal agreement at local branch also had loads of calls dispite a letter re harrasment Is there a reply or just leave it HELP PLEASE"SCM 1 picture by jayjay1105_2008 - Photobucket"

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I got one of those from ****; nothing has happened - yet.


A friend of mine got one in August and has yet to hear any more.


You could write to them and ask to see a copy of all docs they intend to rely on in court, or to make it more official, as they have threatened court action use CPR rules to make them disclose the docs

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  • 2 weeks later...

start court procedings against them as they will get the message then.

OFT debt collection guidance


Please remember the only stupid question is the one you dont ask so dont worry about asking the stupid questions.


Essex girl in pc world looking 4 curtains 4 her pc,the assistant says u dont need curtains 4 a computer!!Essex girl says,''HELLOOO!! i,ve got WINDOWS!!'.

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