CCa 1974 and credit cards

[rory32]

Dear Sir,

 

Thank you for the reply to my letter dated XX/XX.2008.

 

Having taken the time to look over the documents supplied in response to my statutory request made under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, I have the following concerns.

 

The document entitled “credit card agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974” which appears to bear my signature fails to comply with the requirements of the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1557). In particular section 2 of the Regulations.

 

As you will be no doubt aware, the Copy Document Regulations requires that documents are easily legible and clearly the terms of the agreement are not easily legible, infact far from it. Many of the terms are blurred and cannot be interpreted and I am further unable to make out the prescribed terms as required by schedule 6 column 2 of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553). After taking advice on this matter, I am of the belief that this agreement that you have presented before me, as it stands would be unenforceable even by court order. Therefore, I require that you provide me a clearly legible copy of the agreement, where all the terms are clearly legible

Should you not be able to supply a clearly legible copy containing the necessary prescribed terms, I would suggest that you give consideration to cancelling this account and reducing the balance to zero. Of course the alternative would be to seek a declaration of my rights under Section 142(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. I am advised that with the documents that you have supplied there would be an extremely good prospect of success with such a declaration. However, I am mindful of additional costs that such action could incur both on my part and on yours so I trust you will give consideration to this request

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter and look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

 

Yours Sincerely

...

[atwozee]

Hi Jay – its fine but they know (and choose to ignore) their responsibilities under the act. Try something short and sweet like this -

Account Number xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Dear sir/madam:

Thank you for your reply to my request for a true copy of any alleged credit agreement regarding the above account. Unfortunately the copy you have sent is of a poor quality and illegible and therefore does not comply with my request.

This account will remain in dispute until such time as you supply me with a legible copy.

Yours faithfully,

[atwozee]

Or rory’s – which is a little more detailed!

[jayjay11]

Hi again,, Thanks for the good advice so far. I sent the letter rory32 recomended they received it on 29 th Oct and no reply so far what next ??? what is the next step? Do i apply for the declaration in court? if so when is best. Also not had any reply or Cca from barclays what should i do there??

Edited November 12, 2008 by jayjay11
typo

[atwozee]

Are you looking for judgement under s142 – I think it will cost you to do this and if they have the original you might be in trouble.

Why don’t you send them another letter asking them to make the original copy available for inspection at your local branch.

[jayjay11]

Is there a template for the letter ?

[atwozee]

No – but try this –

Dear Sir/Madam

Account Number xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

I wrote to you recently regarding the poor quality of the documents you have sent in response to my request for information under section 78 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. To ensure that this doesn’t happen again might I suggest that you arrange for the original document to be made available for inspection by me in person at my local branch.

Please advise me at your earliest convenience where and when the document will be available for inspection.

Yours faithfully,

Print don’t sign.

There should be no reason why they cannot comply unless of course they don’t have the original.

[jayjay11]

I sent a letter to tsb as atwoze sugested and no reply but got the attached letter yesterday could someone advise a reply or where to go from here?? Thanks jayjay1105_2008 - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

Edited December 7, 2008 by jayjay11
link added

[car2403]

Hey jayjay...

 

Sorry, this agreement looks enforceable to me to. A credit card requires the prescribed terms of credit limit, interest rates and payments. Although I agree the copy they have sent is a little fuzzy, I don't think a Judge would rule it to be illegible. The prescribed are clearly visible on the copy, albeit you have to squint to see it, but as this is a copy, you have to wonder what the original looks like. If the original is clearer, this argument will go out of the window. If you bring a claim based on this issue alone, you will lose if you go to Court and the original shows up. If it doesn't, that's a different story, but that is the punt you will have to decide if you want to take or not.

 

What are you trying to achieve, exactly? They haven't defaulted you, (yet!) but you are already on a reduced payment plan. Why are you not making those payments? If you can, I would, and continue to so long as they agree to not default you. Avoiding the default is important and I can't see how the issues you've highlighted here would prevent that from happening. Of course, if you can't afford those payments, that will mean a different tact to take.

 

Incidentally, have you sent a DPA SAR? This should reveal charges you could reclaim, which will reduce the debt and may even wipe it out. If there are charges, and they go on to default you with those included, you could manage to escape liability in that way.

 

So...

 

- Are you prepared to take the risk of having a fully legible agreement?

- What are you trying to achieve?

- Avoid the default by any means necessary

- Get a SAR off, so if you are defaulted, you can be ahead of the game

[jayjay11]

Thanks for your reply :

I am wondering if they havent replied to my letter asking for the agreement to be produced at my local branch is a sign they may not have it??? surely they would want to be sure they had complied fully if they intended court action so would could be lost by producing it.

I will send a SAR off

I want to go as far down this path as pos to try to get them to show there hand if for instance they dont have the origanal agreement but how for to go? if things get sticky i could offer a F& F settlement but when? at the end of the day if the whole lot can be writen off then thats great we are talking about 6 k. Any advice / views would be great .

[underdog13]

Jayjay, having looked at your scans on page 2, something strikes me as odd - the first scan would seem to be an application form, but the second page containing the terms (which I'm presuming they are asserting is on the reverse of the first page, otherwise it would not be within the four corners of the agreement), states at the top 'Credit card conditions -bank copy'. Maybe I'm wrong, but this seems to be peculiar wording on an application form; surely you only have a bank copy where you also have a customer copy. Don't know about you, but I've never had a customer copy of a credit card application form:confused:

[jayjay11]

thanks for your reply maybe cus its monday morning.... but what are you getting at then??

[swt61]

Hi Everyone, I just foun dthis thread & am reading with great interest.

 

I Have a Credit Card Debt which I am trying to resolve its located in my own thread here if someone would care to look it over for me

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/167241-newbie-my-cca-story-2.html#post1857225

 

Many Thnaks,

 

Simon

[jayjay11]

Can anyone give advise /views where to go from here ? do i ned to reply to the letter they sent saying the account is in dispute and ask if they have the origonal agreement why i cant view it at my branch? or should i phone them ?

[underdog13]

thanks for your reply maybe cus its monday morning.... but what are you getting at then??

 

What I'm getting at is I think they are pulling a fast one with the attached T&Cs - they do not seem to belong to a credit card application form. Have you ever seen an application form that says 'bank copy'? There isn't usually a specified 'bank copy' nor a specified 'customer copy' - there is (in my experience) one copy of the application form that is filled in, sent back and retained by the bank.

[jayjay11]

Thanks underdog.. i was not on form this morning after thinking about i came to that conclution too So where would you go from here??

[underdog13]

Can anyone give advise /views where to go from here ? do i ned to reply to the letter they sent saying the account is in dispute and ask if they have the origonal agreement why i cant view it at my branch? or should i phone them ?

 

It's up to you how you choose to procede, but personally, I would write to them and ask to inspect the original document in a branch - if they refuse, demand a detailed explanation as to why not.

[atwozee]

It’s difficult to offer any more advice other than has already been offered. A lot depends on how far you personally want to go with it – if they tried to enforce this agreement in court would you be happy to defend? If it went to court and you lost could you live with the ccj?

Do they have the original? Asking them to produce it was a way of finding out but they haven’t played ball and you’re none the wiser. Will they need the original in court? That’s the big question really – can you see a judge ruling that the copy you have is good enough to enforce the debt? I can’t but then I’m not a judge.

I think lots of people are in the same situation as you – some decide to stop paying and wait for the next step – others decide to offer a token payment. I don’t think anyone can tell you what to do now but they will help you get through it if it goes to court.

[jayjay11]

Ive sent a SAR if and when they comply what am i looking for ??

[atwozee]

They should reply by sending you a copy of any document that contains your personal information – so in the case of your credit agreement you want to see a copy of the front and back (it’s best to stipulate this in your request) – as underdog13 said in an earlier post, the back of your agreement (application) can’t be as they claim because it says bank copy.

Let’s see what they send and then take it from there.

[jayjay11]

Got this letter today . have not had a reply to my Subject Access Request and no reply to letters asking to see origonal agreement at local branch also had loads of calls dispite a letter re harrasment Is there a reply or just leave it HELP PLEASE"SCM 1 picture by jayjay1105_2008 - Photobucket"

[underdog13]

I got one of those from ****; nothing has happened - yet.

 

A friend of mine got one in August and has yet to hear any more.

 

You could write to them and ask to see a copy of all docs they intend to rely on in court, or to make it more official, as they have threatened court action use CPR rules to make them disclose the docs

[jayjay11]

Still getting calls from tsb 21 in 5 days i dont answer (got call display)

They havent taken any notice of my letter re harrasment is there any more i can do >????

[The GodMother]

start court procedings against them as they will get the message then.

[jayjay11]

for harrasment? how would i go about that??