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Court papers received- what now??!!**WON**CASE DISMISSED

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If you can scan in the default notice and take out all the bits that will identify you that would be good. Hopefully they have made a mistook that we can pounce on :D


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PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Thanks citizenB.

 

Even though I have sent the CPR request with my surname spelled correctly the numpties have spelt it wrong again in this letter:-x

 

Canaan

Edited by Canaan

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Hi canaan. Ok, will check out your thread tomorrow for the default notice. Meanwhile, you might want to check out this thread, In particular the first post where there is a letter that I think suitably amended might just meet your needs for responding to TBI's reluctance to respond favourably to your CPR letter. Dont do anything with it just yet, wait until we see your default notice ok.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/159445-getting-them-reveal-their.html#post1707671


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Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy -

HERE

2: Take back control of your finances -

Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors?

Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt

Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated -

Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

 

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Just to add the above letter is a great response to the one received from their solicitors and it will be interesting to see their reply..


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duplicate post

Edited by Canaan

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Grrr, it actually looks ok Canaan. However, there is still the question of the missing CCA.

 

Do you know if the amount on the Default notice is correct ?. Are there any penalty charges included that you are aware of?. That could make it invalid.

 

I think what you need to do now is put in your defence so that you get that in on time and also send the letter I linked you to earlier, you will need to amend it so you are asking for the documents specific to your situation. I will have a look at it again in a minute.

 

I will look round and try and find a defence that would be suitable for your needs.

 

At this stage, I think one of the "less is more" defences would be suitable. BRB. :D


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Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

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2: Take back control of your finances -

Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors?

Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt

Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated -

Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

 

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Hi Canaan, I have pm'd you the amended letter as per post 28. Just yell, if you have any queries:D


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Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy -

HERE

2: Take back control of your finances -

Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors?

Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt

Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated -

Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

 

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Hi citizenB.

By penalty charges do you mean charges for late payments etc? If so there are some but they are pre 2002. The letter you recomend has had a lot of debate about it on it's thread, is it ok to use in it's original form? with the relevant pieces altered for myself of course. I have to get my defence in by the 9th and am getting jittery now :eek:

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Hi citizenB.

By penalty charges do you mean charges for late payments etc? If so there are some but they are pre 2002. The letter you recomend has had a lot of debate about it on it's thread, is it ok to use in it's original form? with the relevant pieces altered for myself of course. I have to get my defence in by the 9th and am getting jittery now :eek:

 

 

We must have posted at the same time. See my post above yours. I have amended the letter to your requirements and pm'd you a copy. OK> DONT PANIC> I am just looking for defence for you. If you read the letter you will see by sending that you are delaying your PROPER defence and you will just be acknowledging the claim form. ok.

  • Haha 1

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Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy -

HERE

2: Take back control of your finances -

Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors?

Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt

Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated -

Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

 

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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I'm not so sure this is an effective notice. Where in the notice does it record the name and address of the creditor? Is it there but has been blanked out?

 

Further, and arguably, saying 'The creditor will issue court proceedings for the recovery of the whole balance of the account' is insufficient, since only upon non-compliance will the whole balance become payable (as opposed to the 'unpaid balance' referred to in the DN), and to be able to sue for the whole balance requires at minimum a demand for payment of the whole balance. This is why the regulations require the creditor to say if default is made he intends to 'demand earlier payment'.

 

As I understand things a demand was not received prior to the commencement of proceedings.

 

x20

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Thanks for looking in X20, according to the claim form the Default was served in February. However, only the OP can answer the question was it received prior to the issuing of the claim.

 

Having shamelessly reproduced, albeit with amendments suitable for the OP, your letter requesting information. Could you please have a look at the minimal defence. This time, I have plagairised alouyish. :oops: Thank you.

 

**********************************

 

Embarrassed Defence for Canaan

 

1. The particulars of claim discloses no cause of action and are self evidently an abuse of process, in that they fail to deal with the basic rules of pleading in accordance with the CPR (even allowing for the constraints of the bulk issue system).

 

2. Further to that above the defendant is unable to plead effectively or at all. The defendant is embarrassed.


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Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy -

HERE

2: Take back control of your finances -

Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors?

Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt

Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated -

Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

 

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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I have amended the letter to your requirements and pm'd you a copy.

OK> DONT PANIC> I am just looking for defence for you. If you read the letter you will see by sending that you are delaying your PROPER defence and you will just be acknowledging the claim form. ok.

Thanks citizenB :-)

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I'm not so sure this is an effective notice. Where in the notice does it record the name and address of the creditor? Is it there but has been blanked out?

 

The name and address of the debt collection company has been blanked out

 

Further, and arguably, saying 'The creditor will issue court proceedings for the recovery of the whole balance of the account' is insufficient, since only upon non-compliance will the whole balance become payable (as opposed to the 'unpaid balance' referred to in the DN), and to be able to sue for the whole balance requires at minimum a demand for payment of the whole balance. This is why the regulations require the creditor to say if default is made he intends to 'demand earlier payment'.

As I understand things a demand was not received prior to the commencement of proceedings.

x20

 

Right I have done a bit of searching through my paperwork and found another letter:oops: It was hidden amongst the paperwork for another debt collection company who were trying to get me to pay for a debt that had already been paid off, this letter came at the same time and got stuffed in with that paperwork accidentally I was soooo fuming at the time and obviously didnt look at it closely enough...now I can say that I am certain that this is all the letters I have received!! So any comments gratefully received.

LETTER23-7-08.pdf

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I assume that I should get that letter off first thing tomorrow? Then give them the 7 days to reply....then put in my defence????

Thanks in advance

 

Canaan

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Yes that is correct canaan. :D Send it either Recorded or Special Delivery, keep the receipt.


Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy -

HERE

2: Take back control of your finances -

Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors?

Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt

Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated -

Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

 

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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As I understand things a demand was not received prior to the commencement of proceedings.

x20

 

Hi x20

The attached letter (which I had accidentally filed with another DCA paperwork and only found today) on the 23rd of July 2008 and the court papers on the 10th of September 2008.

Thanks

Canaan

LETTER23-7-08.pdf

Edited by Canaan

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What exactly is a charge on a house? and is it usual for them to threaten this?

Thanks

Canaan

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What exactly is a charge on a house? and is it usual for them to threaten this?

Thanks

Canaan

 

Never mind I did a search and found out what it is :-x Over my dead body!!!

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The story so far...

I received court papers clearly stating that I was being taken to court to recover the balance of a personal loan, I have never had a personal loan with the OC ( I had a credit card not a loan), could this be used in a defence?

The first CPR letter I sent to the DCA and their solicitor was replied to but my request ignored.

The second CPR letter is being posted today.

I never received anything from the OC telling me that they were selling the debt to TBI, the first communication I received from TBI was the default notice, and I have never had any messages left on my answerphone from TBI. I have had several messages left where the caller does not identify themselves or their company just telling me to call a number.

Now I need to work on a defence and would be grateful for any help in this, the embarassed defence is short and sweet, does it just mean that I can not defend without the paperwork therefore thats all I can say???:-?

 

Thanks

Canan

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I believe that issuing proceedings for a loan when you've never had a loan with the company means that your defence will be simply 'I have never had a loan with XXXX'. All this will actually mean in practice is that they will have to amend their particulars of claim, which will cost them an application fee, but it will delay things and give you a better chance to make sure all their paperwork is in order. It will of course also make them look ridiculous, which is a definite bonus.


RMW

"If you want my parking space, please take my disability" Common car park sign in France.

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What exactly is a charge on a house? and is it usual for them to threaten this?

Thanks

Canaan

 

Never mind I did a search and found out what it is :-x Over my dead body!!!

 

:lol: That's the spirit. Unfortunately, yes. These companies do make this threat more often than not. If your read round the forums you will see plenty of people who have seen the threat off.

 

Your creditor has instigated court action on the basis of an agreement. They have not produced that agreement. Until they do, you are unable to say whether this company has the right to collect/enforce.

 

So, they have ignored your first request under the CPR. With X20's excellent letter you have now made a further stab at getting this information provided. Until you receive it you are unable to put in a full defence because you dont know if you are actually liable for this.

 

It does seem strange they have put on the claim form that it is for a loan when in fact it is a credit card debt and yes, I would say that you would mention this.

 

What RMW has said in the post previous seems an excellent response in fact.

 

When do you have to have your defence in by ?


Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy -

HERE

2: Take back control of your finances -

Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors?

Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt

Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated -

Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

 

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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I have to have the defence in by the 9th of October :)

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You have plenty of time to put in your defence so you do not need to take any step imminently. What you do next can be chewed over and there are things which need to be chewed because although I have knocked out a form a defence (below), it is based solely upon the point that a loan agreement was not entered into.

I flagged up what may have been shortcomings in the DN but having seen the PoC, the amount demanded in the DN is the sum demanded in the letter before action is the sum demanded in the writ. There is no real mileage in challenging the DN. Further, As RMW said, sooner or later the nature of the agreement is going to be corrected. The defence is flimsy in the extreme therefore. It will not survive an amendment.

So do you run with a defence which at the end of the day won’t get you very far? It’s purpose in truth is simply to buy you time. Is that what you need over anything else in this case? More time?

You might think it in your interests to issue an offer to settle at something less than £3,000.00. If you have a lump sum available the creditor may be so interested in that lump sum to be willing to give a valuable discount in return for a one off payment to settle. Doing this avoids the litigation, settles it and doesn’t result in a CCJ

Alternatively you may prefer to admit the claim and take advantage of the court’s powers to stay enforcement on the basis you make monthly instalments. That gets you more time too, though doing this does lead to a CCJ.

Any way here’s that crappy defence:

IN THE XXXXXXXXXX COUNTY COURT

Case No:

BETWEEN:

xxxxxx

Claimant

and

 

canaan

Defendant

DEFENCE

 

1 The Defendant denies having entered into a loan agreement with HFC Bank plc (the bank) or otherwise receiving an advance of money with an obligation to repay it to the bank. If the loan agreement was regulated under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 the same will have been made in writing. If the Claimant intends to rely on a written agreement in this claim, no such agreement together with any general conditions was attached to or served with the Particulars of Claim, contrary to the provisions of CPR PD 16 paragraph 7.3.

2 Paragraph 2 of the Particulars of Claim is denied.

3 No admissions are made as to paragraph 3 of the Particulars of Claim.

4 The Claimant’s entitlement to payment of the sum of £3,028.26 and to interest is denied.

 

I BELIEVE THAT THE CONTENTS OF THIS DEFENCE ARE TRUE.

 

Signed:

x20

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Thanks x20.

So if this defence would only buy me time and serve no other purpose there is little point in going on with it I think. I will have to use the lack of signed CCA defence instead do you think?? I do not have any lump sum to pay, and a monthly amount would be minimal.

Thanks

Canaan

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A quick update and question :)

I sent a second CCA letter to the solicitor on the 18th, it has been delivered according to the royal mail. I have not had a reply yet, should I shoot yet another letter off to them? And if so has anyone got any ideas of what to put in it this time:confused:

My defence has to be in by the 9th of October.

 

Thanks

Canaan

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