TBI Claimform - old HFC Credit card Debt - **WON** - default notice fee but NO default produced

[surfaceagentx20]

Got your PM.

 

Reply saying:

 

Thank you for your letter in which you invite my consent to an amendment of your Particulars of Claim. I may be willing to consent to an amendment without requiring you to make a formal application conditional upon a like facility to amend my defence being extended to me.

 

To enable me to consider your proposal please provide me with a copy of your proposed draft amendment and confirm you consent to my having the facility to amend my defence.

 

y/f

 

They will consent to you amending. This way you get the facility to amend you were talking about earlier without having to go through the hoops of an application and a court fee. If you do not like the look for their proposed amendment you can always refuse permission, though in the majority of cases permission should not be refused.

 

Any queries just yell.

 

x20

[Canaan]

Call my cynical...but....I am wondering if the DCA/solicitor might try and pull a fast one with this and delay sending me the revised POC till after my original defence is due in?? I really feel that I should be prepared for this eventuality and have a defence ready just in case?? If there is no revised POC here within two days of the defence cut off date, the cut off date is the 9th of October, then I would have to send in the defence.

Anyone have any thoughts??

 

Looking at the time scales it will be more than tight! If I post the letter today 26th, they will get it on the 29th or the 30th, if they reply straight away I might get the revised POC on the 1st or the 2nd, by the time I put it up here and reply again they will get my reply by the 6th or the 7th. I intend posting my defence on the 7th! Not knowing how this works at what stage would they contact the court to say they were amending their POC? And would it be wise for me to ring the court and check that this has actually been done?

 

Thanks

Canaan

[42man]

Always worth checking with the court Canaan...try and keep as updated as possible....

[surfaceagentx20]

Sorry, I was not as up to speed and had thought your defence had already gone in hence the references to amending your defence which appeared immediately before I suggested the response to the opposition's solicitor.

 

In light of the time scale and your inability to negotiate, I would submit your defence as it is and then respond to the solicitor in the way I suggested.

 

x20

[Canaan]

Thanks x20 and 42man:)

Now I don't actually have a defence...yet...I guess it would be based on the lack of CCA even after two letters asking for it...any help in this would be appreciated...bearing in mind that I am convinced the DCA is following this thread....:grin:

 

Canaan

[surfaceagentx20]

I'm with you Canaan and your concerns this thread may be being watched.

 

... (deleted)

 

As I said earlier, I appreciate the opposition may be watching this thread. They appear to have second guessed they need to amend by reason of what appears here. Once you have picked up this post if you would like me delete it, just say so and I will.

 

x20

Edited September 26, 2008 by surfaceagentx20
see post 66

[Canaan]

Thanks X20 if you could delete it that would be great I have copied it to a word document.

Once this is over I will post all the relevant bits and pieces so it can be of help to others

[citizenB]

Morning canaan, I was going to reply.. but X20 beat me to it.

[Canaan]

Afternoon citizenB:)

 

X20 was on the case early today:grin:

The amended letter has now been sent, thanks for the updated reply x20.

 

Now sit back and wait till the 4th and then submit my defence:eek:

 

Canaan

[citizenB]

Afternoon citizenB:)

 

X20 was on the case early today:grin:

The amended letter has now been sent, thanks for the updated reply x20.

 

Now sit back and wait till the 4th and then submit my defence:eek:

 

Canaan

 

He certainly was, took me longer to get my brain (once I had found it) into gear this morning.

 

 

Yep, the waiting is always the hardest part.

[Canaan]

Hope everyone had a great weekend!!

Had another letter arrive from the solicitor on saturday, no CCA of course. Have PM'd it to X20. I will be starting to write my defence tomorow, if anyone has a good defence that would be relevant to my situation I would be grateful if it could be PM'd to me.

 

Bump

[surfaceagentx20]

OK Canaan I've seen the leter and contained nothing of interest and you do not need to reply.

 

The Defence as it stands is naff as per my post no48 snd the meatier defence (if any) is dependent on what might be missing from the CCA.

 

Earlier you were seemingly talking about abandoning a defence if it only bought you time. Time is of course handy to have and since the case will get allocated to the small claims track it won't cost you any more either.

 

x20

[Canaan]

The Defence as it stands is naff as per my post no48 snd the meatier defence (if any) is dependent on what might be missing from the CCA.

 

Earlier you were seemingly talking about abandoning a defence if it only bought you time. Time is of course handy to have and since the case will get allocated to the small claims track it won't cost you any more either.

x20

 

Thanks X20.

I spoke about abandoning THAT defence if all it would do is buy me time, I was thinking that I should go straight for the lack of CCA defence, after all they haven't produced one:) and I wanted this over and done with. But then again I will defer to experience and am willing wait for as long as it takes to sort this out.

Canaan

[Canaan]

I have finally had a reply to my letter to the solicitor giving them till the 4th of october to send me a revised POC to review. The previous POC had several serious errors on it. I received the letter on the link yesterday the 3rd. I would be very grateful if I could have some help with the wording of the letter I need to send to the court to accompany a copy of this letter. Makes me laugh that they have worded it to make it sound like they are doing me a favour rather than preventing me from submitting a defence to a POC that was a mess which would have made them look like complete plonkers!!!!

http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo110/Canaan1970/fri3oct.jpg

 

Many thanks

Canaan

[surfaceagentx20]

Here you go ..

 

Dear Sir,

 

Re (Claimant) v (Defendant) Case No:

 

I am the Defendant in this case.

 

Please treat this letter as notice pursuant to CPR 15.5(2) that an agreement has been reached between the parties to extend the time for service of the Defence in this case. By the agreement, my Defence is not due until 23 October 2008.

 

yours faithfully,

 

x20

[Canaan]

Thanks X20. So what happens now?? Do they correct their POC and submit it again? Do I wait till that arrives then, as it will mention a CCA again, write again to them requesting the CCA they are relying on? As no CCA will be sent to me, or at least not a genuine one, will my defence be no CCA no debt?

 

Thanks in advance

Canaan

[surfaceagentx20]

Don't bother repeating your request for production of the agremeent. You only need to ask once.

 

To 'correct', ie 'amend' the other side need the permission of the court or your consent to amend. Have they asked you for permission? If they have I would refuse. Here's why:

 

As I understood the position it is that you have requested and are still waiting to be shown a copy of the agreement. If this is so, evidently the other side are having difficulty in locating it. That's fine and long may it be so. It means they can't amend because in amending they will need to identify the agreement and comply with CPR PD 16 by attaching a copy of it to the Amended Particulars of Claim!

 

An extension of time for the service of a defence can not be agreed between the parties for any longer than 28 days. An extension to 23 October is a 14 day extension (if as you said earlier, it was due by 9 October).

 

If by 23 October they still have not found it and obtained the court's permission to amend the Particulars of Claim, enter the Defence I drafted earlier. I described that Defence as 'flimsy' in the belief that it wouldn't survive an amendment of the Particulars of Claim. As things stand at the moment an amendment is not on the cards. It is the survival of the Particulars of Claim which looks in jeopardy!

 

x20

[Canaan]

Don't bother repeating your request for production of the agremeent. You only need to ask once.

 

Ok thanks

 

To 'correct', ie 'amend' the other side need the permission of the court or your consent to amend. Have they asked you for permission? If they have I would refuse. Here's why:

 

As I understood the position it is that you have requested and are still waiting to be shown a copy of the agreement.

 

Yes this is true here is the letter they sent requesting that I agree to an amendment via a consent order http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo110/Canaan1970/scan0003.jpg

 

If this is so, evidently the other side are having difficulty in locating it. That's fine and long may it be so. It means they can't amend because in amending they will need to identify the agreement and comply with CPR PD 16 by attaching a copy of it to the Amended Particulars of Claim!

 

Okaaaaaaay? They never attached a copy of the agreement to the first POC:confused: Why would an amended one be different? You mentioned in an earlier post that a request to amend should not normally be refused, I am curious as to why now it is different? I have written to them as you directed giving them till the 4th of october to produce a draft POC for me to look at they waited till yesteray to write to say they agree to give ME an extention to get my defence in. I am confused and wonder what effect me refusing to allow them to amend would have?

An extension of time for the service of a defence can not be agreed between the parties for any longer than 28 days. An extension to 23 October is a 14 day extension (if as you said earlier, it was due by 9 October).

 

If by 23 October they still have not found it and obtained the court's permission to amend the Particulars of Claim, enter the Defence I drafted earlier. I described that Defence as 'flimsy' in the belief that it wouldn't survive an amendment of the Particulars of Claim. As things stand at the moment an amendment is not on the cards. It is the survival of the Particulars of Claim which looks in jeopardy!

So do I understand correctly, by refusing permission I am forcing them to apply to the court for permission to amend the POC? And they would have to produce the CCA to the court at this point? Which they don't have..... Sorry for all the questions but I asm really trying to understand all of this and make sure that I am going forward with at least a basic knowledge of what I am doing

 

x20

Thanks

Canaan

[citizenB]

If I understand that letter correctly, they are asking for you to agree to the amendments of the POC , presumably this means that they wont need to ask the court ?, in exchange they will give the extension of time for you to submit a defence.

 

Ummm, one for x20 methinks

[Canaan]

If I understand that letter correctly, they are asking for you to agree to the amendments of the POC , presumably this means that they wont need to ask the court ?, in exchange they will give the extension of time for you to submit a defence.

Ummm, one for x20 methinks

 

Thanks citizenB.

I did'nt really think I needed extra time, my defence does not need to be in till the 9th of October .

So I assume I should send the letter they sent yesterday along with X20's post #75 which buys both sides extra time, then if they send an amended POC I look at it and decide if I agree with it or not??? and if they do not send one I submit the naff defence as per X20's post #48. Out of interest my letter to them said I would consider agreeing to an amended POC if they agreed to me being able to change my defence, they make no mention of this is their letter?? Is this significant??

 

THANKS

 

Canaan

[surfaceagentx20]

About amending, What I said in your case, in reference to the letter you have linked to was:

 

Got your PM.

 

Reply saying:

Thank you for your letter in which you invite my consent to an amendment of your Particulars of Claim. I may be willing to consent to an amendment without requiring you to make a formal application conditional upon a like facility to amend my defence being extended to me.

 

To enable me to consider your proposal please provide me with a copy of your proposed draft amendment and confirm you consent to my having the facility to amend my defence.

 

y/f

 

They will consent to you amending. This way you get the facility to amend you were talking about earlier without having to go through the hoops of an application and a court fee. If you do not like the look for their proposed amendment you can always refuse permission, though in the majority of cases permission should not be refused.

 

First, the letter in reply said 'I may be willing to consent to an amendment' (emphasis on 'may') and went on to say 'To enable me to consider your proposal please provide me with a copy of your proposed draft amendment.'

 

So far, they haven't responded with the proposed draft amendment, and the reason for this I am sure, is that they can't find the agreement. If they sought to amend without providing a copy of the agreement that would be a breach of CPR PD 16 and they would be unlikely in those circumstances to expect you to consent. After all, the letter asking for production expressly referred to CPR PD 16, and yes I know the first Particulars of Claim came without a copy of the agreement which is why the request for producion of the agreement was dressed up the way it was. Equally and if they did chance an ask of you, you would be within your rights to refuse to consent for the precise same reason.

 

I said: 'in the majority of cases permission should not be refused.', not all cases, and in a proper case permission may be refused. I would also add that it is advisable to be seen to be willing to consider an amendment aswell. That said however, in your case, no advance has been made in the drawing up of the amendment and no advance has been made in the production of the CCA to you. All this suggests as I said earlier, that the other side are in grave difficulties and it stems I would imagine, from the fact they've lost or destroyed the agreement.

 

If you refuse permission to amend, as you should if they can not produce the agreement, the only way forward for the other side will be to get the court to give them permission to amend. In my view the application would be at risk of being dismissed where they were unable to provide a copy of the agreement straight away. In any case, from the other side's point of view, what would be the point of an amendment if the amended case lead to another CPR 31.14 request? It's all a complete headache for them.

 

Yunno what, I misread the recent letter as their confirmation of your request for more time to serve a defence. In truth it's no such thing is it? It's just the other side seeking more time to find the agreement and get their house in order, right? Why give it to them? May as well file the 'not so flimsey defence after all' and get in now and not even wait until the 9 October. The court will then send out AQs to both sides and the clock will start ticking against them.

 

x20

[Having_A_Knightmare]

X20

 

Can I just ask how to make a creditor reply to a CPR information request

 

HAK

[surfaceagentx20]

HAK,

You have to make an application to the court in form N244 for an order compelling the otherside to comply, with sanctions if they do not.

 

x20

[Having_A_Knightmare]

Cheers X20

 

One more thing is there a fee for this

 

HAK

[surfaceagentx20]

£75.00

 

x20