Jump to content


Conditional Offer of employment


style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 4880 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

Hi all

Back in May 2007 i was fortunate enough to recieve a conditional offer of employment from a major employer in our area, this employer currently has over 10,000 on this one site. My offer was very detailed with pay dates, entitlements and pension details and said the start date would follow once all the pre employment checks were complete.

 

By the way when i applied it was because my employer at the time was facing an uncertain future and i wanted security. At the end of July 2007 all the pre employment checks were complete and i was verbally told all was fine, My family and i went on holiday for a week as i had been made redundant in the last week of July but when we returned there was a short letter from the employer stating that due to restructuring they could no longer offer me a position but my details would remain on file for consideration against future positions.

 

I called HR and was told they had been instructed by management to put on hold all external recruitement, i explained my situation and the advice was to live on my redundancy for a while until it was sorted out "maybe a couple of months or so".

 

It is now September 2008, still no job, and after many calls to them i am no further on. I have spoken to many people there and the impression i get is that they know they have done wrong but are powerless to help because of the hold on recruitement from the MD.

 

My issue is that the conditions of my offer were all met and there was no mention of them being able to retract the offer due to business decisions.

 

I have spoken to an independant HR consultant who was astounded by this and says if diplomacy is not working then i have a good case to claim for loss of earnings, she has also consulted a solicitor freind who says the same.

 

Does anyone have any thoughts on this or similar experience before i go ahead and consult a solicitor, this is a major employer and multi million pound organisation who may fight to the end to save face or just cave in to save hassle.

 

Please advise.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Going off standard contract law(this may differ in an employment situation, but I doubt it in this case as "employment" did not occur), you have three stages of contract formation - Offer, Consideration and Acceptance.

 

The problem you have in this situation is that there is no acceptance of the contract i.e. the contract has not been shown to have begun by the actions of both parties.

 

You have my utmost sympathies, as I think it is without question that the new employer has behaved wrongly, and it really leaves you in the s**t (pardon my french). But legally, I think you will struggle.

 

I think the BIG issue as well ius that you never seem to have received any notification of an intended start date...?

  • Haha 1

7 years in retail customer service

 

Expertise in letting and rental law for 6 years

 

By trade - I'm an IT engineer working in the housing sector.

 

Please note that any posts made by myself are for information only and should not and must not be taken as correct or factual. If in doubt, consult with a solicitor or other person of equal legal standing.

 

Please click the star if I have helped!!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Mr shed is spot on re the formation of a contract. I perhaps would look at it as the offer coming from the employer and you accepting it thus potentially forming a contract.

 

It would depend on the precise wording of the job offer - was it for example clear and unambiguos? perhaps not if it did not have a proposed start date. Did you ever write back to them saying that you 'formally accept their offer'.

 

Traditional contract law is that an offer is open for acceptance until it is withdrawn - which perhaps they have now done with their phone call.

 

You should take the offer letter and show it to a solicitor etc because if they have breached their contract with you you may be able to recover your reasonably forseable losses e.g. lost wages.

 

You need to speak to a specialist.

...................................................................... [FONT=Comic Sans MS]Please post on a thread before sending a PM. My opinion's are not expressed as agent or representative of The Consumer Action Group. Always seek professional advice from a qualified legal adviser before acting. If I have helped you please feel free to click on the black star.[/FONT] [FONT=Comic Sans MS] I am sorry that work means I don't get into the Employment Forum as often as I would like these days, but nonetheless I'll try to pop in when I can.[/FONT] [FONT=Arial Black][FONT=Comic Sans MS][COLOR=Red]'Venceremos' :wink:[/COLOR][/FONT][/FONT]

Link to post
Share on other sites

When i got the offer it came with a reply letter to complete if i was to accept the offer, i completed this and posted back. Also the pack i received stated that it constituted my contract of employment.

 

I also contacted ACAS several months ago, i did not give them details of the organization as they command considerable power but i did tell them the circumstances, they told me to immediately contact a solicitor. I decided to try the diplomatic route first.

 

The documentation was very clear and stated that "start date to be confirmed"

Edited by mrich
Link to post
Share on other sites

When i got the offer it came with a reply letter to complete if i was to accept the offer, i completed this and posted back. Also the pack i received stated that it constituted my contract of employment.

 

Thus possibly you have a contract and they are in breach - just a bit conerned about you not having a defininte start date.

 

If the company are big that is actually a good thing because they will probably pay any judgement awarded against them if you were successful in a BOC claim.

 

Take the paperwork to a local solicitor / law centre / check ins policies you have for legal expense cover

...................................................................... [FONT=Comic Sans MS]Please post on a thread before sending a PM. My opinion's are not expressed as agent or representative of The Consumer Action Group. Always seek professional advice from a qualified legal adviser before acting. If I have helped you please feel free to click on the black star.[/FONT] [FONT=Comic Sans MS] I am sorry that work means I don't get into the Employment Forum as often as I would like these days, but nonetheless I'll try to pop in when I can.[/FONT] [FONT=Arial Black][FONT=Comic Sans MS][COLOR=Red]'Venceremos' :wink:[/COLOR][/FONT][/FONT]

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

You should take the offer letter and show it to a solicitor etc because if they have breached their contract with you you may be able to recover your reasonably forseable losses e.g. lost wages.

 

You need to speak to a specialist.

 

edited

 

Unfortunately OP, it appears you were offered a job and that has been withdrawn due to 'restructuring.'

 

No doubt this restructuring and a hold on external recruitment would be argued as due to financial pressures in these difficult times.

 

There is not a chance you would get anywhere so don't even waste your time, or money.

Edited by jonni2bad
Please refrain from personal remarks of this nature
Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh dear WAY don't spit your dummy out

 

I admit that the weakness in this person's case may be the lack of a definite start date, but the fact that you state the OP has '..not a chance..' when you have not seen the exact wording of the job offer shows your ignorance on this point

 

The following is a direct quote from 'Your Rights At Work' p. 15 Third Ed 2008 authored in part by barrister Catrin Lewis and published by Kogan Page

 

As soon as you have been offered a job and have accepted it, there is a basic legal contract between you and the employer, even if you have received nothing in writing .... if the offer is withdrawn it may be possible to sue your prospective employer, particularly if you have suffered loss because you have left your previous job...

 

But as usual WAY I suppose your right and everyone else is wrong!

Edited by elche

...................................................................... [FONT=Comic Sans MS]Please post on a thread before sending a PM. My opinion's are not expressed as agent or representative of The Consumer Action Group. Always seek professional advice from a qualified legal adviser before acting. If I have helped you please feel free to click on the black star.[/FONT] [FONT=Comic Sans MS] I am sorry that work means I don't get into the Employment Forum as often as I would like these days, but nonetheless I'll try to pop in when I can.[/FONT] [FONT=Arial Black][FONT=Comic Sans MS][COLOR=Red]'Venceremos' :wink:[/COLOR][/FONT][/FONT]

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

But as usual WAY I suppose you're right and everyone else is wrong!

 

Sorry about correcting the above but it does annoy.

 

Yes, I am correct on this issue and to view the contract in this circumstance is fairly academic. Unless the contract stated that in the specific event of what has happened to the OP they would have recourse then they have no chance of success.

 

As the OP has not mentioned this one can safely conclude it does not.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Unless the contract stated that in the specific event of what has happened to the OP they would have recourse then they have no chance of success.

 

 

Another day another fight eh Al?? :D

 

Absolutely totally wrong. A contract does not have to outline the recourse of a breach of contract. In the abscence of such an outline, the injured party due to the breach is entitled to their actual financial loss due to the breach.

7 years in retail customer service

 

Expertise in letting and rental law for 6 years

 

By trade - I'm an IT engineer working in the housing sector.

 

Please note that any posts made by myself are for information only and should not and must not be taken as correct or factual. If in doubt, consult with a solicitor or other person of equal legal standing.

 

Please click the star if I have helped!!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Another day another fight eh Al?? :D

 

Absolutely totally wrong. A contract does not have to outline the recourse of a breach of contract. In the abscence of such an outline, the injured party due to the breach is entitled to their actual financial loss due to the breach.

 

The recourse in this circumstance would have been for the OP to be able to sue for, basically, not being finished up in the new job, maybe for a period of time, and/or to sue for damages because that has actually happened and this would need to have been stated in the contract.

 

As it wasn't stated like this in the contract then there is no breach of contract. The OP was offered a job and it was later withdrawn due to restrucuring the company ie saving money on staff costs.

 

Are you telling me an employee with no service, or just weeks of service, is able to sue for damages, and succeed, when all the company has to do to defend is to say they restructured their business and operated redundancy on a last in first out policy, for example?

 

A restructure is almost always financially based.

 

By law the OP would have no redundancy entitlement yet you suggest they can sue for breach of contract where it can be argued by the employer it is in fact a redundancy!:confused:

 

The OP, unfortuantely, has not a chance.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The recourse in this circumstance would have been for the OP to be able to sue for, basically, not being finished up in the new job, maybe for a period of time, and/or to sue for damages because that has actually happened and this would need to have been stated in the contract.

 

As it wasn't stated like this in the contract then there is no breach of contract. The OP was offered a job and it was later withdrawn due to restrucuring the company ie saving money on staff costs.

 

Are you telling me an employee with no service, or just weeks of service, is able to sue for damages, and succeed, when all the company has to do to defend is to say they restructured their business and operated redundancy on a last in first out policy, for example?

 

 

What your argument boils down to is "there is no breach of contract unless the contract explicitly states what is a breach of contract". That is clearly {EDIT}.

Edited by pt2537
SWEAR WORDS REMOVED

7 years in retail customer service

 

Expertise in letting and rental law for 6 years

 

By trade - I'm an IT engineer working in the housing sector.

 

Please note that any posts made by myself are for information only and should not and must not be taken as correct or factual. If in doubt, consult with a solicitor or other person of equal legal standing.

 

Please click the star if I have helped!!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Let me give you an example WAY

 

I'm offered a job today and i write back and accept their offer at the same time I hand in my notice at my current job.

 

In 4 weeks when I leave my job the new employer then says 'Oh sorry because of restructuring we have no job for you now che'

 

I have left my job on their promise, and now have no wages and no job.

 

In such a circumstance I could sue for my reasonably forseable losses due to their breach of contract. My length of service is irrelevant as such a claim would be brought in County Court not an ET.

 

The above is 100% correct, and I have no more to say on this issue. Please read the quote above from published barrister Catrin Lewis

...................................................................... [FONT=Comic Sans MS]Please post on a thread before sending a PM. My opinion's are not expressed as agent or representative of The Consumer Action Group. Always seek professional advice from a qualified legal adviser before acting. If I have helped you please feel free to click on the black star.[/FONT] [FONT=Comic Sans MS] I am sorry that work means I don't get into the Employment Forum as often as I would like these days, but nonetheless I'll try to pop in when I can.[/FONT] [FONT=Arial Black][FONT=Comic Sans MS][COLOR=Red]'Venceremos' :wink:[/COLOR][/FONT][/FONT]

Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh dear, this is getting tedious.:rolleyes:

 

Let me give you an example of how most employers defend this type of event with your approach to how the OP has recourse, according to you.

 

Firstly, the employer will simply challenge the county court's jurisdiction as the employer, with good advice, will state the issue brought is not a breach of contract but, rather, an employment dispute as the OP's offer of employment was withdrawn due to financial concerns that arose after the offer of employment was made and thus, effectively, the OP was made redundant before he could take up his post.

 

That is an employment dispute as redundancy would be the reason, not a breach of contract.

 

Therefore, the OP would then need to make an ET claim where he could allege a breach of contract yet again as a redundancy claim would be invalid.

 

However, the employer yet again pleads the defence that the OP was selected for redundancy due to the restructure (for financial concerns). In the current climate of probable recession this would be entirely reasonable and acceptable.

 

Also, I am ignoring the fact that a contract of employment had actually become valid in any case, which appears it could well not be.

 

As stated previously, unless the contract specifically stated this event of circumstance was stated within a clause then the OP will have no chance whatsoever of any success for a breach of contract in a county court with a likely defence as I have described.

 

And you will still ignore this I'm sure.:rolleyes:

Link to post
Share on other sites

In employment litigation, most claims can be issued in the Employment Tribunal and there are some claims that can be issued in the County or High Court or the Employment Tribunal.

 

 

 

This can be a complex area and it is generally best for you to seek legal advice on where your claim should be issued but the following is a general guide as to the differences between the two forums and things that you can expect.

 

 

 

Very generally most claims that are based in statute law, such as unfair dismissal and claims for redundancy payments are heard in the Employment Tribunal and claims which are based on breaches of your employment contract can be heard in the Court or the Employment Tribunal.

...................................................................... [FONT=Comic Sans MS]Please post on a thread before sending a PM. My opinion's are not expressed as agent or representative of The Consumer Action Group. Always seek professional advice from a qualified legal adviser before acting. If I have helped you please feel free to click on the black star.[/FONT] [FONT=Comic Sans MS] I am sorry that work means I don't get into the Employment Forum as often as I would like these days, but nonetheless I'll try to pop in when I can.[/FONT] [FONT=Arial Black][FONT=Comic Sans MS][COLOR=Red]'Venceremos' :wink:[/COLOR][/FONT][/FONT]

Link to post
Share on other sites

What your argument boils down to is "there is no breach of contract unless the contract explicitly states what is a breach of contract". That is clearly edited.

 

For the OP's particular circumstance as described then I am entirely correct.

 

For example, if a company car is not provided for as part of my job, and contract, then I cannot sue for breach of contract just to get one.

 

This is the important principle you are overlooking here.

 

It would needed to have been stated, as in the OP's case.

Edited by jonni2bad
Quoted text only
Link to post
Share on other sites

In employment litigation, most claims can be issued in the Employment Tribunal and there are some claims that can be issued in the County or High Court or the Employment Tribunal.

 

 

 

This can be a complex area and it is generally best for you to seek legal advice on where your claim should be issued but the following is a general guide as to the differences between the two forums and things that you can expect.

 

 

 

Very generally most claims that are based in statute law, such as unfair dismissal and claims for redundancy payments are heard in the Employment Tribunal and claims which are based on breaches of your employment contract can be heard in the Court or the Employment Tribunal.

 

Now we appear to be getting somewhere.

 

I have stated the employer has a very easy defence in a county court if they use a redundancy defence as it will be thrown out.

 

Therefore the OP would need to bring an ET claim.

 

And I would bet my house they would not succeed.

 

The contract must have had provision within it for what has happened otherwise it is simply no breach of contract but just a redundancy.

 

How do you propose a successful action in an ET where no breach has happened and the OP does not qualify for redundancy?

Link to post
Share on other sites

The job offer WAS stated, and NOT fuliflled.

 

Whether this is sufficient due to the job offer not being a specific date is opn for debate. What is NOT is that the argument would be "well, we didnt say what we would do if we did not fulfil our offer of a job, so we legally are responsible for nothing" - this is not true, as it is the injured parties right to have their FINANCIAL LOSS reimbursed due to a proven breach of contract.

 

WAY - basic contract law m'man!

7 years in retail customer service

 

Expertise in letting and rental law for 6 years

 

By trade - I'm an IT engineer working in the housing sector.

 

Please note that any posts made by myself are for information only and should not and must not be taken as correct or factual. If in doubt, consult with a solicitor or other person of equal legal standing.

 

Please click the star if I have helped!!

Link to post
Share on other sites

The job offer WAS stated, and NOT fuliflled.

 

Whether this is sufficient due to the job offer not being a specific date is opn for debate. What is NOT is that the argument would be "well, we didnt say what we would do if we did not fulfil our offer of a job, so we legally are responsible for nothing" - this is not true, as it is the injured parties right to have their FINANCIAL LOSS reimbursed due to a proven breach of contract.

 

WAY - basic contract law m'man!

 

Ok, how does the OP overcome this hurdle-

 

1 County Court action-employer simply states the OP was selected for redundancy?

 

How do you propose a county court can rule on that defence to a claim?

Link to post
Share on other sites

I dont. I am not even attempting to talk about possible defences. What I am saying is that the complaint would be UPHELD on that basis of law. Whether this would actually result in any financial compensation is not what I am discussing here.

7 years in retail customer service

 

Expertise in letting and rental law for 6 years

 

By trade - I'm an IT engineer working in the housing sector.

 

Please note that any posts made by myself are for information only and should not and must not be taken as correct or factual. If in doubt, consult with a solicitor or other person of equal legal standing.

 

Please click the star if I have helped!!

Link to post
Share on other sites

The job offer WAS stated, and NOT fuliflled.

 

Whether this is sufficient due to the job offer not being a specific date is opn for debate. What is NOT is that the argument would be "well, we didnt say what we would do if we did not fulfil our offer of a job, so we legally are responsible for nothing" - this is not true, as it is the injured parties right to have their FINANCIAL LOSS reimbursed due to a proven breach of contract.

 

WAY - basic contract law m'man!

 

Are you ignoring the points raised or misreading?

 

1 I haven't mentioned anything about the job offer not being stated.

 

What I have raised is that the specific clause that the OP 'will be compensated' should the employer retract a job offer is not present.

 

2 In the absence of that then you are suggesting that a breach of contract claim can be brought nonetheless.

 

I have not disagreed with this!

 

However, bringing a claim and being successful are two very different things.

 

3 Should the OP bring a claim in a county court then it could easily be thrown out as the employer can argue the OP was selected for redundancy. The county court cannot rule on this.

 

4 So now we have the ET. A redundancy complaint is not valid due to lack of service. So, back to an alleged breach of contract.

 

5 Again, the employer defends on the basis of a redundancy.

 

6 Considering the credit crunch, rising unemployment, falling orders etc etc are you really suggesting that an ET will rule that it is unreasonable for a company to restrict taking on new staff and that a redundancy, and probably many others, is instead a breach of contract?

Link to post
Share on other sites

I dont. I am not even attempting to talk about possible defences. What I am saying is that the complaint would be UPHELD on that basis of law. Whether this would actually result in any financial compensation is not what I am discussing here.

 

Pardon?

 

So you are willing to advise on this thread but without even considering the likely defence of the employer?

 

Kinda like a bit odd is that not?

 

:confused:

Link to post
Share on other sites

No, I posted about one area, not the entire query.

 

If the employee was selected for redundancy, there would still be financial loss, due to the SHORT period of employment he would have had. You seem to think that the ET/court can judge this as they feel on the day - clearly not. If there was financial loss, AND the contract was breached, AND this breach caused the loss, the court has NO OPTION AT ALL but to award this.

7 years in retail customer service

 

Expertise in letting and rental law for 6 years

 

By trade - I'm an IT engineer working in the housing sector.

 

Please note that any posts made by myself are for information only and should not and must not be taken as correct or factual. If in doubt, consult with a solicitor or other person of equal legal standing.

 

Please click the star if I have helped!!

Link to post
Share on other sites

No, I posted about one area, not the entire query.

 

If the employee was selected for redundancy, there would still be financial loss, due to the SHORT period of employment he would have had. You seem to think that the ET/court can judge this as they feel on the day - clearly not. If there was financial loss, AND the contract was breached, AND this breach caused the loss, the court has NO OPTION AT ALL but to award this.

 

If, if and if!

 

Of course there is financial loss from a redundancy as it is considered a dismissal.

 

But because the OP cannot bring a redundancy claim then the financial loss is irrelevant as it cannot be considered.

 

Which is why the (likely) response of the employer is all important.

 

You surely must now realise that should the employer argue the OP was made redundant then the OP has not a chance.

 

Which is what I said in the first place.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Eh?!? That argument makes no sense. The redundancy absolutely CAN be considered, even if a redundancy claim cannot be brought, as it is part of the actual financial loss!!

7 years in retail customer service

 

Expertise in letting and rental law for 6 years

 

By trade - I'm an IT engineer working in the housing sector.

 

Please note that any posts made by myself are for information only and should not and must not be taken as correct or factual. If in doubt, consult with a solicitor or other person of equal legal standing.

 

Please click the star if I have helped!!

Link to post
Share on other sites

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...