MBNA, Debt Clear Recoveries and Investigations and Restons

[interweb]

Hi

 

CCAd Link Financial (MBNA -Virgin) about 3 months ago.

 

This is what they have sent. My signature is on the front and on the back they appear to have T&Cs although top line/s are missing.

 

The credit limit is mentioned. Some of the words are diiifcult to read. They haven't signed the form. Some T&Cs are on the back but could have been photocopied from anywhere??

 

Does this agreement contain the prescribed items and is it enforceable?

 

Thanks

 

Interweb

 

[nevos]

Hi, this might help:-

 

5.The fact that the terms and conditions were not readable and were referred to in the Agreement means that the Claimant did not comply with Regulation 2(1) of the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1557) (“the 1983 Regulations) which states:-

 

2 Legibility of notices and copy documents and wording of prescribed Forms

(1) The lettering in every notice in a Form prescribed by these Regulations and in every copy of an executed agreement, security instrument or other document referred to in the Act and delivered or sent to a debtor, hirer or surety under any provision of the Act shall, apart from any signature, be easily legible and of a colour which is readily distinguishable from the .

 

[creditcardmug]

Its too small mate can you enlarge it?

[interweb]

Hi

 

Hmmm, not quite sure how I enlarge. I thought if you click on the thumbnail it would automatically open up a large version in your browser and you could then zoom to get a larger version. However I notice people do have large scanned copies in their messages, so not quite sure how they do that, as I have tried copying and pasting and it doesnt appear to work.

 

Any ideas?

 

 

Thanks

 

Interweb

[cashins]

Hi

 

Set up an account with Photobucket on the web, it's free to do.

 

Upload you scanned images to that, then attach those to your post.

 

David

[interweb]

Hi

 

Thanks for the help. Here goes:-

 

 

 

 

[creditcardmug]

The question is, is that the front and back of the same document?, does the bit with your sig on say the T&Cs are overleaf?, or are these two sections in fact both on the same page?

 

The thing is that to be enforceable the Prescribed Terms must be part of the signature document, they cannot be found elsewhere.

 

Its possible that the bottom scan is in fact another document entirel, and therefore has nothing to do with the top scan.

[ladybird17]

This is exactly the same as mine. Consumer Law Barrister, him say "no 'tis not an executed agreement"! thus legal aid awarded to litigate against them.

[interweb]

Hi Ladybird17

 

Thanks for the info. That's great news.

 

What are you litigating against them for? And how is it going?

 

Regards

 

Interweb

[ladybird17]

no agreement = no debt

[ladybird17]

Counsel only just been instructed so can't really tell you much more at present.

[cashins]

Be interested to see how you get on.

 

MBNA don't seem to be very keen on courtrooms, unless of course they are very sure of winning. Normal policy with an iffy agreement is to sell it off and let some lowlife DCA chance their arm.

 

Not at all sure which way the cat will jump.

 

David

[creditcardmug]

Its a greedy american company, they are just trying to salvage what they can from the people in the uk that they hae been screwing for years, they know they are on to a loser with this though IMHO

[cashins]

I suspect the ag is already on the for sale list.

 

David

[ladybird17]

it's already been passed to Arrow/Global - still trying to get one of them to take responsibility - neither seem too keen. (I wonder why?) If there's not a positive response, then we're going for both of them.

Mind you it was passed to Arrow/Global around November 2007 - not a dickie bird from them since first solicitor's letter to them pointing out agreement was not an agreement. Then it went to Moore's (MBNA solicitor's) who write unintelligible letters - in fact, in one of them, they write back to my solicitor "what you have been sent is clearly not an executed agreement"...and then another 2 pages of mumbo jumbo ending up with that they feel "their client" has no case to answer and they will pursue through the courts.

 

So we write to them saying, it's not an executed agreement, they reply saying clearly it's not, but are going to pursue through the courts - (which they haven't) - so if anyone can make sense of their reasoning they are definitely cleverer than either me, or my lawyers, or the barrister!

Edited September 3, 2008 by ladybird17

[interweb]

Hi Labybird17

 

I'm still abit confused. What are you taking MBNA to court over? I take it your solicitior will proove that the debt is not enforceable, what happens then?

 

Thanks

 

Interweb

[interweb]

Hi

 

Can someone explain what is going on here.

 

I had an original alleged debt with MBNA, which was then passed to Debt Clear Recoveries and Invesigations Limited. Would this have been sold off? I always thought that that was the case.

 

Now 6 months later I have had a letter from Restons Solicitors claiming that MBNA want paying etc.

 

Was the debt never sold on or has MBNA bought it back, if so why would they?

 

I'm a bit confused. Any thoughts anyone?

 

Also I CCAd Debt Clear Recoveries in May and to this date to agreement has shown up.

 

Thanks

 

Interweb

[SteveH2508]

It sounds like we are in the same batch of 'accounts'. I've had exactly the same sets of numptys trying it on at the same timescales. As I'm sure you've realised, MBNA's admin sucks. Restons are saying that MBNA claim they have provided the documents to me - well I don't think a judge is going to be very impressed with the inky blob which they claim is a Credit Agreement.

 

BTW - have you checked any Default Notice carefully? (particularly the Account number)

[MARTIN3030]

Hardly suprised you are confused-This murky world confuses everyone.

Ok I have some info for you.

MBNA are of course sellers of debts as well as collectors.Their CCA licence details (03633167) shows offices for both correspondence and registered offices in ChesterThey show a substantial list of named officers and also 6 Managers.They are licensed to trade OFF premises.

 

Debt Clear recoveries appear to be a company Associated with them and was formerly known as D C R 1 licence number 0476739

 

They are showing as having 5 officers.Correspondence address is given for Manchester as is Principal base of business-Dalton Street.

However their registered offices are listed in Chester Business park-no coincedence there then ? These are not licenced to trade OFF premises.

 

 

Restons Solicitors are based in Warrington.Their CCA licence 0529641 shows them as Restons Management services Ltd.They are not licenced to canvass off premises.The persons responsible for running the organisation show up as 2 named Restons individuals plus another.

 

 

So this explains things a little better.

OFT debt collecting guidelines have info about third party collection and also using other agents whilst continuing to press for payments.

 

Hope this helps.

 

 

 

If you believe that Restons are acting outside what is within their remit then use the 2008 unfair consumer contract terms.

You can also file a complaint with the Law Society.

 

 

Just one other thing

 

 

MBNA current CCA licence 0363167 (MBNA Europe bank Ltd)

expires on 18th of this month.

 

WE WILL WE WATCHING

Edited September 6, 2008 by MARTIN3030

[cashins]

I'm still abit confused. What are you taking MBNA to court over? I take it your solicitior will proove that the debt is not enforceable, what happens then?

 

 

This is the endgame.

 

MBNA are then stuffed, hopefully with costs, have to remove the default and with a bit of luck have to pay damages for defaulting the agreement in the first place.

 

This is not something you take on lightly and you need to be very sure of yor ground. If you lose then you are stuufed.

 

David

[tinkerbell20]

subbing

[cashins]

I don't think a judge is going to be very impressed with the inky blob which they claim is a Credit Agreement.

 

Snap, I have one of those.

 

David

[cashins]

MBNA current CCA licence 0363167 (MBNA Europe bank Ltd)

expires on 18th of this month.

 

 

With the immunity they seem to enjoy from the authorities, it probably woudn't matter if they let it run out.

 

Dvaid

[MARTIN3030]

It seems so yes-we know how inventive they can be when it comes to making things up to suit themselves-this site is full of examples.

[alfwithhair]

I am in the same boat with MBNA and Debt Clear Manchester, but have yet to hear from Restons as yet.

 

All I have received as a vald CCA is a barely legable application form and a copy of MBNA current terms and conditions.

 

Application was made in 1996 when the card was operated under A & L.

As soon as MBNA received the CCA request they immediately stopped my reduced payment plan, issued a default notice under another account number and got Debt Clear involved.

 

MBNA adament they have sent all that is required by law. Debt Clear now threatening court action.

 

I have been reliably informed that MBNA charged off accounts before they even issue a default and set up a new account. Call it account number x : they serve the default on account x : but when they take you to court they use an earlier account number for the particulars.

 

It apears to be all cloak and dagger with MBNA, You can not get to the bottom off anything. They told me in writting they had never agreement to a reduced payment plan? Yet I have it in writing that they did, and were quite happy to accept the payment until the CCA request arrived on their doorstep.

 

They are tricky customers to deal with, so be wary of anything they say. Even if it is in writing.