Arrows/Marlins Claimform - old LLoyds loan no CCA-**WON..DISC'D+COSTS**

[tinkerbell20]

Is this still relevant though?

 

Haven't the courts decided that the Claimant doesn't need to provide a signed agreement anymore?

 

 

Take it you're referring to Rankine.......................nope they still need a signed agreement containing the prescribed terms

[wakeywakey]

Right, so I attach both the Draft order and Other info to the Allocation Questionaire and send that to the court.

 

I then copy the 2 above and the Allocation Questionaire and send it to the claimant.

 

And I dont need to wait for the courts approval to do so?

 

Phew, hope I know what I'm doing!

[surfaceagentx20]

Return the completed AQ to the court only, no earlier than the last day for filing it. Don't send anything to the Claimant.

 

x20

[wakeywakey]

x20, sorry, im confused again.

Is the info in the link at 18.12 not right then?

 

That is saying to send to both.

What about that draft order then?

[surfaceagentx20]

PT suggests the delivery of the AQ to the other side as a matter of decency. That's fair enough and ought to be the way. Trouble is however and for my two cents, my experience is the other side don't conduct themselves in a way which puts 'decency' towards you as a consideration. I think you only need look around threads on this site to discover Creditor-Claimants rarely [1] deliver AQs to court on time and [2] copy the AQs to the Defendant.

 

Copying your AQ to the opponent ahead of when they file their own provides the other side with an advantage in knowing something about your case and the directions if any you will require. They will adjust their position to suit. You won't be given the same opportunity.

 

CPR 26.3(6) requires the AQ to be filed at court only. There is no requirement to serve. Answer the question in the AQ form about having delivered a copy of it to the other side with a 'No'. Don't send the AQ or your draft directions to your opponent.

 

Worse, I'd be inclined to file the AQ 7 days later than the date specified in the AQ for doing so, just in case the Claimant was good enough to send me a copy of his AQ so that I could then take advantage myself. But then again, others may be phased by operating with such wickedness.

 

x20

[creditcardmug]

X20 ive often thought this myself but followed pts advice on it, as for filing 7 days late, dont you leave yourself open to default judgment, obviously not from what youve said, but just wanted to be sure

[surfaceagentx20]

CCM,

No there's no risk of a default judgment. Fact is in practice the DJ won't look at the file for about a week after the last day for filing AQs and if AQs aren't filed by when he looks at it, he'll just issue an order directing the filing of AQs at some later time 'or else'. You must have seen threads with that kind of order around here too yeah?

 

I'm not advocating waiting for the DJ's final 'or else' order. Just lodge the AQ when necessary which is not the same as when required. And don't do the opponent any favours.

 

x20

[wakeywakey]

I see what your saying.

However Im still confused as to whether I still send the draft order to the court.

 

I am presuming I do, but then how does the claimant get opportunity to respond?

 

And, wouldnt it be in my interest to show that the claimant doesnt have any paperwork (agreements, defaults etc)?

[surfaceagentx20]

Wakey,

Certainly send your draft order to court. And fill the AQ with stuff about how the Claimant lacks relevant paperwork As for how the Claimant gets to respond, short answer is he doesn't. Tough being a Claimant en' it?

 

x20

[wakeywakey]

so how does the claimant know they have 14 days to respond?

Does the court send them the draft order?

 

If you are saying (and I think you are) that the claimant doesnt receive anything, can't they just say at the hearing that I never asked for anything?

 

Also, how does one tell whether it is small claims they need?

[surfaceagentx20]

Wakey,

We may be at cross purposes. What I'm saying is send your AQ in with your proposed directions. The other side should do the same. This is not a situation where on filing AQs the parties then get a chance whether in 14 days or some other period to respond to the other side's proposed directions. The AQ directs a date by when AQs are to be filed at court to include proposed directions. There will come a time when the DJ will sit down to formulate a set of directions to control the case and in doing that he will consider any proposed directions suggested by the parties. He will then send out an order. He will not send out his own draft for discussion purposes.

 

That is not to say the parties do not have an opportunity to discuss directions. They do at any time up to when they file their AQs. The AQ states that parties should agree directions wherever possible. Whether or not the parties manage to agree directions or even bother to is another matter entirely.

 

Money claims are allocated to track by reference to the value of the sums in issue after deduction of interest and costs claims.

 

A claim with less than £5,000.00 in issue gets allocated to the small claims track

A claim with between £5,000.00 and £15,000.00 gets allocated to the fast track

A claim with more than £15,000.00 in issue gets allocated to the multi track

 

x20

[wakeywakey]

Right, I think I've got it.

 

Does the fact that I have received this mean the claimants are continuing their claim?

[surfaceagentx20]

Affirmative.

 

x20

[wakeywakey]

Info here to help with the AQ

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/131499-directions-n150-n149-allocation.html

 

You dont pay a fee to file yours, but they have to pay a substantial fee to file theirs, this is where a lot of these weak cases fall over!!

 

I did say I think I had it, but I haven't.

What happens if they don't file their AQ?

 

I can't understand why they are continuing when they don't have any agreement, default notice etc.

 

Can I just confirm with you guys that they can't win this case without those items?

And could you remind me whats to stop them producing them at the hearing

[creditcardmug]

The court usually gives them a few more weeks to pay the AQ fee, if not its thrown out.

 

why are they continuing? its like a game of poker they are trying to unnerve you.

 

There wont be a hearing if they dont pay the AQ fee, and further on they will have to pay a hearing fee as well.

[jonni2bad]

I can't understand why they are continuing when they don't have any agreement, default notice etc...

 

Because they play the percentages game. You are one of hundreds being taken to court and the chances are that 95% will do nothing, cave in and try and come to some agreement re: payment, or await the result of what they perceive to be a foregone conclusion in Court - not knowing they might be able to do something about it.

 

Of the remaining "5%" some will try and defend but do it badly.

 

There will then be a few that seek advice and take them on. You're in the last bit

 

Their percentage game means that they don't need to worry (yet) about not having the paperwork needed - they win so many that the few who get away are, for the most part, irrelevant.

[creditcardmug]

You put it better than i did but thats the jist.

 

Cheers CCM

[wakeywakey]

OK, thanks pal.

 

So, to make sure I have this right.

 

When the judge reads my AQ, he will then hopefully make a order using my directions as previously discribed on this thread.

Then the claimant will have 14 days to respond by sending me the agreement and default etc (which they don't have)

 

What happens if they dont send anything?

Why would there still be a hearing if they don't have the relevant documents?

 

This is where I am getting confused

[creditcardmug]

Just to be clear, the judge will look at BOTH AQs and consider whats in them, he will then make an order of his own choosing, not necessarily having anything to do with whats in the AQs, no one knows what will be in that order until he makes it, including the amount of time given to comply with it.

 

He may make an order for the claimant to file and serve XYZ within X days for instance, or the claim be struck out, we just dont know untill it happens.

[creditcardmug]

Thats why you have to be clear when drafting your directions, making it clear to the judge what you require from the claimant to move the case forward. and if the claimant complies you need x time to prepare an amended defence in the light of the new info, if the claimant doesnt comply within the time period you require his case to be struck out.

 

What hes doing at this stage is called case management

[surfaceagentx20]

If you need help with formulating a set of directions yell here.

 

x20

[wakeywakey]

Once again, thanks guys. A lot clearer and happier now that I know what to expect.

 

I am using the directions from the link in thread 89

 

Is that sufficient do you think?

 

If not, could do with some help

[pt2537]

X20 ive often thought this myself but followed pts advice on it, as for filing 7 days late, dont you leave yourself open to default judgment, obviously not from what youve said, but just wanted to be sure

can i just point out that its not my advice to serve a copy of the AQ on the other side, however it is something which has been advocated by the forum since i have been a member

 

i have merely followed the advice given out for over two years

 

do i file a copy with the other side in my day job? no but then again i tend to do a lot differently in the day job than i do on the forum, thats because i am totally mindful that the people on here need assistance and not legalese speak, they need to understand their cases in their own minds as they wont have the benefit of assistance in the trial in most cases

 

my 2p

[wakeywakey]

Do I need to send the AQ as recorded delivery?

[creditcardmug]

Send it by SD 2 days before its due, unless you can physically take it into the court, dont send a copy to the other side.