Halifax credit card now 1st credit

[42man]

And as for disputed accounts it is in the OFT's guidelines on debt collection - 2.8 section (K) -

k. not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or

disputed debt.

[SHELBELLE]

Hi all

 

Have put together a very simple letter, and just wanted someone to make sure I have things covered or would need to edit it at all.

 

Copy attached.

 

Thanks

 

S.B.

[tiglet]

Looks fine to me.

[SHELBELLE]

Tiglet

 

Ok thank you, I will get it off in post today.

 

 

S.B.

[SHELBELLE]

Hi all

 

Just had another thought.....

 

 

When and how do I try to reclaim unfair charges on the account or can I not do that until a valid CCA is provided?

 

ERM think I just answered my own question but any advice would still be appreciated.

 

Thanks

 

S.B.

[SHELBELLE]

Hi all

 

Received the attached from Halifax on Friday.

 

Really want to know if CCA is enforceable, I have a funny feeling it may well be!!!

 

Also still not provided me with the missing statements and their letter in post #24 states they provided me with the terms and conditions when I opened the account in 1992. Well if we look at the date stamp on the so called CCA it shows a date of 08 Mar 04. Is this relevant at all?

 

Can anyone have a look at the attached and let me know what they think?

 

Many thanks as always

 

S.B.X

[SHELBELLE]

Just bumping this up so hopefully someone can check the CCA.

 

Thanks.

[tiglet]

It doesn't look to me as if it complies as it doesn't contain the prescribed terms.

[SHELBELLE]

Tiglet

 

Thank you for your comments.

 

Maybe someone else may like to have a look?

 

Many thanks

 

S.B.

[SHELBELLE]

Hi all

 

After receiving the so called CCA and letter as per my post no 31, Halifax sent me another letter enclosing the same so called CCA, but this time they have 10 loose pages showing terms and conditions etc etc. They are not attached to "CCA" and are mere photocopies of, in my opinion, latest terms and conditions. Am I right in thinking that the late payment charges in 2004 were £25.00 and not £12.00?

 

I can scan and post all 10 pages if necessary but my point above leads me to believe that these are current terms(if they are terms) and not terms from 2004

 

Can anyone help please???

 

Thank you

 

S.B.

[tiglet]

It was around £25 then, not £10, so it looks as if it is the latest set of T&C's.

[SHELBELLE]

Tiglet thank you for your reply.

 

Yes I thought so.

 

So these terms that have been sent showing the £12.00 charges, does this make the CCA unenforceable?

 

I am assuming that they should of sent the terms that applied when the account was opened?

 

Also I don't know if anyone can advise if the documents have to be attached to each other as they probably would of been at the outset?

 

Should I send a letter stating these points?

 

Thanks

 

S.B.

[SHELBELLE]

Also I wanted to change the title to this thread can anyone help please??

[SHELBELLE]

Just bumping up!!

 

Thanks.

[SHELBELLE]

Would anyone care to comment please??

 

 

Thank you

 

S.B.

[blind-as-a-bat]

Those terms and financial formation appear to be on the reverse of the signed document and it looks as if the proscribed terms are there, but something looks odd, did you holepunch that document before scaning it SHELBELLE?

Edited December 8, 2008 by blind-as-a-bat

[SHELBELLE]

Hi Bllind

 

OK here goes:~

 

The document received in my post #31 had not been hole punched prior to scanning. I have had a closer look down the left hand side of the document and can just make out some wording which includes "signature only required" !! Not sure if this means anything relevant or not.

 

You are correct about the terms being on the reverse of this document but I had received a response from Tiglet siggesting that the prescribed terms were not included.

 

I also have doubts as to why Halifax sent 10 pages of terms under separate cover with a duplicate so called CCA a few days after I received the one that I have posted, it just seems to me that if all the terms were correct on the reverse of the CCA,or application form as it looks to me, then why would they bother sending out a further 10 pages??

 

Also as previously mentioned, the terms that were received second they state the late payment fee etc as being £12.00 now back in 2004 it was £25.00.

 

Any further help or comments as to if this is a properly executed agreement or not would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks

 

 

S.B.

[SHELBELLE]

I am confused.com!!!!

[blind-as-a-bat]

So why has the reverse plainly got holes punched in it, but not the front?

 

Me thinks Halifax are trying to make an unenforceable agreemant enforceable

 

those terms certainly where photo copied onto the back, if you look there is evidence of creasing as well that is not evident on the front.

 

The question is where they there when it was presented to you for signing?

 

All the prescribed terms bit confuses me too, but if that "back" was added later it certainly did not contain the proscribed terms when you signed it:wink:

Edited December 8, 2008 by blind-as-a-bat

[SHELBELLE]

Blind

 

I think that I must of hole punched the reverse after I photocopied it to delete personal info before scanning, but have checked the original and that had no hole punch marks on it.

 

I am confident that you are correct when you state it has been copied on at a later date as I have checked the duplicate 2nd agreement that was received with the (in my opinion) current terms and the reverse of the agreement is a single page on it's own, i.e. 2 pages as oppose to 1. Me thinks that they have made a relevant mistake;)

 

Also the terms that are on the reverse state late payment charges etc as being £25.00 whereas the 10 page set of terms state £12.00, are they meant to send historic and current terms with a CCA request.

 

Shall I respond or just sit and wait for the next letter?

Thanks

 

S.B.

[babydoll0141917]

Hi

there is a few of us on here dealing with halifax..we all seem to have the front pages the same :)as yours and different stuff on the reverse..the front is an application form...nothing on the front states PTO..conditions overleaf on reverse or nothing..there is no page numbers the codes on the front and back dont match..MMM bit iffy me thinks..

[SHELBELLE]

Babydoll

 

Thanks for your post, I am beginning to think the same...a bit iffy!!

 

Especially as the 1st one received was a double sided page and then the second one was the same but photocpied on to 2 separate pages!! Also why they took the option of sending 10 pages of current terms with the second one makes it look IMHO like they are tryimg to cover their a**es to me.

 

Did you respond with anything to them, wondered if I should send a reponse or not bother??

 

Thanks

 

S.B.

[babydoll0141917]

hi yes i had the same the first was a bit tatty lookin..then they sent again on new paper but on 2 pages in stead of back an front ,,this is the nxt letter to send..then sit back and wait

 

Dear Sirs,

 

Account no xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

 

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

This account is in Dispute .

 

On xx/xx/2007 I wrote to xxxxxxxxx requesting that xxxxxxx supply me a true copy of the executed credit agreement for this account.

In response to this request I was supplied a mere application form which did not comply with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

The document sent purporting to be a credit agreement does not contain any of the prescribed terms as required by section 60(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) made under the authority of the “1974 Act” sets out what the prescribed terms are, I refer you to Schedule 6 Column 2 of SI 1983/1553 for the definition of what is required. Suffice to say none of the terms are present in the document

 

Since this document does not contain the required prescribed terms it is rendered unenforceable by s127 (3) consumer Credit Act 1974, which states

 

127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

 

This situation is backed by case law from the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (House of Lords) the highest court in the land. Your attention is drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 the agreement cannot be enforced.

 

In addition should you continue to pursue me for this debt you will be in breach of the OFT guidelines, I draw your attention to the Office of Fair Trading’s guidance on debt collection

The OFT guidance which was issued July 2003 (updated December 2006) relating to debt collections and what the OFT considers unfair, I have enclosed an excerpt from page 5 of the guidance which states

 

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

 

h. Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment

 

I require you to produce a compliant copy of my credit agreement to confirm I am liable to you or any organisation, which you represent for this alleged debt, if you cannot do so I require written clarification that this is the case. Should you ignore this request I will report you to the Office of Fair Trading to consider your suitability to hold a credit licence in addition to a complaint to Trading Standards, as you will be in breach of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40

 

Since the agreement is unenforceable and the default notice is non compliant, it would be in everyone’s interest to consider the matter closed and for your client to write the debt off. I suggest you give serious consideration to this as any attempt of litigation will be vigorously defended and I will counter claim for all quantifiable damages

 

I respectfully request a response to this letter in 14 days

 

 

I trust this out lines the situation

 

also if you look on the signature strip its says you have received a copy of the conditions of use which avers them to being in another document

Edited December 8, 2008 by babydoll0141917

[SHELBELLE]

Babydoll

 

Ok great stuff thank you very much. Could you supply me with a link to your thread so I can see your order of events if you don't mind?

 

 

Many thanks

 

S.B.

[babydoll0141917]

iqor/halifax CCA there you go hun,,,and also if you look at the signature strip in small writing it says ( you have received a copy of the conditions of use) which avers to them being in a different doc