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Parking ticket..but a few laws seem to be ignored?


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that dual wording has a whole TMA saga behind it. Nose bleed inducing stuff. it is to do with two tier authorities and the TMA mis-defiinng 'the authority' and stuffing up off-street enforcement. Ting;s assessment of the state of the TMA is spot on in my view. looks like you have them well and truly stuffed from what we have seen to date. the issue seems as though it will shift to refunds. I suppose what you want of for this to go to adjudication otherwise the council will just back out to avoid being found out. Meanwhile get a friend to FOI the council re number of tickets issued at this location. And get them to ask for the report from the last audit of signs and markings. they have been decriminalised long enough to have had several of these.

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The PCN was issued and you can all clearly see it lists me as being parked in Albert Street. This is not correct because I was parked in the area covered by the GL1 Leisure Centre TRO. This latter TRO DOES NOT mention anything about "Prohibition of Waiting" it just mentions about parking bays and paying for a ticket etc. The controlled hours for this TRO are 09:00 - 15:00 Mondays to Saturdays. I was issued the PCN at 18:15 so this is outside of the controlled hours.

 

TROs can get amended and as such all TROs need to be taken as a whole. If a street is no parking at anytime and a disabled bay is added for example, the new TRO will be for the bay and the rest still stands. It may be that bays for pay and display got added and a TRO was created to implement them, the rest of the street could remain unaffected. A TRO does not need to be entirely re-writen every time a section is changed.

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TROs can get amended and as such all TROs need to be taken as a whole. If a street is no parking at anytime and a disabled bay is added for example, the new TRO will be for the bay and the rest still stands. It may be that bays for pay and display got added and a TRO was created to implement them, the rest of the street could remain unaffected. A TRO does not need to be entirely re-writen every time a section is changed.

 

Point taken G&M but I checked with the relevant Highways Department and this is the ONLY TRO for GL1 Leisure Centre. The bays are in a totally different area and always have been. I reckon they painted the double yellow lines as an after thought (Pictures make them look DIY) but they never amended the TRO.

 

The important point is the PCN says I was parked in Albert Street when I clearly was not. I checked the TRO for Albert Street and that area is some 100 metres away. Even if the OS Map or Street Map could be interpreted that I was in Albert Street, the accompanying plan of the TRO does not show the area where my car was parked as "restricted".

 

The TRO for GL1 Leisure Centre has all of the areas clearly defined and my car was parked in that area. The TRO mentioned paying for a ticket, max length of stay etc and more importantly states that the controlled hours are 09:00 - 15:00 Mondays to Saturdays. My PCN was issued at 18:15!

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Not disputing what you say but it does seem odd to put in a TRO for pay and display bays if the street outside the bays is not restricted but looks like the Council are as confused as we are and will cancel the PCN.

 

I know you're not and I fully agree about the TRO for the parking bays. I suppose they have to put one in place or they cannot enforce the charges.

 

My take on it is this.... I think they put in the parking bays and issued the TRO accordingly. They then put in the yellow lines later to prevent people parking there. You can see the lines are DIY and definitely an after thought. As is the norm, they couldn't be bothered to amend the TRO and because the area could be loosely labelled Albert Street the CEOs are just issuing PCNs accordingly. The fact the controlled area for Albert Street is 100 metres away is irrelevant to them - they simply issue the tickets and people pay them...until I got one.

 

Hopefully I will get this cancelled and then I will check the number of tickets issued etc.

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Hopefully I will get this cancelled and then I will check the number of tickets issued etc.

 

It will be hard to prove any wrong doing as a search will just show up PCNs issued in Albert st not ones issued outside Albert St and issued as if they were in it, if you get my drift?

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the TRO is heavily deficient. And I haven't read it all yet. I suggest posting it up on filehippo or one of the other public repositories. these are public documents there is no copyright problem etc.

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My take on it is this.... I think they put in the parking bays and issued the TRO accordingly. They then put in the yellow lines later to prevent people parking there. You can see the lines are DIY and definitely an after thought. As is the norm, they couldn't be bothered to amend the TRO.

 

A different but possibly very real perspective.

 

On this and other forums we often concern ourselves with the law and relevant rules, regulations and procedures. here's an alternative 'real life' viewpoint for you>>

 

Is this the bit we're supposed to put them yellas on 'arry?

Dunno, maybe I should phone Mr P.

Oh don't bother with that Piers Morgan 'e never answers the phone and wouldn't know anyway.

Ok bung 'em there then - no carry on a bit - just up to that last bollard looks about right.

Ain't it on that diagram they gave us?

Oh b******s to that I can't be arsed to read that rubbish, we ain't been down the cafe yet.

 

If you think that's an exaggeration I can tell you that I know of it happening. A London Borough, pulled up by what became a serial appellant on the basis of flawed road markings (no he wasn't a nut - they kept ignoring the permit they'd issued to him anyway?) suddenly folded and blanked out all the road markings.

This was followed by a visit by 'arry' and his crew - and you can guess the rest. Yep, exactly the same flaws as before, LOL! When asked at the time, dear old 'arry said something along the lines of " listen you ******* **** (racist comment) I've been 20 years painting parking bays so, just off the boat, you can't tell me nuffing."

 

Kind of explains why a huge number of road markings are illegal doesn't it. Not that I have anything against the operatives - I actually think it is more down to inept management and training.

-

Err, rant over but hope it made ya smile!

-

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A different but possibly very real perspective.

 

On this and other forums we often concern ourselves with the law and relevant rules, regulations and procedures. here's an alternative 'real life' viewpoint for you>>

 

Is this the bit we're supposed to put them yellas on 'arry?

Dunno, maybe I should phone Mr P.

Oh don't bother with that twit 'e never answers the phone and wouldn't know anyway.

Ok bung 'em there then - no carry on a bit - just up to that last bollard looks about right.

Ain't it on that diagram they gave us?

Oh b******s to that I can't be arsed to read that rubbish, we ain't been down the cafe yet.

 

If you think that's an exaggeration I can tell you that I know of it happening. A London Borough, pulled up by what became a serial appellant on the basis of flawed road markings (no he wasn't a nut - they kept ignoring the permit they'd issued to him anyway?) suddenly folded and blanked out all the road markings.

This was followed by a visit by 'arry' and his crew - and you can guess the rest. Yep, exactly the same flaws as before, LOL! When asked at the time, dear old 'arry said something along the lines of " listen you ******* **** (racist comment) I've been 20 years painting parking bays so, just off the boat, you can't tell me nuffing."

 

Kind of explains why a huge number of road markings are illegal doesn't it. Not that I have anything against the operatives - I actually think it is more down to inept management and training.

-

Err, rant over but hope it made ya smile!

-

 

Hi Ting, I love to start the day with a good chuckle :grin: :grin:

 

I was thinking about the same sort of thing..I think they may well have been painting the yellows during pub opening hours - you could be semi-conscious and get there in three stumbles!! - as the lines diverge and get rather wobbly. If all else fails, I am sure the lines are nowhere near the requisite dimensions.

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It will be hard to prove any wrong doing as a search will just show up PCNs issued in Albert st not ones issued outside Albert St and issued as if they were in it, if you get my drift?

 

Hi G&M

 

I want to do the research because this is a real pain for most users of GL1. I am there almost every day of the week and know both a lot of other visitors and a lot of the staff. They are all fed up with the amount of tickets issued - it seems like a real hotspot for the local CEOs!!!:eek:

 

Last night I found at least 5 people who have had a PCN for parking in the GL1 area but the PCN listed Albert Street. That's just 1 night and those people also said.."So and so got one and the assistant manager also got one last week!" There must be literally hundreds if not thousands of PCNs incorrectly issued.

 

Time will tell and hopefully it will be found in my favour!! At least then a few other people can get their money back.

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I will now post the TROs for the the two relevant areas - GL1 Leisure Centre and Albert Street. All comments on the validity, legality, errors etc all welcomed

 

This is the Albert Street TRO...didn't reproduce the map because it warns of copyright issues and reproduction etc. Better safe than sorry. If someone can assure me that posting the images is okay then I will also post them.

 

AlbertStreetTRO1of3.jpg

AlbertStreetTRO2of3.jpg

AlbertStreetTRO3of3.jpg

Edited by changy
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  • 3 weeks later...

I am sorry for not being back on the forum, I have had some surgery so I have been recovering of late.

 

Well I waited for my letter to arrive and then I duly appealed.

 

I spoke with quite a few people who had also been issued with a PCN for parking in the same area. One guy has received FOUR PCNs for that area. He talked to the CEO but he may as well have talked to the man in the moon for all the good it did him. He realised that talking to them was a total waste of time so he just ignored them.

 

This morning a letter arrived from the council. It lists the details and then there is one very pleasant line..

 

"I am pleased to inform you that I have accepted your explanation with regards to the Penalty Charge Notice detailed above"

 

Thanks go to everyone on here who helped me.

 

I have now started a bit of a crusade and I want to find out just how many people have been issued with PCNs for that particular area. I know of at least 10 from people I know at GL1 and to be honest I wasn't exactly broadcasting it. I am sure there will be hundreds if not thousands of incorrectly issued PCNs.

 

Any ideas of how to get the best coverage for this?

 

Thanks

 

Changy:lol:

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Any ideas of how to get the best coverage for this?

 

Thanks

 

Changy:lol:

Regional TV news programs tend to like this sort of thing. You could also try local newspapers, radio stations etc. :)

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This does not constitute legal advice and is not represented as a substitute for legal advice from an appropriately qualified person or firm.

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