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Darset v MBNA


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Shadow, does that comment regarding response mean that they have to respond in any way or do they have to respond with an acceptable answer and not just send a computer generated holding letter.

 

I can just see certain CAGgers asking all sorts of perfectly reasonable questions - lots of questions! All perfectly legitimate questions of course! I wouldn't want to bombard the poor darlings with as many letters as they have sent me! That would be harassment now wouldn't it?

 

DPM

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Shadow, does that comment regarding response mean that they have to respond in any way or do they have to respond with an acceptable answer and not just send a computer generated holding letter.

 

I can just see certain CAGgers asking all sorts of perfectly reasonable questions - lots of questions! All perfectly legitimate questions of course! I wouldn't want to bombard the poor darlings with as many letters as they have sent me! That would be harassment now wouldn't it?

 

DPM

 

I think its meaning no response, that said if your not getting the answers you want then you should ultimately issue a formal complaint requiring your answers, then when they responsd (normally in 4-8 weeks) they'll tell you that you now can go to FOS and then you can issue a complaint that costs them.

 

S.

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Bold letters, capitals and exclamation marks seem to have some kind of special magic powers so I thought I would give it a go.

 

I nearly followed your advice in my most recent letter to MBNA but in the end took a more conventional route.

 

Received all in the same post, pretty much, a couple of letters one each from the competitors for the position of Head of Customer Assistance, Paul Campbell and Dee Dillistone, together with a Mickey Mouse default notice from someone else (various things wrong with it which I'll go into another time). Also had a call from another chaser, a more urbane one this time, Richard Phil(l)ips who at least had the confidence his colleagues lacked or perhaps was less ashamed working for MBNA, who kept trying to get me to admit I'd 'spent the money' as he kept putting it. Told him repeatedly that was irrelevant, the point being that MBNA was simply not meeting its legal obligations, to which he remarked that he supposed I'd been advised not to admit it.

 

It seems clear that the default notice is another attempted frightener rather than the real thing - either that or the company is even more monumentally incompetent than I'd thought - but I thought I'd reply to it to avoid raising any concerns prematurely and so sent the letter attached here.

MBNA re default 0.rtf

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I probably should have restrained myself but I was just feeling frustrated having sent numerous well thought out and reasoned letters only to get a garbage-a gram in return. I just got a DN too and in common with a couple of other companies, having corresponded with me at my new address the DN was sent to my old one.

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As MBNA is still trundling down its standard path and paying not the slightest attention to their present failure I thought it was time to put more pressure on them and so I've made a second SAR. This was posted on 18 May and duly delivered to their offices on 19 May, according to Royal Mail. Since sending my earlier SAR in November 2008 I've learned a lot more - from both here and the ICO website - and so on this occasion I sought to cover all angles permitted. In particular, I asked for audio recordings, manually stored material and personal data arising as a result of automatic processing of the account, all of which appear to be covered by the DPA and the ICO's interpretation.

 

The ICO says that audio recordings are covered but that it may be necessary to help the data holder identify where they are by giving date/time information and, ever anxious to be as helpful as possible where darlin' MBNA is concerned, I've included a list of twenty-odd occasions. However I should be surprised if the only access to the substantial audio library which companies such as MBNA keep was by going through them in linear fashion; this would certainly have been true earlier but the consequence of that is that it would be immensely difficult for a bank to abstract a specific recording with a customer for evidence and so I imagine updated systems will use indexes or and/or inverted indexes and, that being so, I would think they would fall clearly within the area the ICO would say should be revealed fully.

 

The manual data storage and the results of personal data from automatic account management are also potentially very fruitful areas and as they're clearly covered it will be interesting to see MBNA's reponse.

 

At any rate the suitably redacted SAR letter is attached. Comments welcome!

MBNA 2nd DPA request 00.rtf

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did mad murdoch ever start his own thread? couldnt find it if he did.

 

I dont think he has, Chippo.

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That looks pretty good to me Darset. I guess we dont hold our breath waiting for this lot.. 40 days will soon pass .:)

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Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

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5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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pity we don't have a solicitor on here who can advise because there must be a breach of law somewhere along the lines. have to dust off my old books, was into it in my uni days.

If you feel I have helped please tickle my scales;)

 

 

MBNA - Ongoing

Egg Loan - Ongoing

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hiya darset

 

im sorry not been around just trying to catch up with all the mbna threads,

 

must get back to business, well with lots of help from cag members and Ell-enn who is a Queen of the legal stuff directed at defending house eviction, im pleased to annouce we kicked butt in the court room and well the judge just liked our paperwork so much he kicked the mortgage lenders butt even harder,,,LMBO:D

 

i helped my friend with her house eviction defence...

 

now back to the humdrum of beating mbna at their silly games too,

 

im back from a worthwhile fight and win,,,,, now nothing really surprises me any more

 

so looking good Darset,,,,will catch up soon

 

laters all have a fun day angel x

Im happy to help with support and my own thoughts, but if I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action.:)

 

my new motto is,,,",Taking back control of your life and home - such peace is priceless"

 

This is all due to truecall device , have a serious peek at this you will be thankful like I am x laters angel :D

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Good SAR darset... only possible criticism is its not an a) b) c) listing which I think is all the lovely people at Chester HQ can handle.

 

Keep up the letter writing, it gives me a wry smile to read and guess how they will attempt to respond i.e. which template letter to send back next :-)

 

S.

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  • 1 month later...

Got the SAR data back earlier this month and am just going through it. Various things jumped out immediately so I've already checked with the ICO whose advice is to write again to them adding on further complaints to my earlier one.

 

Firstly, MBNA said that as they'd sent me the data in December there was no need to repeat all that and so they're sending only new stuff. That's OK, I suppose, although I should have preferred to have had everything a second time so that I could do a close comparison to see if anything had changed. The ICO says that if a second request is made within a 'reasonable' time of the first then there isn't a need to repeat everything and that although 'reasonable' isn't defined that the requests were only six months apart might mean that MBNA's action was acceptable. I think I'm going to suggest to the ICO when I write that six months might be 'reasonable' in an ordinary situation where nothing much is happening but in a state of conflict, as here, it's not.

 

Secondly, MBNA says 'I have been unable to locate recordings of any telephone conversations' and that therefore none are enclosed. Given that I submitted a list of pretty much a score of dates/times which I know to be accurate (having either recorded the conversation myself, duly date stamped, or else noted date and time on other occasions) this seems extraordinary. The implication of no recordings being locatable is that no recordings can subsequently be used in evidence by MBNA and, further, MBNA cannot reasonably challenge recordings I produce myself. Even allowing for the substantial number of telephone conversations daily it seems extraordinary that MBNA can find none and this will certainly be a matter to be referred to the ICO.

 

Thirdly, MBNA has again sidestepped my request for revealing information which relates to their processes of taking decisions about matters like interest rate hikes or securitisation. They've not referred to this but a quick glance at the material suggests that nothing is there so that's a further definite matter for the ICO.

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This appears to be pretty much a standard response from MBNA and others, Darset.. not least those who have been caught out by the information they HAVE supplied.

 

If it can be proved that they are being selective with the information they send out as per your telephone recordings then that would be excellent news.

 

Did you receive the communication / activity log. That seems to be a good source of information. :D

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Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Thanks cB. Yes, I'm pretty sure that there's information missing, probably both as regards telephone transcripts or recordings and information in respect of making decisions about managing the account. I spoke with someone from the ICO on Thursday and they recommended sending in this new information and adding it to the existing complaint. So the next thing is to go through carefully what MBNA has supplied, match it with what I judge they're likely to have (from internal and other evidence), establish clearly from the relevant Act what rights I have and duly send the fully annotated material in to the ICO. (Good job this is temporarily a quiet period!).

 

MBNA has sent the ongoing log of communcation with me, which I guess is what you're referring to, and as you say that's a useful source of information.

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Both accounts have now been passed to capQuest Debt Recovery, about three to four weeks apart, and cQ has been in touch with broadly similar letters. A suitably amended copy of the most recent one is attached as a PDF.

 

I've replied (also attached) saying basically that I don't recognise their right to deal with the issue and advising them to return the stuff to MBNA.

 

When I get a moment I'm going to research capQuest and see if there are links back to MBNA other than as supplier and customer. I've had a quick look on the Companies House web site and there's half a dozen or more capQuest , including a capQuest Group. I've also seen a note that refers to them as ultimately in the control of a Bahamas company owned in turn by a pair of USanian vulture capitalists: see Capquest Debt Recovery - Read This!

 

('Vulture capitalists', in case anyone's unfamiliar with the term, are those who buy up distressed debt at low multiples and seek to recover the full amount; they more typically operate at whole country level and are particularly, and obscenely, active in Africa and to some extent in South America.)

 

If anyone knows about them or has had dealings with them it would be interesting to learn more. Incidentally, 01252 576438 is an ordinary geographical number for capQuest, an alternative to the 0870 premium one.

CapQuest 01.pdf

CapQuest 01.rtf

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that makes me laugh!!! Capquest - HL legal ! MBNA refused to comply request copy of CCA. Refused to stop processing my data. I sent them SAR inc £10 would not forward information. I have now sent recorded delivery SAR again plus £10 to MBNA and capquest. Capquest replied with letter , send your complaint to OFT. Haha, what does OFT do ZERO!!! According to Data protection Act etc they have broken the law etc - but this law is not enforced! MBNA don't give a damm. Next step, i as a consumer will have to enforce the law, cause those in power do zero!!!

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No CCA, No SAR - according to the law the debt is not enforcable! if that is correct, how is it that capquest or anyother debt collection can issue legal notice

 

Candylee have they actually issed proceedings or just threatened it. ??

 

Whilst they shouldnt and its against the OFT debt collection guidelines as you have just stated above the OFT dont always enforce, besides which OFT dont handle individual complaints and the DCA's know this. Its still relevant making complaints tho as the more that do the better it is for the next guy possibly.

 

Do you have your own thread as I'm aware we're posting all over Darsets thread.

 

S.

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  • 1 month later...

Interesting letter from CapQuest, specifically from a Ms McEvoy who calls herself 'Qualilty Assurance Officer', just received:

 

Dear Darset

 

...

 

I confirm that the above referenced account is now in the process of being closed on CapQuest's system in order that it may be returned directly to MBNA. You will receive no further correspondence from CapQuest regarding this account.

 

I thank you for taking the time to resolve this matter and inform CapQuest of your dispute with MBNA in order that this matter may be resolved.

 

Please accept my apologies for any inconvenience this may have caused. Should you wish to discuss this matter further please contact me on 0870 084 3586.

 

So at least CapQuest accepts that a dispute exists even if MBNA doesn't. Presumably also the words "bargepole" and "touch" came to mind as they reviewed the file. What, I wonder, will MBNA do next?

 

Right now I have a complaint in to the ICO - which I'm about to add to - and the support of the local TSO who recommends a complaint to the FOS. I need to think about what's best here but some form of ratchetting up the ante seems appropriate.

 

Anyone been through a similar process with MBNA and either CapQuest or another debt collector?

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Fascinating!

 

Just checked through the information sent to me by MBNA in response to my follow-up SAR and find a couple of letters apparently (but not in practice) sent to me from Sean Humphreys, Director of Customer Satisfaction, one for each account and each dated 14 July which say:

 

" ... Thanks for getting in touch recently. We're pleased to enclose a copy of your most recent terms and conditions.

 

Don't forget some of the other fantastic features of your account:

 

[encouragement to use the internet]

 

We'd like to take this opportunity to thank you for your custom and we look forward to hearing from you soon. ..."

 

Standard meaningless letters, of course, but why they're interesting is because the date is some six weeks after the accounts were apparently terminated and duly sold on to CapQuest!

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Fascinating!

 

Just checked through the information sent to me by MBNA in response to my follow-up SAR and find a couple of letters apparently (but not in practice) sent to me from Sean Humphreys, Director of Customer Satisfaction, one for each account and each dated 14 July which say:

 

" ... Thanks for getting in touch recently. We're pleased to enclose a copy of your most recent terms and conditions.

 

Don't forget some of the other fantastic features of your account:

 

[encouragement to use the internet]

 

We'd like to take this opportunity to thank you for your custom and we look forward to hearing from you soon. ..."

 

Standard meaningless letters, of course, but why they're interesting is because the date is some six weeks after the accounts were apparently terminated and duly sold on to CapQuest!

Hi Darset,

 

I also had one of those, enclosed in the letter responding to my s78 request, but pre dated as yours.

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Darset, CapQuest seem to be passing accounts back pretty swiftly once they have been made aware of a dispute!!.

 

Whether it has anything to do with the number of complaints that have been made to the OFT/TS, I have no idea.. but as you say "bargepole and touch " might possibly apply:D

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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  • 1 month later...

Interesting indeed BI,

 

Might be an idea to start yor own thread, as to why the mess up their paperwork, especially statutory notices, but continue with their claims.

 

And why do they not supply conplient agreements to CCA requests.

 

Paul sounds like a model employee.

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I discovered that DCRI was MBNA's inhouse DCA by checking up on their licence...so I don't think many Cagger's are fooled by that.

 

What I'm curious to know is how Bank Insider can state that he knows what action has been taken specifically in relation to Darset's account.

 

How does he even know who Darset is?? :confused:

 

**User moderated**

 

Him used in place of named individual.

Edited by car2403
**User moderated**

If you feel I've helped then by all means click my star to the left...a simple "thank you" costs nothing! ;)

 

Restons MBNA -v- WelshMam

 

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