Black Horse PPI? need some help and advise

[leehind]

Hi

 

I am just about to claim for a loan i had taken out from black horse in 2004.The loan was for £6000. I found my agreement last night and found out i am paying a payment protection plan (life accendent, sickness unemployment) PPI. It works out at £1297 with a monthly payment of £21.62. It looks like it has not been directly added to the loan but sold seperatly. I no for a fact they did not discuss this PPI with me, i assumed at the time it was compulsory, so i am going down the route of mis-sold..... DO I HAVE A CASE???????????

 

Lee

[adamski]

Hi Lee

Yes you do have case.

Did you have a face to face interview?

If not how did you apply for the loan? Have you paid a premium and are you paying the extra on top of this ie. the £21.62 on top of the £1297.

 

You need to either CCA them or send in a complaint lette the address to write too is

Complaints Analyst

Holbrook House

116 Cockfosters Road

Barnet

EN4 ODY

 

Good luck this lot are worse than their sister company Lloyds they are the sub prime arm of this dispicable company.

 

If I can help you I will they are taking me to court while I have a complaint with them lodged at the FOS.

Edited August 27, 2008 by adamski

[leehind]

hi

 

no its just one payment. but its the monthly loan repayment figure PLUS the insurance. I had a face to face interview and he didnt utter one word about the insurance! many thanks for your help. I have sent them a letter today (black horse) so will let you no what they say. The address you gave me? who are they and what will they do to help me?

[adamski]

Sorry they will not help you!

They deal with refunds so if you have a case they refund.

Did you fill in a demands and needs satement?

All they will do now is send you a credit agreement and any demands and needs statment you may have signed and basically say you signed for it so tough luck.

 

But lets see what they reply with first.

[leehind]

hi

 

all i have done so far is send black horse a letter asking for the insurance premiums back and informed them that i believed the policy was mis sold. Do you think i still have a case? or because i have signed the agreement i would not win the premiums back? sorry feel a bit lost at the moment getting confused...

[adamski]

All you can do now is wait for their reply lets see what they say, should be around a week or so when you hear from them.

[leehind]

hi ok here is there letter responce

 

 

Dear Mr XXX

I am sorry that you feel the Payment protection policy covering your agreement has been mis-sold. It is important that we are made aware of any instance where our customers feel dissatisfied and I have, therefore, investigated the issues you have raised.

Firstly I note that you refer to the financial ombudsman service, Although Black Horse Ltd is now subject to the financial Ombundsman Scheme for general Insurance activity, this was only from 14th January 2005. As the policy you refer to was entered prior to this date, this will not be a matter the Financial Ombudsman can consider should you decide to contact them. Let me, however, respond to your concerns.

When you attended our local office and discussed your application and payment protection insurance with a member of staff, you would have been provided with a leaflet summarising the key benefits and exclusions of the cover. That leaflet also confirmed cover was optional.

Only after you were given the opportunity to read the summary leaflet was the agreement document produced for signature.

I have enclosed a copy of your agreement. The agreement document you have signed clearly shows that payment protection was purchased when entering into this agreement and shows the full cost of that policy. By signing this agreement you have confirmed that you read understood and accepted the terms and conditions of our agreement and wish to purchase PPI.

Furthermore following our acceptance of the agreement the full policy terms were automatically sent at your home addrerss. As well as confirming the policy eligibility and exclusions, those terms also stated that if you were not entirely satisfied with the level of cover provided, it could be cancelled in full and without cost to you by writing to us within 30 days of the date of the agreement. Having checked our records, no such request has been received from you.

In the absence of any documentary evidence in support of your claim, I regret to advise that we are unable to uphold your claim that the PPI was mis-sold and will not cancel the policy from the start of your agreement

Best regards

WHAT DO I DO NEXT???? IS THERE A TEMPLATE LETTER I CAN USE. AND ARE THEY CORRECT I COULD NOT TAKE THIS TO THE FINANCIAL OMBUDSMAN?

[leehind]

ok done some research. The financial obmundsman can not help me (Black Horse are correct on this count) the FOShave said that due to the loan being taken out prior to 14th january 2005 they can not pursue it for me they also checked to see if they were a member of the GISC in 2004. If they were they could help but they didnt become a memer until 2005. So i am stuck!!!! also spoke to FSA and they cant help.

 

Looks like my only option is the small claims track!!!!

 

can any moderator help?

[wills7]

I am in exactlly the same boat - pre 2005 blah blah blah... any advice on the next step much appreciated..

[Fred_Funk]

From the Which website?

 

Mis-selling before January 2005

 

The FOS is able to deal with complaints about sales before 14 January 2005, if, for example the policy was sold by a high street bank or the firm was a member of the General Insurance Standards Council (GISC). If the firm you dealt with wasn't either of these, but was a member of the Finance & Leasing Association (FLA) then the FLA may deal with your complaint, rather than the FOS. The firm you have complained to must tell you which body your complaint can be referred to in their rejection letter.

 

So, assuming Which? has got it right, and I've no reason to think otherwise, it looks like you probably should be complaining to the FOS and even if it isn't Black Horse were obliged to tell you who it is you should be complaining to.

 

Naughty, naughty!

 

I appreciate the FOS said they couldn't help but, in this instance, I'm not convinced they're right. Try ringing them back, explaining what Which? say, and asking for clarification.

 

Fred_Funk

[leehind]

still cant help me so i am going to go down the court route as this will be quicker anyway. need help on what to put on the particulars of claim form. anyone got a template i can use.

[leehind]

anyone else taken a claim via money claim. how far did it get?

[Paintball]

Hi Leehind

 

Before you go down the Court route, I would suggest that you send another letter to Black Horse. This will be your Letter Before Action and will clearly set out your case for mis-selling. They will still tell you that you don't have a case and fob you off, then you send your '7 days to reconsider before I file my claim on (name the date)' letter.

 

IT is important to go through this process to demonstrate that you have a) set out clearly the reasons why you believe PPI has been mis-sold and b) given the lender every opportunity to defend their position and provide evidence that they have acted fairly and followed FSA guidelines.

 

My view is that they haven't followed guidelines and you have a case. It will be a tough fight but worth it.

 

Can I suggest that you send the following letter:

 

 

 

Date

 

 

Re: Account XXXX

 

 

LETTER BEFORE ACTION

 

Dear X

 

 

Thank you for your letter of (date).

 

I write to inform you that I am not satisfied with the response you have provided to my initial complaint. I assert that I have been mis-sold Payment Protection Insurance (PPI) taken out on the above named loan account on (date).

 

Whilst you state in your reply that the loan application was conducted correctly and that your salesperson will have offered me a generic leaflet to take away which would have summarised the key benefits and exclusions of the cover, your sales broker had an obligation to me the borrower, to provide sufficient and appropriate information to enable me to make an informed decision as to the suitability of both the loan and the PPI to meet my own personal needs and financial circumstances at the time of taking out the loan. This would take the form of a Demands and Needs Statement and would include any exclusion clauses and the length of time that the insurance was available for specific to the PPI offered and to the loan itself.

 

I should also have been made aware of alternative options available, or comparative costs of similar PPI products from other suppliers, which information as a well known financial institution, you would most certainly have had access to.

 

The Financial Services Authority (FSA) provided guidelines at the time of taking out the loan in (name the year here) which your organisation should adhere to while making both Advised and Non-Advised sales. "The customer must [...] receive sufficient information on the product to enable them to make an informed decision as to whether it meets their own demands and needs." (FSA)

 

I assert that the cover was not mentioned to me at any point during the sales process. Furthermore, I did not receive any information, either by letter, document or telephone call which followed the above guideline. The documents that you have provided copies of do not contain any of the information that I have outlined above and cannot, therefore, be deemed as meeting the standard of care which you should have provided.

 

I reposed absolute trust in your ability as a financial institution to provide a reasonable level of care and skill in ensuring that my best interests were met when taking out a loan with your organisation. This has not been the case and I am extremely shocked and disappointed.

 

I would further suggest that the Principles of Business which are legally binding on Black Horse, under the Financial Services and Markets Act 2000 and which are contained in the FSA Handbook, have not been followed. Therefore you are in breach of regulations.

 

I request the return of (insert amount here plus interest) within 14 days of receipt of this letter by you. If you do not comply with my request, I will have no option but to commence court action against you for return of monies. I should remind you that the FSA take the issue of mis-selling of PPI extremely seriously and in many cases, have imposed large fines on financial institutions who are in breach of regulations.

 

Yours sincerely

 

 

Your name here

Edited September 10, 2008 by Paintball
Clarification

[adamski]

I no for a fact they did not discuss this PPI with me, i assumed at the time it was compulsory, so i am going down the route of mis-sold..... DO I HAVE A CASE???????????

 

Sorry you kind of contradict yourself may I ask on what exact grounds are you reclaiming please?

 

Black Horse are hardcore believe me!

[Paintball]

Leehind

 

It may also help you to read the following link, in particular the mis-selling reasons set out in Section 3: PPI - Consumer Wiki

 

It will help you to decide which particular parts Black Horse have not complied with.

[leehind]

hi thanks for the reply and letter template.

 

Adamski.. how do i contradict myself? the route i am going down is mis sold PPI for the following reasions. didnt realise i was sold the ppi, wasnt informed i had it by the sales person etc.

 

lee

[Paintball]

Hi Leehind

 

It's not a template letter as such, I've created just for you based upon the reasons you believe PPI was mis-sold to you.

 

If you feel absolutely certain that you're happy with the letter then send it off and I look forward to hearing their response!!

 

I think Adamski would like you to understand that you may have a tough time with Black Horse ... but I say, go get 'em girl!!!

 

:D

[leehind]

hi paintball

 

and thanks for the advise. Need a quick answer " Can you claim your PPI refunds using moneyclaim??" its around 1500.

 

I read on one site that you couldnt? and you need an N1 form. can you just let me no if i can or cant use moneyclaim. if i can what process do i make the claim via the courts.

 

ta

[Paintball]

Hi Leehind

 

I would always prefer to issue my claim via N1. I can't answer the Q about whether or not you can use Moneyclaim online for reclaim of monies totalling £1500. Don't forget that if you are filing in court you can add the 8% statutory interest (awarded at the discretion of the judge) for your case.

 

Check out www.moneyclaim.gov.uk to see if answers your Q ...

Edited September 16, 2008 by Paintball
Adding link.

[leehind]

cheers paintball

 

where do i get the N1 form from? can this be down loaded and posted to any court?

[Paintball]

Here you go: Her Majesty's Courts Service - Home

 

Left hand side, menu in purple box, fourth option. Fill in form, print THREE copies and prepare your POC (see sticky on this) and print THREE copies of this also. Send/take in to court which is what we call 'filing your claim' and enclose/hand over the appropriate fee. for fees check out court fees section the HMCS website.

 

Check out info on the website about taking a claim to court, also see this: Bank Templates Library on CAG so that you know what's what when taking a clain to court

[leehind]

cheers paintball

 

think i will just go down the N1 route. any advise on what i write on the POC?

 

ta

[leehind]

hi does this look ok??????

 

 

PARTICULARS OF CLAIM

 

 

________________________________

 

 

 

1. The Claimant opened a Consumer Credit Agreements with Black Horseon date.The account/reference number is *******which was a Payment Protection Planagreement with a total of £**** . I will refer to this as the “Agreement”.

 

2. The Agreement included Payment Protection Insurance (“PPI”) which was taken out at the same time.

 

3. The Claimant contends that the PPI relating to the Agreement, was only purchased as a result of pressure and misleading and/or incorrect advice given by the Staff Memberemployed by Black Horse Ltd.

 

4. The Claimant believes that a reasonable level of care and skill was not offered to the Claimant by the Manager during the sales process, and that therefore Black Horsefailed to meet its obligations under the terms of section 13 of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982.

 

5. The Claimant believes it is inconceivable that a person, occupying a management position within a multi-national company specialising in personal finance, would not have been given full training in the eligibility requirements for a product that provides a considerable boost to its profitability through commission and interest.

 

6.The Claimant contends that comments were made by the Manager which indicated that the loan applications may be refused without PPI, and the fact that it was optional was never mentioned. Indeed, when the forms were provided for signature, the relevant boxes for PPI were already marked.

 

7. The Claimant contends that there was no information provided of alternative options, or comparative costs of similar PPI products from other suppliers.

 

8. The Claimant contends that the PPI was sold with a view to meeting sales targets and providing bonuses and commission for the Manager and staff, rather than to help the Claimant attain a better financial position.

 

 

In considering this, and all matters in this claim, the Claimant asks the court to take into account the following Principles of Business which are legally binding on Black Horseunder the Financial Services & Markets Act 2000, and are contained in the FSA Handbook:

 

Principle 1 Integrity - A firm must conduct its business with integrity.

 

Principle 2 Skill, care and diligence - A firm must conduct its business with due skill, care and diligence.

 

Principle 3 Management and control - A firm must take reasonable care to organise and control its affairs responsibly and effectively, with adequate risk management systems.

 

Principle 5 Market conduct - A firm must observe proper standards of market conduct.

 

Principle 6 Customers' interests - A firm must pay due regard to the interests of its customers and treat them fairly.

 

Principle 7 Communications with clients - A firm must pay due regard to the information needs of its clients, and communicate information to them in a way which is clear, fair and not misleading.

 

Principle 8 Conflicts of interest - A firm must manage conflicts of interest fairly, both between itself and its customers and between a customer and another client.

 

Principle 9 Customers: relationships of trust - A firm must take reasonable care to ensure the suitability of its advice and discretionary decisions for any customer who is entitled to rely upon its judgment.

 

The Claimant seeks damages and other sums, as listed below, against the Defendant under Common Law, and/or section 2 of the Misrepresentation Act 1967, and/or section 140B of the Consumer Credit Act 1974:

 

The claimant claims that Black horse Ltd a sum equivalent estimated to the total amount unlawfully debited to my account during the above mentioned period, being £****.I further claim interest pursuant to s69 of the county courts act 1984 at the rate of 8% per annum, I further claim the court fee of £***

 

 

The Claimant believes that the facts stated in these Particulars of Claim are true.

 

Signed:

 

Date:

[Paintball]

Hi Leehind, I have some points for you to consider including in your POC but am not able to until Sunday evening.

 

I presume as it's Friday now that you won't be filing this until next week?

[leehind]

hi

 

your a star and really appricate your help!!!!! will do it at some point next week, just bored at work so thought i would get it done.

 

sunday will be tops!!!!

 

many thanks