DVD v Halifax

[Guest dvdriley]

what type of letter should i send in rsponse

[retrospect]

i guess you could wait until the 14 days are up and send them the 12+2 letter - just ignore the rubbish they've sent you and proceed to as for a true cca

[Guest dvdriley]

thanks,

[citizenB]

The 12 + 2 day letter is for the original request and there is no point in sending again.

 

There are 2 schools of thought here.

 

1: Send them a letter reminding them that they are now in default and that sending a current set of terms and conditions in no way fulfills the request you made.

 

2:. Just sit back and wait, see if they send you anything else. If they pass the account on or get heavy. Just send a letter back saying I am waiting for you to comply with a legal request made on such n such a date.

 

3:. If they pass the account on or start getting heavy, you can amend the letter in the following link provided by Bankfodder. It is self explanatory. Send copies of what they have sent you and any follow up threatograms. :grin:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/consumer-protection-unfair-trading/147830-complaint-oft-respect-invalid.html

[citizenB]

If you really feel the need to send them a letter.. you can amend the one provided by CAR in the following link.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mbna/160721-moonwitch-mbna.html#post1755352

[Guest dvdriley]

thank you all so much. I will send a letter off then ignore them until dca involved

[Guest dvdriley]

I am in correwspondence with the Halifax over a cca. I believe the agreement to be unenforceable. After several letters( the usual) backwards and forwards, I wrote a complaint to the financial ob.

 

Halifax have clearly not read it or my letters, as they have offered a £244 refund in respect of fees!!!!

 

As i belive the agreement to be unenforceable do i take the money ( a bonus) or ignore their offer and carry on with the cca. Or is one thing nothing to do with the other?

[ScabHunter]

Accept the refund and cash it.

 

The CCA is still relevant to any possibility of you paying them. If it is unenforceable, then it remains unenforceable.

 

You could always donate all or part of this money to the CAG.

 

SH

[Guest dvdriley]

thanks for the reply, i will think about this but i will donate if i take the offer

[Guest dvdriley]

I have an unenforceable CCA for Halifax credit card. The agreement they sent consists of 6 staples together pages. It does not contain my signature or theirs. It contains only my name and address. The t and c,s show late payment charges of £12.00 when at the time they were £25.00. The agreement is from 2003.

 

They say they have complied and thats it.

 

Should I just wait till court action or write back and tell them yet again why it is not enforceable?

[TheChancellor]

I would write back to them & keep the pressure on otherwise they will presume you have accepted their viewpoint.You tend to find the Halifax answer a different question - yes, they have probably conformed with their requirements but (usually) no, they haven't sent a true copy of the CCA as required.

[42man]

Dear Sirs,

 

Account Number: XXX

 

Re; your recent reply to my request under section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

I note that you have replied to the above by sending your companies current Terms and conditions I must inform you that this is not sufficient to comply with the request and that your company is still in default under the act.

 

To clarify, just sending the Terms and Conditions is a breach of the Act and Regulations as, apart from the information that the Regulations provide that you may exclude, the copy must be a “true copy” of the agreement.

 

This breach of the agreement can be demonstrated as follows;

As you will know section 180(1) (b) authorises, “the omission from a copy of certain material from the original, or the inclusion of certain material in condensed form.” This refers to statutory instruments made under the heading Copies of document regulations and in this care in particular to SI 1983/1557.

 

Before leaving section 180 there are two other sections that should be remembered these are:

 

Section 2(2) (a) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not satisfied unless the copy supplied is in the prescribed form and conforms to the prescribed requirements;

 

And more importantly

 

Section 2(b) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not infringed by the omission of any material, or its inclusion in condensed form, if that is authorised by regulations.

 

You will see that this quite clearly states that whilst certain items may be left out of the copy document the rest of the document must be in the form and contain all items as prescribed by the regulations.

 

Turning to the regulations regarding what may be omitted from these copies these are contained with SI 1983/1557.

 

The regulations state:

(2) There may be omitted from any such copy-

(a) any information included in an executed agreement, security instrument or other document relating to the debtor, hirer or surety or included for the use of the creditor or owner only which is not required to be included therein by the Act or any Regulations thereunder as to the form and content of the document of which it is a copy;

(b) any signature box, signature or date of signature (other than, in the case of a copy of a cancelable executed agreement delivered to the debtor under section 63(1) of the Act, the date of signature by the debtor of an agreement to which section 68(b) of the Act applies);

 

It is quite clear what can be omitted from the copy document, this again asserts that all other details of the agreement should presented in form and content as required by the regulations.

 

The requirements of the Agreement regulations 1983/1553 are very explicit in describing the form and content of an agreement and this as I have demonstrated also applies to the copy of any such agreement with the above mentioned proviso.

 

Nowhere within these regulations does it state that part of the agreement can be presented on a separate document headed terms and conditions.

It does state that all terms and conditions should be within the agreement document and is explicit of the form in which it is presented.

 

I hope this explains why your reply was unacceptable I await a True copy of my agreement and would remind you again that whilst the request has not been complied with the default continues

 

Yours faithfully

[Guest dvdriley]

Thanks i will write back

[findingthecheese]

Hi dvdriley

 

No advice, just wanted to let you know you're not alone

 

It'll be interesting to see if they respond. I'm in a similar position to you - and following the excellent advice given on CAG I've stuck to my guns and refused to accept the document that they have provided.

 

I too wrote to Hfx using a similar letter to the one provided by 42man - Hfx have ignored this letter and have failed to respond. I am now receiving threatograms from BOS again, they have now threatened court action and have given me 5 days in which to pay/call them to discuss payment....

 

I've WRITTEN to them and explained that I'm still waiting for Hfx to provide a true copy of my agreement...it's like ground hog day!

 

Definitely follow 42man's advice, the guys on here really know their stuff.

 

Good luck!

 

ftc.

[Guest dvdriley]

thanks for that

[Guest dvdriley]

I have a Halifax credit carD debt which is enforceable. I have asked the Halifax to freeze interst and charges and allow me to make a decent monthly repayment.

 

They say they can only do this if I go through a debt managment company. Is this true

[ScarletPimpernel]

They may have some sort of internal policy on this, but there's no legal basis for it. Send them your proposal and ask them to confirm why they insist on you going through a debt management company in writing.

[angel_1]

hiya

 

surely this is also could be against the oft guidelines, need to go and collect dd but will check for later, bye for now MAZ

[Guest dvdriley]

Thanks all

[darryl1960]

Hi dvdriley, In my case would not freeze interest and charges until I was 6 months in arrears and then for only 12 months after which they re instated interest and charges for another 190 days before they passed account onto BOS ,All the time I kept asking them to take me to court so that a Judge could determine a reasonable payment plan .My debt went up by another £3000 which certainly never helped me, For there unhelpfullness I have CCAd them and if I right that there is no CCA then they will pay for there lack of support in my time of trouble by being put at the bottom of the pile when it comes to paying everyone back.

[Brighteyes54]

Hi dvdriley!

Halifax are getting unbeieivable! Did they threaten to charge you for your visit?I got a letter a few days ago saying if i did not ring them they would send someone to visit me at our home and they were going to charge me £22.33 for pleasure of it! What a cheek !I suppose i ought to do what Fuzzybobble suggests on your post and retaliate by sending them an invoice for treble that amount!for the inconvienence of having to take a day of work to wait in for them:DI think they are definitly thinking of nastier ways to harress us this new year!

[vexlitigant]

Halifax do send postcards (the postcard comes within an envelope)

 

If you receive one of these, read the words carefully, it actually says "We will call your home", and NOT "we will call at your home"

 

When i received one of those, i anticipated the text and fell for their little game, and got really excited.

 

The post card from Halifax is a deliberate ploy to raise your blood temperature, and trigger a call to them.

 

I imagine that they are churning out many hundreds of these on a daily basis right now, and no bank (or any other organisation for that matter) has the resources to knock at peoples houses. It would be fantastically expensive, and without a court order, it would be hugely risky to do everyone.

 

Ignore it.

[hillards]

...it actually says "We will call your home", and NOT "we will call at your home"...

The swines!

 

Hopefully, any CAGger will now be aware of this ploy to further intimidate their victims. Funnily enough, I just re-read a similar card from Power 2 Contact and that is worded ""I confirm that I will be calling to discuss the recent communication..."

 

That could explain why they didn't pay invoice for waiting in...

[web2dude]

Hi dvdriley!

Halifax are getting unbeieivable! Did they threaten to charge you for your visit?I got a letter a few days ago saying if i did not ring them they would send someone to visit me at our home and they were going to charge me £22.33 for pleasure of it! What a cheek !I suppose i ought to do what Fuzzybobble suggests on your post and retaliate by sending them an invoice for treble that amount!for the inconvienence of having to take a day of work to wait in for them:DI think they are definitly thinking of nastier ways to harress us this new year!

 

I had exactly the same threats of visits from both MBNA and Nemo. I called the creditors and advised them that I would not be meeting any of their appointed representatives and would not be paying for any such visits. They had the cheek to leave recorded delivery letters for me to contact them urgently and wanted £30 or the non visit.

 

I also asked them to only correspond with me in writing in the future. You cannot be forced in to meeting anyone from their company, especially in your own home. It's a real pressure tactic. Best of luck.

[Brighteyes54]

Hello web2dud

So its not just Halifax bringing in this nasty idea!of threating charging people for attempting to bully people in their own homes.:mad:I reckon it must be a fairly recent thing.being used by DCAs.I do have to be a bit careful with Halifax though if it was not for the fact that i also have secured loans with Halifax as well as a card this incidence would normally have driven me to CCA them to see if they have an enforceable CCA as doing this they deserve every weapon thown at them but in my position id better try not to upset the apple cart with them so to speak!as im in a rather awkward position with them in that i have secured loans with them which unfortunatly gives them more power and if i put account in dispute it might make things more awkward if i have trouble with them in future over those plus i took card out in 2005 or 2006 so they are very likely to have an enforceable cca i imagine?so i have to tread very carefully with this bank:eek:

Edited January 12, 2009 by Brighteyes54