Court claim from Lloyds TSB - Advice needed please.

[joan_of_arc]

Solictors call it dinner

 

Ha ha, I nearly called it supper

 

 

but never mind welcome to the club

 

I was kidding about law school. I'm aiming for the Man Booker at the moment. 8)

 

 

BTW what you having?

 

Andy

 

Oh just a quiche with caramelised onion and duxelle of mushrooms that I knocked up yesterday. Everything is home made in this house

 

I'm still working though so gawd knows when I'll get to eat!

 

I'm going to write and post the defence tonight though

[AndyOrch]

sounds delicious

[joan_of_arc]

Hi again Andy - I wasn't able to connect to the CAG earlier, I think the server must have been snowed under, so I'm going to have to do this tomorrow now. I'll post it up first thing tomorrow morning

 

Thanks for all your help

 

sounds delicious

 

Yes the quiche was delicious, thanks. I hate being anonymous, I wish I could tell you who I am!

 

(I'm not JK Rowling.)

[joan_of_arc]

Andy, here are the scans of the defence which I'll email to the online court place in a bit with a typed signature.

 

As it's breakfast time I've disguised the personal details with some fried eggs.

 

Going over this for puctuation and typos, (yeah, slumming it, I normally have an editor to do that dirty work :wink:) I realised that you've sewn this together yourself, haven't you?

 

Fried eggs and quips aside, I'm really impressed and deeply grateful for your work and help.

 

So here is the jousting masterpiece in all its glory:

 

I'm going to bury myself in work for a couple of hours then will return

 

(By the way, I've yet to make any serious money from my writing, I am an impoverished artist on the launch pad rather than a wealthy novelist trying to get out of paying my debts!)

 

 

 

[AndyOrch]

Morning Joan

 

The section reference Notice of Assignment does not apply to your case as trhe debt is still with the OC ( original creditor) remove this.

Why are you emailing the above anyway, you can input on line via MCOL considering the claim is CCBC ( Northampton) there should be a password on the summons to enable this.

 

 

Regards

 

Andy;)

[joan_of_arc]

Morning Joan

 

Ah, hello, morning Andy.

 

The section reference Notice of Assignment does not apply to your case as trhe debt is still with the OC ( original creditor) remove this.

 

OK thanks. I've left the remainder of that para as per below though. Is that correct?

 

The amount detailed in the Claimant’s claim, includes penalties charges, which are unlawful at Common Law, under The Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 and The Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999.

 

Why are you emailing the above anyway, you can input on line via MCOL considering the claim is CCBC ( Northampton) there should be a password on the summons to enable this.

 

Yup that was what I meant, my apologies.

[AndyOrch]

Hi

 

Yes thats fine Good Luck with your submission

 

 

Regards

 

Andy;)

[Yog sothoth]

Hi Joan, I subscribed to your thread earlier. Just wanted to wish you luck. I had a similar claim just recently and made a similar defence (although mine was with a DCA). The court struck it out, and even if it had gone before a judge, I'm certain the outcome would have been the same.

So get that defence in and keep your spirits up!

 

Like the fried eggs btw!

[joan_of_arc]

Hi

 

Yes thats fine Good Luck with your submission

 

 

Regards

 

Andy;)

 

OK will send it off now, many thanks for all your help Andy you've been a star. I will keep everyone posted on this thread about any future developments.

 

Hi Joan, I subscribed to your thread earlier. Just wanted to wish you luck. I had a similar claim just recently and made a similar defence (although mine was with a DCA). The court struck it out, and even if it had gone before a judge, I'm certain the outcome would have been the same.

So get that defence in and keep your spirits up!

 

Thanks for your encouragement, Yog sothoth. Wonderful news that the court struck out the claim against you. Yes, I will get the defence in now.

 

Like the fried eggs btw!

 

Thankyou. My fried eggs have been known to cause much amusement.

[joan_of_arc]

Done. Phew. Thankyou Andy and 42Man

[AndyOrch]

I bet you feel better now Joan and you are very welcome lets hope it achieves said outcome.Myself and the Cag team are always available should you require further assistance

 

Kindest Regards

Andy;)

[joan_of_arc]

I bet you feel better now Joan

 

Yes, I do. For so many years I just brushed all the financial stuff under the carpet because it terrified me! It does feel good to take control. I feel very sorry for all those people who aren't bright enough know how to go about this, though. It doesn't seem fair that just because one is intelligent one has an advantage.

 

and you are very welcome lets hope it achieves said outcome.Myself and the Cag team are always available should you require further assistance

 

Kindest Regards

Andy;)

 

Thanks. I'm sure the lawsuits will start pouring in when my second novel is published next year. Ho ho ho.

[42man]

Any news on this Joan ?

[joan_of_arc]

Any news on this Joan ?

 

Not a sausage...still heard nothing. I'm hoping this is good news. In the meantime I'm about to start the process of requesting the refund of charges from all the CC Cos, because I paid off all my cards in full a few years ago so from 6 years to then there are a lot of charges. I'm not sure, though, where one stands on trying to claim back charges on a debt where the existence of the debt is in dispute due to the failure of the company to provide a copy of the original agreement...

[42man]

Keep in regular contact with the courts just to check if you've missed any paperwork....

 

Trying to reclaim charges whilst trying to argue enforceability could be seen as unjust enrichment....

[joan_of_arc]

Ah well, I haven't gotten anywhere with the charges issue anyway, so no matter, hey ho...

 

However, what I have got is a thing called an allocation questionaire, which I've to fill in and send to Sheffield County Court by the 10th November.

 

A lot of it looks straightforward...at first. But then, I strat wondering what do do for the best.

 

For instance, Part A. Settlement: do I 'try to settle', given that I'm arguing they have no case? Is that likely to look bad if I don't? If I don't want to settle or arrange mediation, what are my reasons? Can I just quote the gist of my defence?

 

Part B seems easy enough, and it's seemingly being heard at Sheffield anyway.

 

Part C. "Pre-action Protocols"? I like to think I have complied, and sent the other side all that they need from me, but I'm not 100% sure here.

 

Part D. I guess I'm disputing it all. Applications and witnesses I think I need to say no, but is that right? Ditto with experts.

But then, we're onto what track I want. Not sure here either. What's best?

 

Part E. How long will the hearing take? 1 day?

 

Part F. Proposed Directions. This is where I'm lost. I'm not sure what I need to write or do for this bit. Am I saying that I want the case struck out, because XXX blah blah blah, along the lines of my defence?

 

G. I can ignore

 

H. is scary, seeing as I have no money (quite literally at the moment). I don't think I have to pay a fee though. Am I right? That's what the notes suggest.

 

Section I. Other info. Again, is there anything I should say here?

 

I'm still determined to stand up to them but it's getting a bit scary. Looking at some other threads though, I'm still convinced that my defence is strong and their case is weak.

 

I guess I need to send this form off by Friday, so any help would be hugely appreciated, even if only giving me a bit of confidence in what I'm putting on the form.

[42man]

Hi Joan...i'm not an expert on these but these 2 should help until further advice -

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/161188-allocation-questionnaire-urgent-help.html

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/158235-help-allocation-questionaire-soon-2.html

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/131499-directions-n150-n149-allocation.html

[joan_of_arc]

Thanks 42man. I'll have a look at those.

[AndyOrch]

Ah well, I haven't gotten anywhere with the charges issue anyway, so no matter, hey ho...

 

However, what I have got is a thing called an allocation questionaire, which I've to fill in and send to Sheffield County Court by the 10th November. N149/N150?

 

A lot of it looks straightforward...at first. But then, I strat wondering what do do for the best.

 

For instance, Part A. Settlement: do I 'try to settle', given that I'm arguing they have no case? Is that likely to look bad if I don't? If I don't want to settle or arrange mediation, what are my reasons? Can I just quote the gist of my defence? The fact that you are requesting settlement,is in no way an admittance to any alleged debt.It only projects an image of amicabilty to the Courts.Shows that in the interests of Court time and Costs you are open to sort this fiasco out either with the Courts assitance or without.

 

 

Part B seems easy enough, and it's seemingly being heard at Sheffield anyway.

 

Part C. "Pre-action Protocols"? Type This case is not covered by any approved protocal Ihave tried to act reasonably in exchanging information and documents relevent to the claim but have had no response from the Claimant in this regard I like to think I have complied, and sent the other side all that they need from me, but I'm not 100% sure here.

 

Part D. I guess I'm disputing it all. Type the amount the Claimant claims Not costs or sol fees Applications None and witnesses I think I need to say no, Yourself as the witness but is that right? Ditto with experts. None

But then, we're onto what track I want. Not sure here either. What's best? If its the N149 its SCT Small Claims track N150 fast track or Multi depending on amount of claim

 

Part E. How long will the hearing take? 1 day? 4 hours

 

Part F. Proposed Directions. This is where I'm lost. I'm not sure what I need to write or do for this bit. Am I saying that I want the case struck out, because XXX blah blah blah, along the lines of my defence? Leave for now will come back to this tomorrow

 

G. I can ignore

 

H. is scary, seeing as I have no money (quite literally at the moment). I don't think I have to pay a fee though. Am I right? That's what the notes suggest. Correct the Claimant pays the fee

 

Section I. Other info. Again, is there anything I should say here? leave for now will come back to this tomorrow

 

I'm still determined to stand up to them but it's getting a bit scary. Looking at some other threads though, I'm still convinced that my defence is strong and their case is weak.

 

I guess I need to send this form off by Friday, so any help would be hugely appreciated, even if only giving me a bit of confidence in what I'm putting on the form.

 

 

Regards

 

Andy

Edited November 5, 2008 by Andyorch

[joan_of_arc]

Andy, thanks for that. I've added that info to the N150. Once I've added the rest I'll deliver it by hand to the court, seeing as Monday is the deadline.

[AndyOrch]

Hi Joan here is an example of Directions (Courtesy of SAx20)which are similar to what i would propose

 

Sign and date the AQ on page 5 and fill out your address etc.

 

Attach to the AQ

[1] a copy of your CPR 18 letter and

[2] a sheet of paper on which you copy and paste the following as your proposed directions:

 

Proposed Directions

 

1 The Claimant shall by (date / time) comply with the Defendant’s request made (date) pursuant to CPR 18 by supplying to the Defendant true copies of each of the documents mentioned in the Particulars of Claim, namely

(a) the agreement relied upon

(b) the default notice

 

2 If the Claimant shall fail to comply with paragraph 1 of this order, the Particulars of Claim shall be struck out and the Defendant shall be at liberty without further order of this court to apply for judgment upon his Defence and for the costs of this case to be paid to him by the Claimant to be subject to detailed assessment proceedings pursuant to the provisions of the Litigants in Person (Costs and Expenses) Act 1975 if not agreed.

 

3 If the Claimant shall comply with this order, the case shall be stayed for a period of one month from the date of compliance.

 

4 [such further directions as necessary to manage the period of stay to include in the event that a settlement is not reached, directions for the case to be allocated to track and other desirable case management directions]

 

Signed:

 

Dated:

 

 

Regards

 

Andy:)

[joan_of_arc]

Thanks Andy

I've been looking at some other threads and found this one from recently, where the poster won his case, which is similar to mine (except it was a debt collection agency, not a bank):

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/152210-1st-credit-definitely-taking.html

 

I was going to adapt the directions that he used (bottom of page 1 of his thread). Yours seem more straightforward though. What's the difference between the two?

[joan_of_arc]

Hi Joan here is an example of Directions (Courtesy of SAx20)which are similar to what i would propose

 

Sign and date the AQ on page 5 and fill out your address etc.

 

Attach to the AQ

[1] a copy of your CPR 18 letter and

[2] a sheet of paper on which you copy and paste the following as your proposed directions:

 

Once again thanks for this andyorch. I am assembling everything now before delivering it by hand to the court. I'm still a little confused though. Do I fill in all the tick boxes in the form as well as attaching the documents you've suggested? Or do I leave the tick boxes empty?

 

4 [such further directions as necessary to manage the period of stay to include in the event that a settlement is not reached, directions for the case to be allocated to track and other desirable case management directions]

 

Also I don't understand this fully and am unsure what to write.

 

By the way, I received a letter from TSB's solicitors a couple of weeks back which I'm including here in case it's relevant. I didn't think it was so haven't posted it so far but I'm now thinking I should post all information possible.

 

I'm sorry I haven't been keeping more up to date with this thread over the last few days as well but I was committed to some full time voluntary work for a few days.

 

[citizenB]

How very strange they should sent you that letter AFTER they have started court proceedings ?.

[joan_of_arc]

Right. Latest news is, that after sending in my AQ form, with directions and supporting information, I have received Notice of Allocation to the Fast Track from the court.

 

The notice states that the judge has allocated the case to the Fast Track, and it is ordered that:

 

1. the trial will take place in March-April, and is estimated at 3 hours.
   
2. Each party shall give standard disclosure to every other party by list. The latest date for delivery of the lists is December 10th.
   
3. The latest date for service of any request to inspect or for a copy of a document is 24th December.
   
4. Each party shall serve on every other party the witness statements of all witnesses of fact on whom they intend to rely. There shall be simultaneous exchange of such statements no later than 7th January.
   
5. No expert evidence is necessary.
   
6. Pre-trial checklists to be filed by 21st January.
   

Given the rubbish that was submitted to me in response to my CCA request, I'm surprised they have gone this far. Won't they just lose automatically my not having a properly executed credit agreement?

 

Anyway, does this definitely mean I am off to court? I think so.

 

Assuming I am off to court, what do the points listed above mean? I don't know what I need to do. Also, what do they need to do? Should I expect something from them?

 

Point 1. OK, easy enough.

Point 2. What is standard disclosure by list?

Point 3. Do I need to request anything? Re-state my request for CCA?

Point 4. I have no witnesses. Do I need to do anything?

Point 6. What is a pre-trial checklist?

 

If anyone can advise me on this I'd be very grateful. Also, if there's any advice elsewhere on the forums, I'd like to know. These forums being so huge, I tend to get a bit lost looking for things!

 

Lastly, do I need a solicitor? What do people usually do? Bear in mind it's only over an alleged £250.