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    • Hi,  I guess the DCAs have come out of hibernation as my friend has had a Claim Form today.  Honestly I feel like I have addressed this one but she can't find the folder box I gave her to keep all this nonsense in, but then the claim form has no information you could realistically use to find out what its from anyway(JD has a few names under their umbrella and she has had accounts with most of them over the years, some repeatedly as they keep lending to someone with no income.  Its ok at the start when its only a little bit but they rapidly put it up and up until she owes in the high hundreds/low thousands instead of the £150 she is initially given, she always intends to keep it in good standing but there is a massive difference between paying £20 a month and over £100) and the usual poor grammar that should be an embarrassment to any normal legal firm, but I suppose these people have no shame.   Anyway, I assume its the same respond for more time and send off a CPR and CCA?   Name of the Claimant ?   Cabot Financial Date of issue – top right hand corner of the claim form – this in order to establish the time line you need to adhere to. 22/02/2021   Particulars of Claim   What is the claim for – the reason they have issued the claim?  By an Agreement between JD Williams Ltd RE Jacamo & the defendant dated XX ('the agreement') JD Williams Ltd RE Jacamo agreed to issue the Defendant with a credit account.  The Defendant failed to make the minimum payments due.  The Agreement was terminated following the service of a default notice.  The agreement was assigned to the Claimant.  THE CLAIMANT THEREFOR CLAIMS 1.8XX.XX 2. costs   What is the total value of the claim? £8XX.XX    Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? No   Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? Yes   Did you inform the claimant of your change of address? No Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? Catalogue   When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? After   Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? Online   Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? Yes   Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Debt Purchaser   Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? Possibly, she was(and is) very poor at keeping and responding to correspondence.     Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? Possibly, she was(and is) very poor at keeping and responding to correspondence.   Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? Possibly, she was(and is) very poor at keeping and responding to correspondence.   Why did you cease payments? More than she could afford.     What was the date of your last payment? No Idea as we do not not which account it is for.     Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? No   Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? Possibly but can't say for sure.    
    • Thank you Andy/Dx   UPDATED Defence, 3 days remaining.   Not sure where to mention invalid PAP. I put it under number 5. Please check if this is good to go.   Defence   The Defendant contends that the particulars of claims are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any allegation to which a specific response has not been made.   The Claimant has not complied with paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) – failed to serve a letter of claim pre-claim pursuant to PAPDC changes of the 1st October 2017. It is respectfully requested that the court take this into consideration pursuant to 7.1 PAPDC.   1. I have in the past had financial dealings with Lloyds Banking Group. I do not recall the precise details of the agreement and have sought clarity from the claimant.   2. However, I do not recall ever receiving a Default Notice pursuant to sec 87(1) CCA1974.   3. I do not recall ever receiving this notice pursuant to sec136 of the Law of Property Act 1925.   4. I do not recall ever receiving a letter of assignment from the Lloyds Banking group advising the debt was assigned to the claimant.   5. Claimant served the invalid PAP with no connection to their court claim,   6. On receipt of this claim I sent CPR 31.14 and section 77 request. The claimant failed to provide a valid copy of the agreement and therefore remains in default of said request.   7. It is therefore not accepted with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant and the Claimant is put to strict proof to:-   a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement; and b) show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and c) Show or evidence service of a Default Notice/Notice of Sums in Arrears, d) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim;   By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.      
    • no.   i wonder if the OP is entitled to CTAX benefit, thats only available from the relevant council...most on UC can get it..   but your MP is by far the most successful route to sorting these issues we've seen here to work.
    • dx100uk  unclebulgaria67   OP is on UC.   Could the council apply for weekly amounts to be deducted from UC claim ?
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    • I sent in the bailiffs to the BBC. They collected £350. It made me smile.
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    • Hi @BankFodder
      Sorry for only updating you now, but after your guidance with submitting the claim it was pretty straight forward and I didn't want to unnecessarily waste your time. Especially with this guide you wrote here, so many thanks for that
      So I issued the claim on day 15 and they requested more time to respond.
      They took until the last day to respond and denied the claim, unsurprisingly saying my contract was with Packlink and not with them.
       
      I opted for mediation, and it played out very similarly to other people's experiences.
       
      In the first call I outlined my case, and I referred to the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 as the reason to why I do in fact have a contract with them. 
       
      In the second call the mediator came back with an offer of the full amount of the phone and postage £146.93, but not the court costs. I said I was not willing to accept this and the mediator came across as a bit irritated that I would not accept this and said I should be flexible. I insisted that the law was on my side and I was willing to take them to court. The mediator went back to Hermes with what I said.
       
      In the third call the mediator said that they would offer the full amount. However, he said that Hermes still thought that I should have taken the case against Packlink instead, and that they would try to recover the court costs themselves from Packlink.
       
      To be fair to them, if Packlink wasn't based in Spain I would've made the claim against them instead. But since they are overseas and the law lets me take action against Hermes directly, it's the best way of trying to recover the money.
       
      So this is a great win. Thank you so much for your help and all of the resources available on this site. It has helped me so much especially as someone who does not know anything about making money claims.
       
      Many thanks, stay safe and have a good Christmas!
       
       
        • Thanks
    • Hermes and mediation hints. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/428981-hermes-and-mediation-hints/&do=findComment&comment=5080003
      • 1 reply
    • Natwest Bank Transfer Fraud Call HMRC Please help. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/428951-natwest-bank-transfer-fraud-call-hmrc-please-help/&do=findComment&comment=5079786
      • 33 replies

Court claim from Lloyds TSB - Advice needed please.


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joan of arc,

 

My post #337 is exactly as I stated, I have the form in my hand looking at it now, N24 Notice of DEFENDANTS APPLICATION FOR REDETERMINATION. Successfully applied for and a REDETERMINATION obtained. Best of luck. :D

 

"EXEMPLO DUCEMUS"

 

Joan here. Thanks JGJ I have downloaded that form now.

 

I had the information straight from a lady who actually goes through the enforcement of debt forms at court.

on my form it asked for my husbands income and mine plus benefits and anything else anyone gives you.

then it said expenses....only include what you pay from your income.

She said to do as the form said and just write, if I wanted to, that all other living expenses ie. morgage/rent etc. were paid by my husband.

I said why do you ask for my oh's income when he is not responsible for my debt?

She said don't worry we ask what your spouses income is but we then subtract that figure (his income ) so in effect it is not included because it is not his debt.

 

Thanks

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Hi everyone. We still haven't received the written judgement yet, and it's over a week since Judgement was handed down. Is that usual?

dont know but ive not had directions yet from 8th april...still not typed up.....overrun appntly

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Turns out N24 is just the General Form of Judgment or Order, a blank form on which Court Orders or Judgments (which can include Defendant's applications for Redetermination I suppose) are made.

JGJ, how exactly did you apply for your redetermination? This N24 is just a blank form, no guidance or anything, with the title 'General Form of Judgment or Order' at the top. Can't be right.

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joan of arc,

 

I do apologise for misleading you, forms N24 were the forms I received FROM the court.

 

1) Defendants Application For Redetermination

 

2) General Form of Judgement or Order.

 

I first wrote to my local Court Manager, requesting that the Court re-assess and redetermine the installments that had previously been awarded to a creditor, as my financial circumstances had taken a sudden downward spiral (Business failed)

 

I stated in the letter that owing to the change in my financial circumstances a more realistic amount would be xx. I also sent the court a new financial statement.

 

Form (1) received from the court after submitting my letter.

 

Form (2) Received after I attended court for a 15 min hearing with a very, very understanding Dep. DJ. and thankfully he redetermined/reduced the monthly payment substantially. :D

 

"EXEMPLO DUCEMUS"

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Mr Joan here:

We got the order from the court on Tuesday, telling Joan she had to pay the full amount forthwith (over £10K including their costs of over £3K!).

 

We wrote to the court stating she couldn't pay it and enclosing a I&E breakdown, showing that we could only afford a limited sum every month, as mine is the only income. It's in their court now (no pun intended).

 

We used the letter posted on this thread earlier, referring to CPR whatever it was. Fingers crossed now.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi. Joan's other half again.

 

The court have written to Joan to say a hearing is set for May 21st. Is this usual, and does she have to attend in person (she's not relishing it!)? Anyone have any experience of redetermination hearings?

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Hi. Joan's other half again.

 

The court have written to Joan to say a hearing is set for May 21st. Is this usual, and does she have to attend in person (she's not relishing it!)? Anyone have any experience of redetermination hearings?

 

I will try and find someone who does know for you Mr Joan :)

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Hi Mr Joan, one of the site team found this for you.

 

ccj and redetermination - MoneySavingExpert.com Forums

 

Post 4 or 5 in the above link should give you some idea. HTH

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Posted comment on wrong thread.:oops:

Edited by citizenB

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2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

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PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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You are very welcome. :D

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3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

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PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Just to add to the points made in the MSE link.

 

Ask the judge for the monthly date to be set for a date YOU wish to pay on - only a small thing, but it gives you a bit of control over your money.

 

Also get the judge to order LTSB to furnish the account details they wish to use and ask that payments start once the deatails are supplied, leaving no doubt about when repayments should begin. I say this as this will stop them trying to apply for a Charging Order before repayment is due.

 

A good income and Expenditure planner can be found here - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1712&d=1199396120

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Joan here. Off to court again tomorrow to the redetermination hearing. Couldn't have come at a worse time as I've got H1N1 type A influenza and have been very, very poorly for nearly a week. It's going to be a huge effort just to get to the bus stop never mind go through all the stuff at court.

 

If Lloyds TSB have a representative in the room I will be breathing in his direction.

 

This is an illness I would also wish on all the banking heads, having just watched Channel 4's Dispatches, Britain's Bankers, Still Cashing In on 4OD.:-x

 

The entire system is a joke.

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Oh dear, sorry to hear that you arent feeling too well Joan. {{}}

 

It is outrageous the bankers are still taking these huge bonuses. Perhaps that is why LTSB want to do this share issue and pay the tax payer back so quickly.. they dont want us going after them like we have the MPs :mad:

 

Best wishes for tomorrow x

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Sorry to read you're not feeling 100%.

 

Good luck for tomorrow though.

 

One little gem to add that you may wish to use if the debt was in your name ( courtesy of FunkyFox ) -

 

 

If it is and the house is in joint names the other parties can also object, stating why they would be prejudiced by any charging order or order for sale. Arguments such as they put all of the deposit down, you are separating, they pay all of the mortgage may all help.

 

It is also worth noting that if it is a sole debt on a joint mortgage they can only enter a restriction, not a charge. You would see this on the detail from Land Registry where it says something like 'notice of intention to enter a restriction'. This makes the possibility of an Order for Sale VERY unlikely and means that (and not a lot of people know this!!) that you do not even have to pay them from the proceeds of the sale of you home, only notify them that the sale has taken place. Ultimately this is to protect those in situations where the other people on the deeds may be other friends, family or companies such as a Housing Association. In these cases your debt has nothing to do with them and they should not be caused detriment as a result of action taken against you.

The paragraph below is from a senior Land Registry official.

Quote:

Restriction

 

The restriction which can be entered on the register where a charging order is made against one of joint proprietors is in the following form :-

No disposition of the registered estate is to be registered without a certificate signed by the applicant for registration or his conveyancer that written notice of the disposition was given to [name of person with the benefit of the charging order] at [address for service], being the person with the benefit of [an interim] [a final] charging order on the beneficial interest of (name of judgment debtor) made by the (name of court) on (date) (Court reference.…).

You are therefore correct in saying that when the Land Registry receives an application to register, for example a transfer, we will not ask to see the consent of the person who has the benefit of the charging order. We will only want a certificate from the applicant for registration or his conveyancer that the person who has the benefit of the charging order has been given written notice of the transfer.

 

If both joint owners sell the land to a third party the restriction will be cancelled when the transfer to the purchasers is registered.

 

Orders for sale of the property

 

The case of Midland Bank plc v Pike and another [1988] 2 All ER 434 is authority for the proposition that a person entitled to a charging order on the share of a co-owner was entitled to apply for an order for the sale of the land pursuant to section 30 of the Law of Property Act 1925.

 

Section 30 of the Law of Property Act 1925 was repealed by the Trusts of Land and Appointment of Trustees Act 1996. Sections 14 and 15 of that Act now cover the situation where an order for sale is applied for. The case of Mortgage Corporation v Shaire and others2001 4 All ER 364 discusses the factors to be considered by the court in deciding whether to grant such an order when application is made by a person who has a charge against the interest of one of joint owners.

SO I hope this gives you some comfort especially if the debt is in sole names, with a joint mortgage.

 

  • Haha 2

 

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Joan here. Off to court again tomorrow to the redetermination hearing. Couldn't have come at a worse time as I've got H1N1 type A influenza and have been very, very poorly for nearly a week. It's going to be a huge effort just to get to the bus stop never mind go through all the stuff at court.

 

If Lloyds TSB have a representative in the room I will be breathing in his direction.

 

This is an illness I would also wish on all the banking heads, having just watched Channel 4's Dispatches, Britain's Bankers, Still Cashing In on 4OD.:-x

 

The entire system is a joke.

 

Stress destroys white blood cells and lowers your immune system; hence your illness - give the opposition a great, big, germy kiss (or just spit on them - will have the same effect);):-x

 

Funnily enough, currently watching the programme you mention on More4 at the mo.

 

Supasnooper has posted some superb info....

 

Very best of luck to you, for tomorrow, Joan:) We are all rooting for you {{ }}

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wishing you both very best of luck too, will sprinkle some angel dust for good luck over you x

 

anyway supa has given some good info, which i didnt know much about charging orders,,,,,and got myself in a bit of a frenzy yesterday on receipt of a charging order threat,,,

 

but debts are my sole name only, plus house ok is in joint names, but mortgage is paid by hubby so i think i have some good info for any defence which hubby of course would put in a very very strong objection

 

learnt again today something useful and new

 

anyway keep your pecker up and just get the best solution to your needs as best as you can tomorrow

 

laters angel x

Im happy to help with support and my own thoughts, but if I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action.:)

 

my new motto is,,,",Taking back control of your life and home - such peace is priceless"

 

This is all due to truecall device , have a serious peek at this you will be thankful like I am x laters angel :D

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Hi everyone, Joan's partner here. She's on her sickbed at the moment.

 

LTSB didn't have anyone representing them. Joan was in the court less than a minute. The judge, whom she described as "cold, hard and dismissive", stated that the Claimant objected to our offer, pointing out it would take over 40 years to pay it back, and that they had requested a charge on the property. He added that it would all be dealt with in writing now.

 

Bearing in mind Supasnooper's advice above, I intend to write a letter to the Court, objecting to any charge as the debt has nothing to do with me, that I am joint owner of the property, and that I pay the mortgage, so would be caused unjust detriment by a charge being applied.

 

The judge apparently said they could get a charge on 'Joan's half' of the property!

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Hope you get better soon Joan.

 

And get the letter into the court.

 

I've not heard of a Charging Order being dealt with in writing.

 

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Please consider making a donation, however small, if you have benefited from advice on the forums.

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Any advice & opinions given by supasnooper are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability.

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