Court claim from Lloyds TSB - Advice needed please.

[joan_of_arc]

joan of arc,

 

My post #337 is exactly as I stated, I have the form in my hand looking at it now, N24 Notice of DEFENDANTS APPLICATION FOR REDETERMINATION. Successfully applied for and a REDETERMINATION obtained. Best of luck.

 

"EXEMPLO DUCEMUS"

 

Joan here. Thanks JGJ I have downloaded that form now.

 

I had the information straight from a lady who actually goes through the enforcement of debt forms at court.

on my form it asked for my husbands income and mine plus benefits and anything else anyone gives you.

then it said expenses....only include what you pay from your income.

She said to do as the form said and just write, if I wanted to, that all other living expenses ie. morgage/rent etc. were paid by my husband.

I said why do you ask for my oh's income when he is not responsible for my debt?

She said don't worry we ask what your spouses income is but we then subtract that figure (his income ) so in effect it is not included because it is not his debt.

 

Thanks

[r&b]

Hi everyone. We still haven't received the written judgement yet, and it's over a week since Judgement was handed down. Is that usual?

dont know but ive not had directions yet from 8th april...still not typed up.....overrun appntly

[joan_of_arc]

Turns out N24 is just the General Form of Judgment or Order, a blank form on which Court Orders or Judgments (which can include Defendant's applications for Redetermination I suppose) are made.

JGJ, how exactly did you apply for your redetermination? This N24 is just a blank form, no guidance or anything, with the title 'General Form of Judgment or Order' at the top. Can't be right.

[JGJ]

joan of arc,

 

I do apologise for misleading you, forms N24 were the forms I received FROM the court.

 

1) Defendants Application For Redetermination

 

2) General Form of Judgement or Order.

 

I first wrote to my local Court Manager, requesting that the Court re-assess and redetermine the installments that had previously been awarded to a creditor, as my financial circumstances had taken a sudden downward spiral (Business failed)

 

I stated in the letter that owing to the change in my financial circumstances a more realistic amount would be xx. I also sent the court a new financial statement.

 

Form (1) received from the court after submitting my letter.

 

Form (2) Received after I attended court for a 15 min hearing with a very, very understanding Dep. DJ. and thankfully he redetermined/reduced the monthly payment substantially.

 

"EXEMPLO DUCEMUS"

[joan_of_arc]

Mr Joan here:

We got the order from the court on Tuesday, telling Joan she had to pay the full amount forthwith (over £10K including their costs of over £3K!).

 

We wrote to the court stating she couldn't pay it and enclosing a I&E breakdown, showing that we could only afford a limited sum every month, as mine is the only income. It's in their court now (no pun intended).

 

We used the letter posted on this thread earlier, referring to CPR whatever it was. Fingers crossed now.

[joan_of_arc]

Hi. Joan's other half again.

 

The court have written to Joan to say a hearing is set for May 21st. Is this usual, and does she have to attend in person (she's not relishing it!)? Anyone have any experience of redetermination hearings?

[citizenB]

Hi. Joan's other half again.

 

The court have written to Joan to say a hearing is set for May 21st. Is this usual, and does she have to attend in person (she's not relishing it!)? Anyone have any experience of redetermination hearings?

 

I will try and find someone who does know for you Mr Joan

[joan_of_arc]

Thanks CitizenB, I've done a search on the forum but can't find much of help.

[citizenB]

Hi Mr Joan, one of the site team found this for you.

 

ccj and redetermination - MoneySavingExpert.com Forums

 

Post 4 or 5 in the above link should give you some idea. HTH

[Yog sothoth]

Brilliant useful for me as well.

[citizenB]

Posted comment on wrong thread.

Edited May 9, 2009 by citizenB

[joan_of_arc]

Joan's other half here;

 

Thanks CB.

Joan will find that link very useful I think.

[citizenB]

You are very welcome.

[supasnooper]

Just to add to the points made in the MSE link.

 

Ask the judge for the monthly date to be set for a date YOU wish to pay on - only a small thing, but it gives you a bit of control over your money.

 

Also get the judge to order LTSB to furnish the account details they wish to use and ask that payments start once the deatails are supplied, leaving no doubt about when repayments should begin. I say this as this will stop them trying to apply for a Charging Order before repayment is due.

 

A good income and Expenditure planner can be found here - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1712&d=1199396120

[hammyhound]

Subbing as I am going down the same route and lots of helpful information on here.

 

HH

[joan_of_arc]

Joan here. Off to court again tomorrow to the redetermination hearing. Couldn't have come at a worse time as I've got H1N1 type A influenza and have been very, very poorly for nearly a week. It's going to be a huge effort just to get to the bus stop never mind go through all the stuff at court.

 

If Lloyds TSB have a representative in the room I will be breathing in his direction.

 

This is an illness I would also wish on all the banking heads, having just watched Channel 4's Dispatches, Britain's Bankers, Still Cashing In on 4OD.

 

The entire system is a joke.

[joan_of_arc]

Subbing as I am going down the same route and lots of helpful information on here.

 

HH

 

Good luck.

[citizenB]

Oh dear, sorry to hear that you arent feeling too well Joan. {{}}

 

It is outrageous the bankers are still taking these huge bonuses. Perhaps that is why LTSB want to do this share issue and pay the tax payer back so quickly.. they dont want us going after them like we have the MPs

 

Best wishes for tomorrow x

[Dorabell]

sorry you are feeling unwell joan good luck for tomorow:)

[supasnooper]

Sorry to read you're not feeling 100%.

 

Good luck for tomorrow though.

 

One little gem to add that you may wish to use if the debt was in your name ( courtesy of FunkyFox ) -

 

 

If it is and the house is in joint names the other parties can also object, stating why they would be prejudiced by any charging order or order for sale. Arguments such as they put all of the deposit down, you are separating, they pay all of the mortgage may all help.

 

It is also worth noting that if it is a sole debt on a joint mortgage they can only enter a restriction, not a charge. You would see this on the detail from Land Registry where it says something like 'notice of intention to enter a restriction'. This makes the possibility of an Order for Sale VERY unlikely and means that (and not a lot of people know this!!) that you do not even have to pay them from the proceeds of the sale of you home, only notify them that the sale has taken place. Ultimately this is to protect those in situations where the other people on the deeds may be other friends, family or companies such as a Housing Association. In these cases your debt has nothing to do with them and they should not be caused detriment as a result of action taken against you.

The paragraph below is from a senior Land Registry official.

Quote:

Restriction

 

The restriction which can be entered on the register where a charging order is made against one of joint proprietors is in the following form :-

No disposition of the registered estate is to be registered without a certificate signed by the applicant for registration or his conveyancer that written notice of the disposition was given to [name of person with the benefit of the charging order] at [address for service], being the person with the benefit of [an interim] [a final] charging order on the beneficial interest of (name of judgment debtor) made by the (name of court) on (date) (Court reference.…).

You are therefore correct in saying that when the Land Registry receives an application to register, for example a transfer, we will not ask to see the consent of the person who has the benefit of the charging order. We will only want a certificate from the applicant for registration or his conveyancer that the person who has the benefit of the charging order has been given written notice of the transfer.

 

If both joint owners sell the land to a third party the restriction will be cancelled when the transfer to the purchasers is registered.

 

Orders for sale of the property

 

The case of Midland Bank plc v Pike and another [1988] 2 All ER 434 is authority for the proposition that a person entitled to a charging order on the share of a co-owner was entitled to apply for an order for the sale of the land pursuant to section 30 of the Law of Property Act 1925.

 

Section 30 of the Law of Property Act 1925 was repealed by the Trusts of Land and Appointment of Trustees Act 1996. Sections 14 and 15 of that Act now cover the situation where an order for sale is applied for. The case of Mortgage Corporation v Shaire and others2001 4 All ER 364 discusses the factors to be considered by the court in deciding whether to grant such an order when application is made by a person who has a charge against the interest of one of joint owners.

SO I hope this gives you some comfort especially if the debt is in sole names, with a joint mortgage.

 

[underdog13]

Joan here. Off to court again tomorrow to the redetermination hearing. Couldn't have come at a worse time as I've got H1N1 type A influenza and have been very, very poorly for nearly a week. It's going to be a huge effort just to get to the bus stop never mind go through all the stuff at court.

 

If Lloyds TSB have a representative in the room I will be breathing in his direction.

 

This is an illness I would also wish on all the banking heads, having just watched Channel 4's Dispatches, Britain's Bankers, Still Cashing In on 4OD.

 

The entire system is a joke.

 

Stress destroys white blood cells and lowers your immune system; hence your illness - give the opposition a great, big, germy kiss (or just spit on them - will have the same effect)

 

Funnily enough, currently watching the programme you mention on More4 at the mo.

 

Supasnooper has posted some superb info....

 

Very best of luck to you, for tomorrow, Joan:) We are all rooting for you {{ }}

[angel_1]

wishing you both very best of luck too, will sprinkle some angel dust for good luck over you x

 

anyway supa has given some good info, which i didnt know much about charging orders,,,,,and got myself in a bit of a frenzy yesterday on receipt of a charging order threat,,,

 

but debts are my sole name only, plus house ok is in joint names, but mortgage is paid by hubby so i think i have some good info for any defence which hubby of course would put in a very very strong objection

 

learnt again today something useful and new

 

anyway keep your pecker up and just get the best solution to your needs as best as you can tomorrow

 

laters angel x

[BubbleCat]

Hi Joan,

 

You poor thing. I do hope you make a quick recovery.

 

Hope all went well.

[joan_of_arc]

Hi everyone, Joan's partner here. She's on her sickbed at the moment.

 

LTSB didn't have anyone representing them. Joan was in the court less than a minute. The judge, whom she described as "cold, hard and dismissive", stated that the Claimant objected to our offer, pointing out it would take over 40 years to pay it back, and that they had requested a charge on the property. He added that it would all be dealt with in writing now.

 

Bearing in mind Supasnooper's advice above, I intend to write a letter to the Court, objecting to any charge as the debt has nothing to do with me, that I am joint owner of the property, and that I pay the mortgage, so would be caused unjust detriment by a charge being applied.

 

The judge apparently said they could get a charge on 'Joan's half' of the property!

[supasnooper]

Hope you get better soon Joan.

 

And get the letter into the court.

 

I've not heard of a Charging Order being dealt with in writing.