1st credit/mucky hall re MBNA card debt failed CCA?

[joeblogs]

I had a debt with MBNA which has now been passed to 1st Credit, got their first letter last week.

 

Sent them a CCA letter rec del and £1 PO,

got a reply back today dated 21 May saying they will be advising their client of the request and to allow 6-8 weeks for the copy of agreement to reach me.

 

They also said the following which I dont understand 'should your request also include the below docs, please be advised of the following: Deed of Assisgment - we would refer you to Section 136 of the Law of Property Act 1925 which provides that the debtor is notified of the assignment of the debt in writing and not a copy of the Deed itself.

Copy statements - there is a charge of £10 for this information.

 

Can anyone tell me what all this is about please.

 

Also, I have received today a letter from mackenzie hall dated 19 May saying that 1st credit had passed the account to them for collection (I only got 1st credit's letter a week ago and they replied 21 May) - what shall I do?

[ODC]

Standard 1st Crud nonsense. Most DCAs will not supply the actual deed of assignment as it would show how little they paid for the alleged debt. If they were to go to court you could ask the Court to demand they produce it. You should get a letter though from the OC saying that the alleged debt has been assigned. As for the £10 charge for statements this is absolute nonsense

Part of their compliance with the CCA request is providing a statement of account - it's in s77(1)(a)(b)© of the Act for loans or s78(1)(a)(b)© for credit cards.

Ignore MH. 1st should not have passed this debt on whilst it was in dispute as in they havent produced a CCA yet. If you really want to write to MH then send them this

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

Dear Sir or Madam,

Account number: XXXX XXXX XXXX XXXX

 

I must admit that I am rather bemused as to why this account has been passed to yourselves, as it is in dispute with the **original creditor/DCA** and has been since DATE 2007.

Not only is this a breach of OFT collection guidelines, but also in breach of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and Data Protection Act 1998

 

My last letter from **original creditor/DCA** was DATE and intimated that my complaint would be

resolved on **DATE**, this obviously hasn’t happened.

As **original creditor/DCA** are now in default of my Consumer Credit Act request, OFT Collection Guidelines, *Subject Access request and have also breached *s10 Data Protection Act request , I consider this account to be in SERIOUS DISPUTE.

 

As you are aware while my Consumer Credit Act request remains in default enforcement action is NOT permitted, under s127 this constitutes a complete defence at law.

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Now I would respectfully suggest that this account is returned to the **original creditor/DCA** for resolution of these defaults and breaches, as **New DCA** cannot lawfully pursue any enforcement activities.

 

If **New DCA** chooses to ignore my dispute and attempt enforcement, I will initiate legal action and file reports with the appropriate authorities, including, but not limited to, Trading Standards, Office of Fair Trading, Information Commissioners Office, Financial Ombudsman Service and possible court action.

 

After taking advice, I am of the opinion that any continued pursuit is in violation of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40 as well as breaching a number of the OFT Collection Guidelines

 

I hope that this will not be necessary and an acceptable solution can be accomplished.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

Yours faithfully

[joeblogs]

ODC, Thanks so much for your quick response. I am so grateful for your help. I will do everything you suggest. I cannot thank you enough, I feel so much better now.

[ODC]

No worries. I have had dealings with these muppets myself

[joeblogs]

ODC could you please answer this question for me. As you know I have sent a CCA request to 1st Credit. I have read about the 12 working day rule and something has also been said about 30 days. Am I right in thinking that if they do not produce the Copy Agreement within 12 working days, then they cannot enforce any legal action in Court? Also, what is the 30 days about, and is this 30 days additional to the 12 days i.e. 42 days, or is it included, and what are they legally able to do. Many thanks.

[ODC]

When you make a CCA request a company has 12 working days from the receipt of your request to produce a properly executed CCA. If the do not they become in Legal Default of your request. If they have not produced it after a further Calendar Month then they commit a Summary Offence.

 

They cannot enforce through the Courts until they produce a VALID CCA. I have never heard of any DCA being prosecuted for not producing a CCA within the timescales. Indeed if it takes them 3months or six months to produce it they still can enforce it. However if 6 years pass (5 in Scotland) from you last payment then the deby becomes Statute Barred and they can do nothing whatsoever

[joeblogs]

ODC advised me in May 2008 to send a CCA to 1st Credit. I did this and received acknowlegement that they were going to ask MBNA to produce this document, they also mentioned 'should your request also include the below docs, please be advised of the following: Deed of Assisgment - we would refer you to Section 136 of the Law of Property Act 1925 which provides that the debtor is notified of the assignment of the debt in writing and not a copy of the Deed itself. Copy statements - there is a charge of £10 for this information. At almost the same time as receiving this holding letter from 1st crud, I get a letter from mackenzie hall chasing the same debt. I sent ODC's 'bemused' letter to them and received an undated 'note' from them saying I had ignored their letter. I immediately wrote back (18 June) and enclosed the electronic proof of Recorded Delivery posting stating that K MacDougall has signed to received the letter on behalf of their outfit on 27 May. I have now received a 'reduced settlement offer' letter dated 11 July. I am just going to ignore it. I have not heard anymore from 1st crud, although I understand that ODC is still waiting to hear about his CCA after 7 months. I am just a bit confused as to why MH are also trying to collect this alleged debt when they know that I have requested a CCA via 1st crud. Any ideas. Thanks, this is a great forum.

[babybear39]

MH aren't the brightest. As you've already advised them that 1st crud have been CCA'd, report them to Trading Standards and the OFT.

[joeblogs]

I am looking for advice again please.

 

Back in May this year I received a demand for payment from 1st Credit.

I asked for help and ODC advised me to send a CCA request letter which I did.

 

At more or less the same time I also received a letter from Mac Hall for the same debt.

 

ODC advised I send the 'bemused' letter to Mac Hall, again I followed this advice.

Ever since then I have been hounded by Mac Hall for this same debt.

 

I have written to them a couple of times saying that I have requested the CCA from 1st Credit, the last time I wrote (last week) I also reported their nuisance letters to their local Trading Standards Department and sent them copies of all correspondence.

 

I also wrote to 1st Credit last week informing them of Mac Halls interference and stating that they had defaulted on producing the CCA info requested and asking for a time scale as to when I would receive it.

 

The only correspondence I have received from 1st Credit since I sent them the CCA request stated a waiting time of 6-8 weeks - this has long since passed.

 

Today I receive from Mac Hall a photocopy of my original signed Application Form and a demand for full settlement within the next 7 days. They have also left me an automated message on my phone.

 

Does the Application Form act as an executed Consumer Credit Agreement?

and can you please advise me how to respond.

Thank you all in advance.

[sytra]

Can you post up the application form minus any personal details, an application can be an executed aggreement if it contains the required info

 

Sytra

[joeblogs]

Hi, although the copy is on A4 paper, it has been reduced down to about A5 and is of very poor quality that I can hardly read it. I will have to go and get a photocopy and ask if they can increase the size of the copy, then I may be able to post it but it is doubtful. Any body else got any thoughts on whether an application form for a credit card is a consumer credit agreement? Thanks for you help.

[Guest forgottenone]

I will have to go and get a photocopy and ask if they can increase the size of the copy

 

If you have a scanner, then you don't need to get it photocopied. Exactly the same as a photocopy. You can enlarge without getting a photocopy. Then post the image here for people to look at. Just saving you the trouble TBH.

 

Any body else got any thoughts on whether an application form for a credit card is a consumer credit agreement?

 

The whole point here is to see what's contained in the application form. As to whether it's properly executed. There is also some regulation somewhere stating that if you cannot read what you have been sent then obviously you cannot tell what you are liabel for.

[joeblogs]

Thanks for that forgottenone. I dont have a scanner but my daughter does, so I will ask her tomorrow to help with this task. Will hopefully post the form up tomorrow.

[creditcardmug]

Joe, an app form can be an agreement provided that it has all the prescribed terms and your signature is on it, it may say that the terms are overleaf, thats why you need to scan it up if you can, so others can give an opinion on it

[joeblogs]

Mac Hall sent me a copy of my application form following my request for CCA - not sure if the application form is the same as CCA. I dont know how to make it larger. Can someone help please?

 

 

 

[Having_A_Knightmare]

Cant really read it but on the second page there is some finacial information I can just make out.

 

Can you proof both documents are part of the same agreement?

[joeblogs]

Hi, I have tried again to attach these documents to make them larger. Not sure if it will work, can anyone please advise me whether you think this is MBNA application form is an actual CCA and enforceable. If it is, what do I do now with Muck Hall. Thanks for the help.

Muck Hall 1.doc

Muck Hall 2.doc

[creditcardmug]

If that is the front and back of the same form then it could be, but it would have to say something like see overleaf for terms IMHO

[FunkyFox]

As CCM says it depends if they can prove if this is front and back of the same document. The prescribed terms shoud be within the 4 corners of the signature document but that could mean the back and front of one piece of paper or document.

 

The issue in cases like this (I have one of my own) is can they prove that they are both part of the same document. Also it is ALMOST certainly a microfiche copy (see the black edges and the fact it was A5). They may need to produce the original in court.

 

It all depends what outcome you want and how far you are prepared to take matters.

 

Other questions, was the account assigned or is still with MBNA, have you had a default notice from anyone?

 

Here to help if we can, good luck.

[Jipdog7]

One thing the copy they send you has to be is legible (be able to read it easily) and if that is as good as the one you have then I'd say it isn't. They also have to include the terms & conditions from when the agreement was taken out, not a later version which is what MBNA usually do.

[joeblogs]

Thanks for all your help. Shall I write and tell them that I cannot read the microfiche copy and ask them to send a legible copy and also ask them to prove that the terms and conditions are from the same document. Shall I also tell them that they will have to take the original document to any Court Hearing? Cannot remember if I have received a Default Notice, shall I also request a copy of this? The account is now assigned to Mackenzie Hall, First Credit have bought the debt for peanuts and passed it for collection to Muck Hall. I want to fight this all the way so any advice is greatfully received.

[joeblogs]

Just bumping this up. Any advice as to how I should word the letter (details in post 13 above) Thanks.

[creditcardmug]

Yes tell them you require a legible copy and provide proof that this is the front/back of the same doc. dont ask for a copy of the DN, (you would put them to strict proof that they sent it and that it was valid if the matter became a court case), but dont tell them that either.

You could also require them to provide a valid Notice of Assignment from them, and also one sent to you direclly form the Original Creditor. Tell them you req this in order to confirm they have a right to collect.

 

Say that you regard this matter as in Serious Dispute, and they must cease all collection activity until its resolved to your satisfaction.

 

Head the letter I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY OR ANY COMPANY YOU CLAIM TO REPRESENT.

 

Do not sign just type your name.

 

Thats the jist of what you want to say to them, ill have look around to see if ive got a suitable letter later, if your having any problems with it.

 

Hope this helps CCM.

[joeblogs]

Many thanks for all your help CCM, I really do appreciate your advice. If you can find a suitable letter that would be great. Thanks again.

[joeblogs]

I forgot to mention, 1st Credit bought this debt from MBNA and then passed it onto Mackenzie Hall. When I CCA'd 1st Credit part of their reply letter said 'Deed of Assignment - we would refer you to Section 136 of the Law of Property Act 1925 which provides that the debtor is notified of the assignment of the debt in writing and not a copy of the Deed itself. How should I word the letter about asking for a copy of the Deed?