Claim initially struck out but now I must go to Court...

[toto003]

Toto and IGNM, I take it you think I should not have applied for Judgement then? So do you think JonChris and Alanfromderby were wrong? They seemed so certain. This is getting more and more confusing.

What do you think will happen at the hearing? I assume you think that my application will be struck out?

Are there any threads where Judgement has been awarded in similar circumstances? I can't find any.

 

I think that may be a worst case scenario.

 

You are still entitled to claim your reasonable costs under the CPR. I have read a lot more about it over the past few days - and it may be that you should have submitted those costs with your defense.

 

However, you should still call the court tomorrow and find out what you can.

 

Whilst anyone is subject to the "Judge" lottery - You should stick to your guns P4E - But make sure you stress that you are a litigant in person.

 

If it does mean you need to attend a hearing on the 19th of August, you should write down a short statement, along the lines of "I am a litigant in person, and whilst I may not understand the exact formalities of how I need to present everything to you, I ask you to please bear with me so that I may present my case fairly" - or something along those lines.

 

Try not to panic - you know what your worst case scenario is.

[I've got no money]

They have, in my opinion, committed a criminal offence under the Fraud Act and the Malicious Communications Act so it would be unbelievable if they were awarded costs.

 

 

I hate to be difficult but whether they may or may not have committed a criminal offence is a matter for a criminal court...its' not a matter for a District Judge sitting in a County Court - the DJ is not going to want to get involved in something like that

 

The usual order is that costs follow the event - so if you win your application to enter judgment you get your costs of and occasioned by your application if you lose your application (and assuming that they turn up at all - which is quite a big assumption) then they will almost certainly apply for their costs and, IMO, have a very good (70% plus) chance of getting them.

 

Have you complained to the Solicitors Regulation Authority about them?

[paying4ever]

I hate to be difficult but whether they may or may not have committed a criminal offence is a matter for a criminal court...its' not a matter for a District Judge sitting in a County Court - the DJ is not going to want to get involved in something like that

I don't think you are being difficult. I really appreciate your thoughts (even though I don't like them! )

 

Have you complained to the Solicitors Regulation Authority about them?

Not yet but I will certainly be doing just that and also reporting them to Trading Standards. I do think they should be prosecuted. Their letter to me constitutes potential fraud in my opinion although I am under no illusion that the chances of any action being taken against them are virtually non-existent!

 

If you have any ideas on how I could best present my case at the hearing I would be very grateful. I am researching constantly but I have to admit I seem to be going round in circles at the moment.

[I've got no money]

I've been reading the CPR - more specifically Part 24 - I think that AFD and JC are probably right - sorry for panicking you...

 

The problem is that I don't tend to go for things just because I'm told to...I need to understand why I should do something...

 

PART 24 - SUMMARY JUDGMENT - Ministry of Justice

 

If you have a look at

 

CPR 3.5(5) it says that you need to use the Summary Judgment Procedure in Part 24

 

I'd also have a look at CPR 3.6 as well

 

 

 

PART 3 - THE COURT’S CASE MANAGEMENT POWERS - Ministry of Justice

[paying4ever]

Thanks for that IGNM but I'm still unsure why there is to be a hearing. Any thoughts?

[I've got no money]

I think that I'm losing the plot

 

CPR 3.5 (5) actually says that you have to use the Part 23 procedure (not the part 24 procedure - it was late last night and I'd had a tough day...)

 

PART 23 - GENERAL RULES ABOUT APPLICATIONS FOR COURT ORDERS - Ministry of Justice

 

Part 23 is all about how an application should be dealt with...

 

For some reason the Court thinks that it is appropriate for a hearing...to be honest I'm not really sure why?

[paying4ever]

I think that I'm losing the plot

 

CPR 3.5 (5) actually says that you have to use the Part 23 procedure (not the part 24 procedure - it was late last night and I'd had a tough day...)

I know the feeling! Thanks a lot for your help. I am very grateful.

 

PART 23 - GENERAL RULES ABOUT APPLICATIONS FOR COURT ORDERS - Ministry of Justice

 

Part 23 is all about how an application should be dealt with...

 

For some reason the Court thinks that it is appropriate for a hearing...to be honest I'm not really sure why?

I'm totally baffled as well. I suppose I will just have to be prepared for anything and then play it by ear when I get to the hearing.

 

I'll post what happens at the hearing. Hopefully it will go my way.

[paying4ever]

Well the hearing couldn’t have gone any better! Arrow or their solicitor’s didn’t even bother to turn up.

 

Judgement was made in my favour and I also received an order for costs, which Arrow have two weeks to pay.

 

I went well prepared because I really didn’t know what to expect but I didn’t have to say much. The Judge was really annoyed with Arrow and said he had never seen anything like the letter their solicitors sent to me falsely claiming they had obtained Judgement in their favour. He found it extraordinary and said he would have had some serious questions for them to answer had they turned up.

 

I just have to wait now to see if they pay me on time and if not I will have to look at what enforcement procedures I can use.

 

Thanks again to everyone for all their support and input. I’ll let you all know if/when I receive a cheque for costs!

[FunkyFox]

Hi P4E, I'm thrilled you got the outcome you wanted and deserved. The order for costs just makes it all the more sweet.

 

The next thing you must do is to make a complaint to the OFT re: Arrow and the SRA re: Copes. There is no way they could wriggle out of this like Howard Cohen did on this thread http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/192657-howard-cohen-oh-dear.html

 

Hang 'em out to dry I say. Well done!

 

FF

[paying4ever]

Hi P4E, I'm thrilled you got the outcome you wanted and deserved. The order for costs just makes it all the more sweet.

 

The next thing you must do is to make a complaint to the OFT re: Arrow and the SRA re: Copes. There is no way they could wriggle out of this like Howard Cohen did on this thread http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/192657-howard-cohen-oh-dear.html

 

Hang 'em out to dry I say. Well done!

 

FF

 

Thanks Funky!

 

I've just been reading the thread you highlighted and it looks as though this practice is widespread.

 

Have you read this thread? I only found it after reading the thread you highlighted.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/191951-copes-solicitors-have-they.html

 

It seems Cope's have been trying to con everyone and the authorities aren't much bothered! These people should be in jail!

[underdog13]

Just found this thread and wanted to offer my congratulations to P4E:D

[Dorabell]

well done:D

[Pillowcase]

I'm happy for you, P4E. Only just seen this thread, and only looked at the last few posts. I'm gonna go and read it from the beginning now, as intrigued to know all the ins and outs.

 

Well done.

 

 

- I've now read it from the beginning, and what an eye opener it was! That letter was outrageous!!!

Edited August 6, 2009 by Pillowcase
Updated

[Gazza112]

Congratulations P4E great result.

 

Gaz

[toto003]

toto003 - could you give me a link to some threads where a case has been struck out and the Cagger has got a judgment on the claim - I don't mean cases where there has been subsequent cost proceedings but where there has been a decision on the substantive case

 

Errr... this thread

 

 

Well done P4E

[paying4ever]

Well I can’t say I’m surprised but I have not received payment for my costs from Arrow Global. (The Judgment gave them until the 20th August).

 

I have phoned the court and they have not made any application for variation or set-aside. I can now make an application and issue a warrant which will cost me £100. The bailiffs will recover my fee from any goods they seize and sell.

 

I just have a couple of concerns before I do that. If I send off my £100 today and receive their cheque tomorrow for the original costs, would I still be able to chase them for the £100 fee for issuing a warrant?

 

Is it normal practice to give them some extra time before issuing a warrant and/or should I contact them first to ask if they intend to pay?

 

I have searched the site but cannot find any similar cases so any input would be very much appreciated.

[toto003]

Well I can’t say I’m surprised but I have not received payment for my costs from Arrow Global. (The Judgment gave them until the 20th August).

 

I have phoned the court and they have not made any application for variation or set-aside. I can now make an application and issue a warrant which will cost me £100. The bailiffs will recover my fee from any goods they seize and sell.

 

I just have a couple of concerns before I do that. If I send off my £100 today and receive their cheque tomorrow for the original costs, would I still be able to chase them for the £100 fee for issuing a warrant?

 

Is it normal practice to give them some extra time before issuing a warrant and/or should I contact them first to ask if they intend to pay?

 

I have searched the site but cannot find any similar cases so any input would be very much appreciated.

 

 

There are some threads about this P4E (it will take some digging to find), and this concurs with advise I recieved from another LIP in the court waiting room.

 

Apparently you should use the High Court baliffs (I think it costs a little bit more) - but they have more rights, and are much better at recovering monies than county court baliffs are.

 

as for them paying AFTER you have instructed baliffs, as far as I know - they still have to pay the baliffs costs (it is a court order after all).

 

suffice to say there are threads about this already

[DonkeyB]

Well I can’t say I’m surprised but I have not received payment for my costs from Arrow Global. (The Judgment gave them until the 20th August).

 

I have phoned the court and they have not made any application for variation or set-aside. I can now make an application and issue a warrant which will cost me £100. The bailiffs will recover my fee from any goods they seize and sell.

 

I just have a couple of concerns before I do that. If I send off my £100 today and receive their cheque tomorrow for the original costs, would I still be able to chase them for the £100 fee for issuing a warrant?

 

Is it normal practice to give them some extra time before issuing a warrant and/or should I contact them first to ask if they intend to pay?

 

I have searched the site but cannot find any similar cases so any input would be very much appreciated.

 

Surfaceagent's brilliant line is 'the cost lies where it falls', I think... so if they pay you after you have paid the court, they're stuffed. And what fun you would have selling tickets to watch the bailiffs go in!

[toto003]

Not strictly true as, amongst others, they do have the power to force entry on commercial premises if they have a valid WoE unlike CC bailiffs

 

This is why creditors transfer up to the High Courtt for enforcement

 

Hi P4E,

 

I finally found the post (or one similar) to what I was mentioning. (my emphasis in bold/underline).

 

there a little more info in that thread that you might find interesting.

 

HTH

 

toto

[paying4ever]

Just to let you all know that I didn't apply to issue a warrant. Mainly because I was struggling to raise the £100 fee.

Anyway, I'm glad to say it wasn't necessary in the end because I received a cheque for my costs the other day and it cleared in my account today! A month late but I can live with that!

Thanks again to everyone who has helped me with this. It really is very much appreciated and I cannot thank you all enough.