Blind-vs-Clark & Mitchell-Lloyds TSB

[blind-as-a-bat]

are Solicitors ex bus dirvers? you wait months with nothing then two (for now )turn up at the same time ( you will see what i mean here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/152198-can-anyone-tell-me.html)

 

Lovely letter from Clark & Mitchell re an alleged Loyds TSB personal loan, CCA sent over two months ago, no responce whatsoever so it appears that Lloyds TSB believe they dont have to comply with the law but will still rely on it to try and enforce a desputed debt.

 

At this point the standered "bog off acount in despute" seems the correct course, if so thats no problem, but if there is anything i should know about this lot or if thats not apropriate with them for any reason feel free to comment

[Guest Old_andrew2018]

Bump

[42man]

Send them this....

 

Dear Sirs

 

I refer to your letter of 20th February 2008 which was received today.

 

Frankly, I am surprised of the need to advise a firm of solicitors about the terms and conditions surrounding my Consumer Credit Agreement requests (Consumer Credit Act, 1974); dated 12th January and 25th January 2008 for both of which I have proof of receipt . I can only assume therefore that they failed to inform you of their non compliance. Your client has until 6th March 2008 to comply with a legal request.

 

Should your client persist with threats of legal action as stated in your letter, I will welcome the opportunity for a judge to look at several offences committed by Lloyds TSB under The Consumer Credit Act, 1974, as well as your client’s non-compliance with and total disregard for the law on this occasion.

[blind-as-a-bat]

Thanks for the Bump old_andrew2007.

 

I did mean to update but got bogged down with my other problem/thread.

 

I replied monday, and the gist of it follows what you have put 42man so thanks for confirming i was right to say it, although my version ended up four pages long:oops:, and left no room for doubt (i hope) to there position in this legal or otherwise.

 

To be honest though after the fiasco in my GE thread i cant help feeling it wont make any differance no matter what i put.

 

I would like to point out that on this the actuall alledged loan, give or take £100 or so has actually been paid back in effect according to the figures in the letters so far so they are technicaly chaseing the intrest of the personel loan, so with no agreemant, there not entitled too it anyway in theory untill they produce an agreemant. not sure the theory works in practice though or has any effect There has also been around £50 added somewhere, while in default of my CCA i believe.

 

I will let you know what they intend, i gave seven days to indicate there intentions so shouldnt be long before i hear something.

 

Thanks again for the replys, i will update as soon as i get a responce.

[blind-as-a-bat]

Sorry make that £135 has been added i forgot to check the ballence on the soliciters letter:oops:

[blind-as-a-bat]

Just a little update, no news from soliciters, but got a apolagetic letter acknowledging my complaint from LTSB who are going to carry out an immediate investigation, but could take up to 28 days:rolleyes:

 

Am i being cynical in reading that as we need more time to come up with a good excuse why we havnt supplied a reply to your CCA? and rap it up in a load of legaly incorect rubish?

[tendogs]

A little cynical perhaps? ................................. apart from the fact that all of them; the OCs who allow the DCAs (some of which they own) to do their dirty work, the DCAs who take no responsibility at all, ever, the CRAs who manipulate misuse and sell our data and then attribute responsibility for their foul actions elsewhere, the toothless and flaccid enforcement agencies who do very little to protect us, the banks who lose billions of pounds speculating on sub-prime markets and then allow their CEOs to stay in work at a million pound a year (before bonus) while the tax payer bails them out. Yes all of them have colluded in developing an industry where the power is so skewed in their favour that we flounder about trying desperately to impose some form of regulation while they threaten and pursue, ruin reputations and will not account for their actions.

 

I hate them.

 

I could go on.

 

But won’t.

 

Regards and good hunting,

 

Dogs

[blind-as-a-bat]

Hmmm another letter from the TSB stateing they have not been able to resolve my issues, and the will be in touch again within another 28 days.

 

Sounds like there stalling to me, hope they have "misplaced" something hence the delay If so i just hope it stays lost:rolleyes:

[blind-as-a-bat]

Ok at last a responce with a copy of an agreemant, or so they say, it is not easily readable.

 

 

 

But if they have the origanal and can provide a better scan from what i can see i may be up against it here.

 

Thhere is also a page 1 of 3 at the bottem, but i only have two pages, so they aint there yet, but if anyone can make out the first page from the scan, will it be enforceable if they can correct the legabilaty and missing page issue?

 

PS the barcode on page two has the account number under it so the two are tied, if it is on the origanal

 

What makes me angry is i have waited since the 30th of may for any responce, and not only do they send something that ilegible, in the same post i get these

 

 

 

 

 

 

Firstly it would be nice if they allowed me time to look at the dam thing and time for me to post a responce before threatening me because i have not responded:rolleyes:

 

 

And as for the sols opening line, thats just an insult, they got a four page responce to there last letter, and i have the proof.

 

 

Rant over:grin:

[AndyOrch]

Hi Blind

 

What is your intended defence going to be?

 

 

Regards

 

Andy;)

[blind-as-a-bat]

Hi Andy Its not got that far yet this is just there so called response to my CCA request, but it appears all prescribed terms may be there, although im not sure if when it states the agreemant should contain the amount of credit whether that should include intrest for a fixed rate loan, which i believe this to be. so on that score im not sure if this is enforceable or not

 

At the moment they are still in default of said CCA request as i can not be expected to accept whats in front of me as easaly legable (if at all), nor is it complete as there is a page missing and they have not sent a statement of account.

[AndyOrch]

Yes no interest is showing or part of the credit and it does not state the monthly repayment amounts so on that virtue the perscribed terms are not complete.

Did you sign this agreement on the premises and if not did you ever recieve a cancelation notice?

 

hHave you recieved a default note yet for this loan?

 

Andy

[blind-as-a-bat]

Sorry for delay, Yes we do have default notice, but i do need to go back and check it now.

 

Im a bit confused as to the rest of your reply, the monthly payment is shown, as is the amount of the cash advance, there is two intrest rates mentioned, the APR and a rate a month i think it states, but i cant be sure what that rate says.

 

I was under the impresion this was a fixed rate personal loan, so expected to see a total amount for credit in figures, but am unclear if that is a prescribed term.

 

It certainly is very unclear what the total amount of credit is to be re payed should be, which i find odd for a fixed term loan.

 

Oh this was an online aplication, the forms where sent to us to sign and return i believe.

[AndyOrch]

Hi Blind

 

Apologies im going as blind as a bat:D

 

Yes I see the repayments now as for the total interest you are quite right without the aid of a calculator difficuilt to summise and I understand total interest should be clear and showing otherwise why would you sign for somthing not known. Check your Default note and see if any rebate is shown.As to enforcability its a difficult one to call.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[blind-as-a-bat]

Thanks Andy, It certainly isnt enforceable from this copy as i cant read the bits that explain how its calculated, not with any certanty. and you would need the terms and conditions to work out how the intrest was calculated at the time of signing, the problem is where they available at the time of signing, as they are on a seperate un-signed sheet that is a tough one to prove ....for them

 

Could be intresting this one:roll:

 

One other thing, i just noticed the bank signed and dated it three days before my OH did, i assume that just made it binding straight away and has no other bearing on things

[AndyOrch]

Thanks Andy, It certainly isnt enforceable from this copy as i cant read the bits that explain how its calculated, not with any certanty. and you would need the terms and conditions to work out how the intrest was calculated at the time of signing, the problem is where they available at the time of signing, as they are on a seperate un-signed sheet that is a tough one to prove ....for them

 

Could be intresting this one:roll:

 

One other thing, i just noticed the bank signed and dated it three days before my OH did, i assume that just made it binding straight away and has no other bearing on things

 

 

You can have a situation where the creditor signs the agreement 1st, effectively so it becomes binding on both parties once it's signed by the debtor. The problem however, that I see with your agreement is that they are not following the normal procedure in that [the contract] becomes binding upon the sig of the debtor. They have inserted a condition precedent, which essentially means they are dispensing with the normal rules of offer and acceptance in contracts and saying that until such time as they are satisfied with their checks, the agreement is not binding. So if it didn't become binding upon you signing it, when did it? In my opinion, there would need to be a further document that both parties signed, I would contend that this could amount to a pre-contractual document. These circumstances are certainly unusual

 

Andy

[blind-as-a-bat]

OK sent a very stern letter to both TSB colections and there sol pluss CC to the person who handled the complaint, in short saying that document wont cut it as i could hardly read it and was incomplete and does not contain all the prescribed terms regarding amounts of credit.

 

I expected another threat back in return from the sols but go a relativly nice offer of a reduced payment instead, for six months, not that it helps as we cant afford that either, which was made clear would be the case even if they could prove the alledged debt , but the question is why the change of tact?

 

To get me to admit the debt maybe, or have i hit on a flaw in the agreemant that makes it unenforceable after all? (hey i can live in hope cant i:p)

 

Well i had seven days to respond from the date on the letter, shame that had expired before i actually recieved it though.

 

Will be intresting what they do next, no doubt it will be back to threats again:rolleyes:

 

Funny though, this time i made it a formal complaint to the TSB themselves, but not heard a thing about that

[citizenB]

Hi BAB, I thought this might have something to do with LTSB and SC&M when you linked me from your other thread:roll:

 

You have already discovered that not only do LTSB have a major problem communicating with their customers.. they have the same problem communicating with their "solicitors". LTSB write a letter saying they are looking into your query.. SC&M write saying our client has instructed us blah, blah.

 

Meanwhile, they have probably passed the account on to someone else ??.

 

Do you keep the envelopes these letters come in ?, especially when there is such a wide margin between the date of the letter and the date you receive them.

 

I think all you can do is wait for a response to the letter you sent them just recently.. but dont hold your breath.

 

That point andy has raised about the agreement being a pre contractural document looks pretty interesting, is there any more information regarding that andy ?

[RedVixen]

Hi BAB - I have had dealings with SCM and no they never acknowledge letters even though you have a record of them receiving them. They ignored every offer that was made including one made by CAB. Demanded a ridiculous ammount again saying if I kept to it LLoyds would consider rescheduling in six months time - really!! and at what interest rate I wonder

 

If they play to form this will briefly go back to collections and then to Apex who will eventually send a letter on another solicitors headed paper.

 

CB this lack of communications with their solicitors is appalling considering SCM are based in the same building as LLoyds Collections and if you SAR them you will find customer notes added after phone calls allegedly made by SCM

[blind-as-a-bat]

Hmm so it looks like SCM may not be what they seem, which i suspected after i recieved that responce to a complaint i never made to the TSB themselves, as it was from the same building.

 

Still waiting for them to ignore my last comunication and issue another threat.

[RedVixen]

Oh they are a solictors, there is a registered solicitor actually based in the building nice doubled barreled name as I remember but they bulk process for LLoydsTSB collections it may even be LLoyds staff running the mailouts with their paper. I got the same thing when I sent SCM the telephone harassment letter a response form LLoyds saying they would not uphold my complaint - in that case it was tough it wasn't a complaint it was a demand and the calls form SCM did stop - they started calling form collections again instead - same number incidentely

[angel_1]

hiya BB

 

another mutual customer of ours, lol

 

im subbing even to only offer you some support and humour, but really i think you will be helping me more with your knowledge at the moment

 

so you have not heard anymore on this one, and you have stopped making payments im guessing,

 

so the default notice is it valid too> hoping it wasnt for your sake though

 

is this the roundabout im to expect now, keep on going i guess what a life

 

keep happy and wishing everyone lots of luck for 2009

 

laters angel x