Book club (Grolier) - responsibility for goods?

[SeanT]

Despite my efforts to get my wife to cancel her book club memberships with their ridiculous prices and tendency to send you stuff you don't want without asking, she still belongs to GROLIER CHILDREN'S BOOKS

 

They sent a massive box of books, that they appear to value at some 160 quid, without us ordering them - indeed, when they last spoke to me on the phone (just before these books showed up at the doorstep), I told them in no uncertain terms not to send us any other books unless we ordered them.

 

The wife phoned up and sent them back, no problem, Grolier instructed a courier to collect the books on their behalf and return them to Grolier.

 

Courier turned up, I signed for the collection (on a PDA) - and wasn't given any sort of receipt - we ignored the invoice for the books as the terms and condtions clearly state that the cost of the books is removed from the account in full once the books have "been returned."

 

Grolier have now sent final demands etc. for the self same set of books, claiming that they did not receive the returned items.

 

I fail to see how this can be our problem? The books have never belonged to us, we rejected them as we did not want them nor order them, and have returned them in good faith. The books never changed hands, Grolier own and have responsibility for the items that they sent out that we did not agree to purchase - we stored them and made them available for collection as we had rejected them. As Grolier instructed the courier, we would not expect to receive any documentation about the returns process, and I handed them over to the courier in person. Surely the onus is upon them to trace the items that they had a contract with the courier to collect and recover, and we don't have to prove anything (and of course can't, as we weren't given a receipt for the package)

 

Had we sent the items back ourselves, we would have used an insured and tracked service, and kept proof of postage, and obtained proof of delivery, as we would be taking responsibility for the return - as it stands, we have never had legal responsibility for the items, and the contract to return said items is solely between Grolier and their courier (who did not make themselves known to us, other than stating that they had a parcel to collect for grolier)

 

Further to all this, I can't find any proper terms and conditions on any of the paperwork that they have sent us, including the first invoice - there are things like "you must obtain proof of postage if you return an item to us" - but I haven't returned anything to them, only made it available for collection at their convenience.

 

Do they have a leg to stand on under DSR (cp) regs? Anyone had any dealings with these cowboys?

[Conniff]

I think you can relax over this one Sean.

 

Do still have where it says 'contract to return is soley between Grolier and their courier', if so don't do anything unless they contact you again and then come and post back here.

[SeanT]

Do still have where it says 'contract to return is soley between Grolier and their courier', if so don't do anything unless they contact you again and then come and post back here.

 

I think there's a teeny bit of confusion here - this isn't written down anywhere... it's just clear to me that as I don't even know who the courier company are, no contract can exist between me and them.

 

It has also become apparent that by sending all the books at once and then asking my wife to pay for them by monthly instalments, that they should come a cropper if I do a CCA request, as her indoors can't remember signing anything to this effect (the first lot of books were shipped one at a time, and then invoiced and paid for, so not a credit agreement, but a whole box of books with value stated upfront and paid for over x months clearly is...)

[SeanT]

OK, so they sent another demand for payment for the "next instalment" of £4.99 - her balance on this account is £159.68. We don't have the damn books so won't be paying for them - have written them a letter stating that I sent the receipt off a few days after they asked for it, and the onus isn't upon my wife to prove that their courier complied with their instructions.

[SeanT]

Dear Nicola,

 

I enclose a copy of a demand for payment for an unsolicited delivery of a large parcel of books to the address above on 28th May this year (I actually spoke to a representative on the telephone personally, who called me at home, and during the conversation stated that I was not interested in “previewing” this collection at all – they later phoned and spoke to my husband, SeanT, who confirmed that he could act on my behalf, and also stated categorically that I had no interest in receiving these books.) The books were delivered anyway, and delivery of the books was taken by a relative who was at our home, and who had not been instructed to refuse the delivery (which is entirely reasonable, as the aforementioned large parcel was neither welcome nor expected.) This series account number is no longer valid, as I have returned the books as requested, and need do no more to address the issue.

 

I spoke again to somebody from Grolier, by contacting your call centre on the national rate phone number, and arranged a collection of the parcel. The courier failed to turn up, so I contacted you again, and rearranged the collection. A courier arrived after the second attempt to arrange a collection and collected the parcel of books from my husband, who was in at the time. He obtained a receipt for the collection, and told me that the books had gone back with somebody acting on behalf of (and instructed by) your company.

 

I received a letter on 11th August asking for the delivery note, as your company claimed to have failed to receive the returned parcel (which was now in the hands of the courier that you instructed, and thus no longer my responsibility). I contacted you about this letter on 11th August on the (08702) 404385 service to ask why this was necessary, as I had not sent the books back personally, they had been collected. Fortunately, my husband still had this, and duly sent the collection receipt to the address above on 15th August.

 

I trust that this matter is now concluded, as I have complied with your terms and conditions and your requests to prove something that there is nonetheless no onus upon me to prove. Please refrain from contacting me with further demands for payment – I never asked for the great big box of books, never agreed to pay you £159.68 over 32 months for them, and I don’t have them either. I told you that I didn’t want them, both before and after receiving them, and I don’t.

 

Please refrain from sending me any more books, promotional literature or anything else for that matter – please consider this letter a notice of cancellation of any membership that I may hold to your “exclusive club.”

 

Kindest Regards,

Edited September 10, 2008 by SeanT

[Bookworm]

Sean, you have left your real surname in the letter, I'd advise you to edit it. ;-)

 

As regards the books issue, shame you didn't just tell them to sod off in the 1st place, as you don't have to do anything about unsolicited goods at all:

 

Unsolicited Items

 

Under the Unsolicited Goods and Services Act 1971, (as amended) it is an offence to demand payment for goods known to be unsolicited, in other words, they were sent to a person without any prior request made by them or on their behalf.

 

 

Someone who receives goods in these circumstances may retain them as an unconditional gift, and does not have to pay for or return any unwanted goods. Anyone who receives a demand for payment for unsolicited goods should report the matter to their local Trading Standards Department.

 

However, in the case of unsolicited goods received before 1 November 2000, the recipient is required to give notice to the sender to collect them within 30 days, or otherwise to wait for 6 months, before being able to treat the goods as their own property.

Unsolicited Items - BERR

[gyzmo]

I would be wary. There is a case against the readers digest some years back which determined what constituted unsolicited in the sense of them knowingly sending out goods. The full name escapes me but there are interesting repurcussions from it. I shall try and dig it out later.