G E Money and Secret Commissions

[42man]

Yes...you paid for all those

[iconoclash]

WOW - and this is the product that is mis-sold and ive sent it in to the FOS to look at. The broker clearly gave lots of false informaton that doesnt match what we gave him - for example , my partner is not a british citizen but on these forms he has magically been transformed into one, so ive sent his later citizenship certificate off to the FOS also - hope they will act againt this outfit and if not then i guess i will have to try the courts but the lender has been swallowed up by some mega corp. who have spent years denying they are connected to them - will put info up in the right place for the lender in question.

 

thanks

[42man]

Is the broker still trading ?

[andrew1]

TBH 42man, does this not show that commission was declared to the borrower?

 

Completion fee payable by client to lender £499.

Completion fee payable by client to broker £2,995.

Title Ins paybale by client to lender £150

Chaps fee by client to lender £45

Procuration/Commission fee payable by lender to broker £295

Procuration/Commission fee payable by lender to broker £2537

 

That last one looks as if it is a declaration of a payment to the broker as commission which would negate any secrecy of a hidden broker fee? campari2 says this was on an old mortgage document. Unless I've msised something, this wouldn't get far IMHO.....prove me wrong....pleeeease.! LOL

[42man]

Good point A1....it depends if the 'old' document is the underwriting sheet that has been sent in mistake (maybe the OP can tell us this)....I personally feel the OP may have some recourse as there seem to be some serious discrepancies - e.g. - "for example , my partner is not a british citizen but on these forms he has magically been transformed into one"

[andrew1]

Good point A1....it depends if the 'old' document is the underwriting sheet that has been sent in mistake (maybe the OP can tell us this)....I personally feel the OP may have some recourse as there seem to be some serious discrepancies - e.g. - "for example , my partner is not a british citizen but on these forms he has magically been transformed into one"

 

That's a very good point 42man, if this document IS an Underwriting sheet that would make all the difference so perhaps campari can tell us to identify that document and what it represents as an old document? - Campari?

 

There are other issues I agree and I noticed what you pijted out, any changes to application forms etc would be deemed fraud I believe and they will have some difficulty with this. The key is to check every word and statement as the 'keep it simple' approach uncovers so much. Some people look too deeply when the answer is so straight forward.

 

over to you campari2!

[iconoclash]

Hi - thanks for responses. The report is from a SAR I did in the past, called Case Summary Report by Imparity Ltd, and lists the application info for the mortgage as presented by the broker company I suppose. It says that the lead is from a newspaper and that I am on income support, which I wasnt. It shows my partners income as double what his pay slips show, the same ones we gave the broker when his came to the house, along with his proof of permission to remain in UK from the Home Office. (not Citizenship) In the Illustration section the scheme is listed as: National & Capital/Rooftop - Stepped Light and in Notes, it says Material Change, clients do not need a new KFI, please re-offer.... redemptions too high. This last bit I recall a conversation about the redemptions on their mortgage offer and said we did not want any as they were originally set at 6%. Having remortgaged before I was worried that we would change product again and be hit with this 6% erc so asked that to be removed or lowered at least. Subsequently we did remortgage and were charged £11,800 - the same damn 6%. The broker seems to have gone out of business now. I am so cross about this as my partner never understood and I have to sort it out after the fact, but this was in 2005 so dont know if FOS will help.

[frettful38]

How do I get my broker to agree that they received more commission than they already did?

[michellej1]

Thanks for all the replies to our thoughts , but arguements about mistakes when not to a term of the contract is a pointless avenue , if this is your fight/arguement you need precedents to back you up , or you will be eaten in court ,

 

To be truthful I have not really been on the forum for a good while , but continued my fight against my lenders , my posts never seem to comand the replies or usefull advise we sought, we sought to attack the lenders from outside the box , we went on different points and attacked from OP's for stating such things , well our fight is very much over , we still do not command attention to our posts , so will bow out gracefully

 

I wish you's all the best of luck in the future , were they is a will ,.........

[maybelline]

how do i ask for an adjournement

URGENT

no poc received no agreement received??????????????????

[maybelline]

interesting and helpful:)

[ro284]

Link won,t work for me! ro

[ro284]

Link Still will not work for me, sorry,

[iconoclash]

Yes very helpful - thank you.

Has anyone got any data on what First National/GE were up to with their fees and hidden costs etc around about 1998?

please

[andrew1]

There are some 'interesting' links in those pages relating to tcf too. taken from the lenders angle, consumers can use these to compare how they are 'actually' treated.

 

The doucment relating to Lending into retirement, when loans are provided and a person is approaching retirement which the loan period runs into. Affordability checks should be taken. Take a strole through these links.

 

Of course, it states these are for 'Internal Use only!

[michellej1]

Yeah great piece of info and helps greatly with secret commission ,

 

And explains why some agreements show no brokers fees , because the secret commission are worth more then the standard 10% of net loan

 

upto 45% of PPI policy in commission + 15% of Premium

5.5% commission of the net advance plus fees

 

bang to rights

 

how can it be denied?

 

Another great section in this internal use document ,

WE WILL WRITE TO YOU ON A MONTHLY BASIS DETAILING ANY CASES THAT HAVE CANCELLED,REQUESTING THE REIMBURSEMENT

 

BROKERS COMMISSION WILL BE CLAWED BACK

 

PLEASE CONTACT YOUR BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT MANAGER FOR INFORMATION ON THE COMMISSION STRUCTURE

conflict of interest is a very likely possibility after reading the above,a commission will be discussed before any agreements or policies are signed or agreeded,

Naughty , Naughty

[andrew1]

Anyone getting a response to anything you ask using these documents above would be greatly appreciated if you could provide feed back on them posted here. This will enable others to form some kind of strategy against GE on this.

 

Thanks

 

A1

[MARTIN3030]

Link posted recently,temp unapproved pending review that it is not compromising the site.

Please bear with us while this is looked at.

[andrew1]

Well let's hope you approve it Martin as it proves unequivicably that commissions are and were paid - something eveyone on the GE threads have been told didn't happen.

[michellej1]

Well let's hope you approve it Martin as it proves unequivicably that commissions are and were paid - something eveyone on the GE threads have been told didn't happen.

 

I agree Andrew , glad I saved it to file ,

 

I will be forwarding this to GE , as you are right it proves 100% that secret commissions are part of the transactions regardless if ppi is included in the agreement , I do not know how they could defend this in court ,

 

Another thing , would this remove the need to seek underwriting sheets to prove a commission if a brokers fee is shown on the agreement ?

 

I attacked without sight of the underwriters sheet and alleged a secret commission was part my transaction , on the grounds that the broker was independant and would need to be paid for his work in regard to the loan recieved,

 

My agreement does not state a fee was paid to my broker , it states brokers involved , but no fees , so can safely say I never paid the broker

SO WHO DID?

 

This new document proves without doubt I was barking up the right tree, and after viewing this document can see the broker will of recieved a 2nd commission from the sale of the ppi policy , 60% in total ,

 

I believe this document should be the final piece of the jigsaw and is dynomite if used correctly

 

looks like a enjoyable weekend constructing another (un-answerable) letter to our friends, not sure if best to quote a few points and see the response , as I think if any form of concealment of these facts , when you have first hand proof straight from the horses mouth , is fraudulent misrepresentation , making the agreement voidable (Rescind) = same results as a secret commission = voidable (Rescind)

 

It will stop the lenders in they tracks once a notice to rescind is sent stating as such, been there done it , can safely say it works

just need to stop answering correspondance giving them further opportunities to wriggle out of the allegations with lame reasons for certain aspects,

 

will update response from G E

Edited August 5, 2011 by michellej1
spelling mistake

[andrew1]

well done michelle, what is a notice to rescind? Never heard of one of those....Point me...

[michellej1]

Notice to Rescind, This is when you kindly inform your lenders by way of notice your legal right to reject the contract and ceased payments

with the added bonus of all monies paid returned (with interest)

 

And the internal will put you in this situation if used correctly , the document proves secret commission is paid without doubt, if this is so, then the agreement is voidable , you can now legally Rescind the contract and the lenders will have an impossible job enforcing the agreement against you in any court,

 

The document even removes the need to explain or argue your point in court , bang to rights are the words I was looking for

 

Do not see much excitement in the thread over latest document , its a killer folks , and Newto thanks again , for one who only has a few posts, you have probably posted the most important on the forum for G E customers , well done

[andrew1]

Notice to Rescind, This is when you kindly inform your lenders by way of notice your legal right to reject the contract and ceased payments

with the added bonus of all monies paid returned (with interest)

 

And the internal will put you in this situation if used correctly , the document proves secret commission is paid without doubt, if this is so, then the agreement is voidable , you can now legally Rescind the contract and the lenders will have an impossible job enforcing the agreement against you in any court,

 

The document even removes the need to explain or argue your point in court , bang to rights are the words I was looking for

 

Do not see much excitement in the thread over latest document , its a killer folks , and Newto thanks again , for one who only has a few posts, you have probably posted the most important on the forum for G E customers , well done

 

 

When you say ' the internal, as in red above, I take it you mean the downloaded info from that source newto supplied Michelle?

 

What I also think we need to be aware of is that if the Agreement is rescinded, then one might still have the balance borrowed to pay back - recission...takes you back to before the event happened.

 

Another thing Michelle, I could'nt quite make out what you were saying here in the post above:

 

Another thing , would this remove the need to seek underwriting sheets to prove a commission if a brokers fee is shown on the agreement ?

 

I attacked without sight of the underwriters sheet and alleged a secret commission was part my transaction , on the grounds that the broker was independant and would need to be paid for his work in regard to the loan recieved,

 

A brokers fee on the agreement would invariably be the commission you paid your broker which gets added to the loan (because most people don't have the money to pay them up front and this broker fee gets added to your loan) Now't wrong with that if it's included correctly if a CCA regulated loan.

 

The secret commission as we refer to here would not appear on the agreement. It would show on an underwriting sheet and that's why we all go looking for them, for concrete proof one was paid in our particular loans. What the website has proved beyond doubt though is that all brokers do indeed get a 'second' commission, according to the size of the loan which should have been declared by the broker to you or me when we took out our loan so that there was absolute transparency in how much he/she receievd from one lender over another.

 

If, for example, we could have this website info newto found for ALL Lenders then we could make comparisons with their commission structures so we could prove beyond doubt also that one lender paid more than another and could perhaps have made the broker bias in which products they sold or tried to sell to customers making the unbiased stance they should have given their fiduciary duty to the consumer to sell you what is suitable to YOU not THEM in bigger commssions from one rather than another!

 

This should have been declared to us by the broker and generally is not which makes it secret in one degree or another. Worst case is they try and hide the fact and conceal it negating any attempt they have made in trying to convince you that it is mentioned in their agreement or some FISA document they allege you were given. If that's the case the case is serious. If secrecy was not so concealed then one might get the broker fees back as you've paid them via higher interest rates rather than being as with the general broker fee we pay, and added to your loan..

Edited August 7, 2011 by andrew1

[michellej1]

When you say ' the internal, as in red above, I take it you mean the downloaded info from that source newto supplied Michelle?

 

YES, You are correct

 

What I also think we need to be aware of is that if the Agreement is rescinded, then one might still have the balance borrowed to pay back - recission...takes you back to before the event happened.

 

Another thing Michelle, I could'nt quite make out what you were saying here in the post above:

 

Another thing , would this remove the need to seek underwriting sheets to prove a commission if a brokers fee is shown on the agreement ?

 

Remove the need to request underwriters sheet to prove a commission was paid, because if your agreement shows a brokers FEE, then without an underwriters sheets what are your reasons for believing a secret commission was paid? the internal would remove the need for the underwriters sheet , do you get my point? straight from horses mouth , no need for evidence in the shape of an underwriters sheet.

 

I attacked without sight of the underwriters sheet and alleged a secret commission was part my transaction , on the grounds that the broker was independant and would need to be paid for his work in regard to the loan recieved,

 

A brokers fee on the agreement would invariably be the commission you paid your broker which gets added to the loan (because most people don't have the money to pay them up front and this broker fee gets added to your loan) Now't wrong with that if it's included correctly if a CCA regulated loan.

 

I disagree with you , if on the agreement then how is it a secret commission ? brokers fees and secret commission are 2 different thing Andrew as you well know ,

 

The secret commission as we refer to here would not appear on the agreement. It would show on an underwriting sheet and that's why we all go looking for them, for concrete proof one was paid in our particular loans. What the website has proved beyond doubt though is that all brokers do indeed get a 'second' commission, according to the size of the loan which should have been declared by the broker to you or me when we took out our loan so that there was absolute transparency in how much he/she receievd from one lender over another.

 

regarding secret commission, I have never stated they have Andrew , that the secret commission would be in any other place then the underwriters sheets , you miss my point , most agreements would show a brokers fee yeah , you alleged a secret commission was paid , lender will not provide underwriters sheet full stop , how would one prove it , so we wait till we have concrete proof ,

With internal no need to wait for underwriters sheet , you now have your proof ,

 

And if for some reason your agreement does not show a brokers fees , you have your reason to request the underwriters sheet , if refused you have your proof without the need for the document ,

as no fee on agreement equals the lender paid an undisclosed commission , refusal to disclose backs up your allegation .

If you have a brokers fee on the agreement , then some form of explanation why you need this document will be request by the lender , you alleged secret commission , you will be asked to prove it , and told that you paid the broker as stated on agreement ,

 

hope i am making sense

 

 

If, for example, we could have this website info newto found for ALL Lenders then we could make comparisons with their commission structures so we could prove beyond doubt also that one lender paid more than another and could perhaps have made the broker bias in which products they sold or tried to sell to customers making the unbiased stance they should have given their fiduciary duty to the consumer to sell you what is suitable to YOU not THEM in bigger commssions from one rather than another!

 

This should have been declared to us by the broker and generally is not which makes it secret in one degree or another. Worst case is they try and hide the fact and conceal it negating any attempt they have made in trying to convince you that it is mentioned in their agreement or some FISA document they allege you were given. If that's the case the case is serious. If secrecy was not so concealed then one might get the broker fees back as you've paid them via higher interest rates rather than being as with the general broker fee we pay, and added to your loan..

 

You see they is a few ways to look at this , and internal should make it easy , I am surprised not many are contributing to this thread , has everyone give in? probably sick of waiting on underwriters sheets , come on folks put your thoughts in ,

[ro284]

Not much for me to contribute, other than on my mortgage/loan, i had a fee To broker Via Bacs 2,000, any arrears, they get nasty and threaten to charge an extra 40 per month to run the account! (worded differently) wish i could put the clock back!Good luck Ro