G E Money and Secret Commissions

[andrew1]

Anyone have a template letter to approach broker/lender re secret payments?

 

I don't think there are templates for that, although I will stand corrected. It would just be a simple question, as I wrote, " Please tell me, apart from the broker fee charged to our account, did your company receive an additional introductory fee from xyz finance company in connection with our loan of xx/xx/xxxx - yes or no and if so how much?

 

You can apply for the underwriting sheet from the loan company although they are not prone to wanting to supply them for obvious reasons-just keep asking.

[P1casso]

Thanks I'll give it a go

[Spursflyer]

I have some associates who work for a company of Debt Advisors . He has informed me that it is widely known within the industry that G E Money and its associated companies has set aside 2 Billion Pounds to pay out against claims for undisclosed commissions .

[andrew1]

I have some associates who work for a company of Debt Advisors . He has informed me that it is widely known within the industry that G E Money and its associated companies has set aside 2 Billion Pounds to pay out against claims for undisclosed commissions .

 

Well isn't that pretty

[OLIVE.FAMILY]

I just found out that the broker who actually admitted to me they had received a commission from the finance company in writing, has now gone broke and wound up....what happens to a claim for secret commission then, do you go after the finance company to retrieve it?

Hi guys

 

Wow these stuff is great. Has anybody got an answer to the above. My mortgage was origionally arranged by The Mortgage lender(TML). WE thought and was led to believe that they were going to search the market for us. We then was told that they found a company for us. This company was actually Kensington Mortgages. TML were in fact owned by them. We were not told of this. Kensington are a subprime company and again were felt that at the time we did not need subprime. We paid TML a commision of sorts to arrange the mortgage which was around £1800. I am also wondering if there was anything else going on in the background. TML are actually closed down now but a comapny called Resolve mortgages do have the customers files as I had a call from them a while ago. So my question is do the secret commisions exist on mortgages as well as secured loans and how do you go about it when the comapny no longer exists.??

 

olives xx

[the main man]

Yes I think you would go after the finance company or whoever had the current mortgage book, you would need to see what paper work you can retrieve from Resolve Mortgages

[magiciansgirl]

Hi Everyone

 

Following my phone call to Capital Law, I got a pack from GiveMeMyMoney!.co.uk this morning. They have the same office address as Capital Law (Cardiff). They've sent a contract in case I want to use their services over secret commission (but I don't). However the information they've sent about what they would ask Blemain/GE etc in an SAR is quite handy and their website is disarmingly frank. They give some advice if people want to go it alone. Their fees are 25% of any sums successfully obtained and it's no win, no fee. The only thing I wold really disagree with is a mysterious charge for telemarketing (?) but I'm sure that could be taken out of a contract. I'm putting this up just for information in case anyone does want to explore using them.

[OLIVE.FAMILY]

Yes I think you would go after the finance company or whoever had the current mortgage book, you would need to see what paper work you can retrieve from Resolve Mortgages

 

I have just spoken to Resolve and they "apparently" only have limited info about me. Just basicly name, adress and when the mortgage completed. The person I spoke to suggested I spoke to Menzies who were like the administrators when tml went under. So I spoke to them and coincidently a few others have also been asking questions this week about TMl and the guy I spoke to has asked the agents for a heap off paperwork so he is going to call me back.

 

olives xx

[Goldlady]

I have some associates who work for a company of Debt Advisors . He has informed me that it is widely known within the industry that G E Money and its associated companies has set aside 2 Billion Pounds to pay out against claims for undisclosed commissions .

 

I wonder if they have kept enough to pay me my ERC of £2.5K as well? And why did I have to pay the ERC? Because the b'stards tried to repossess my house and we managed to refinance the loan with our first mortgage lender. I have already had £2k of charges back from GE but still looking for my £2.5k. Don't think there is commission on ours as we were asked to pay it and told them to get lost.

[HomerJSimpson]

This is all very interesting. I'm in the process of collating all information from GE Money but they don't seem to want to provide details of commissions they paid to Ocean Finance. I've checked my original paperwork and there is no mention of any actual sum paid to Ocean on either the GE docs or the Ocean docs.

 

T&C's mention a commission is payable but there is no disclosure of any amount that i can find.

 

Does this sound at all promising guys?

 

Cheers, Homer

[nevos]

Homer, did you send an SAR? If so write back and ask them for sepcific information, they have to disclose the commission paid, you usually get this with your agreement figures.

[andrew1]

Homer, did you send an SAR? If so write back and ask them for sepcific information, they have to disclose the commission paid, you usually get this with your agreement figures.

 

From what I understand, what you are looking for are the 'Underwriters notes' from the lender. It should state on there what was paid and to whom.

[magiciansgirl]

Hi Homer, you need to SAR Ocean and ask for the underwriting sheet to find out about the commission. However I'm struggling to get The Loan Express, who brokered my loan, to accept a letter; they have denied receipt twice and I sent the last one special delivery; it was languishing in the local collection office until I told the PO to redeliver it yesterday!

Good luck.

[HomerJSimpson]

Homer, did you send an SAR? If so write back and ask them for sepcific information, they have to disclose the commission paid, you usually get this with your agreement figures.

 

Hi and thanks for the reply, yes i did SAR GE Money but they didn't provide much information really. I've written back again asking specifically for

 

Full disclosure details of all commisions secret or otherwise paid by yourselves to Ocean Finance for the brokerage of my secured loan. A true copy of the underwriting sheet, drawdown document or other documents detailing the commissions secret or otherwise paid to Ocean Finance.

 

Hopefully that should do the trick.

[HomerJSimpson]

Hi Homer, you need to SAR Ocean and ask for the underwriting sheet to find out about the commission. However I'm struggling to get The Loan Express, who brokered my loan, to accept a letter; they have denied receipt twice and I sent the last one special delivery; it was languishing in the local collection office until I told the PO to redeliver it yesterday!

Good luck.

 

 

Thanks for that, shall get SAR off to Ocean.

[Guest suziedarkness]

Hi all,

 

sorry to be the bearer of bad news but GE Money will avoid sending anything to do with commissions at all cost.

 

I SAR them last year and all they sent me was statements for one account with them (I have had 5 with them). They know they are in deep ***t!!!!

 

I have written to ICO and they are not much help.

 

I think the only way they will comply is if they are sent a letter from lawyer or maybe you can make a claim against them to comply.

 

I have sent them numerous letters and they just ignore them.

 

If anyone out there knows of any other way to make them comply, please let us know on here.

 

suzie

[HomerJSimpson]

Does this look ok as a SAR for Ocean Finance? Anything else I should ask for my tenner

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

YOUR REF: xxxxxxxxxxxx

 

Please supply me with all data that you hold on me. This includes in particular, but is not limited to, the following:-

 

1. Full disclosure details of all commisions secret or otherwise paid to yourselves by GE Money for the brokerage of my secured loan. A true copy of the underwriting sheet, underwiters notes, drawdown document or any other documents detailing the commissions secret or otherwise paid to Ocean Finance by GE Money.

 

2. Details of all the loans and all lenders that were available to me through your brokerage.

 

3. Copies of the offers of loans available to me, the APR rates, and the key facts illustrations.

 

4. The original signed, executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time the loan was offered. Also the advance copies of the agreement you sent to me, the initial disclosure document and the key facts illustration.

 

5. True copies of the documents advising me of the amounts of commission payable to Ocean Finance with my signature accepting that these amounts were payable.

 

6. Justification that the loan from GE Money was the best available loan for my circumstances from the panel of lenders available to yourselves.

 

7. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations by your company.

 

8. True copies of all correspondence you sent to me regarding my loan application brokered through yourselves.

 

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply.

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However, please note that the above address is the one which you normally use to communicate my private business to me and which you have hitherto found to be acceptable.

 

Yours Faithfully,

 

 

HomerJ

[iconoclash]

Hi - this is the standard letter I usually use - you could add the actual Act that you are referring to but I do like your letter - do you think they'll actually try to wriggle out again!! - no chance

"I hereby request that you divulge all information you currently hold on the above numbered account, under the Data Protection Act 1998, also known as Subject Access Request. This should include all information on loans and insurances. I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply.

In addition to this, I am issuing a request for all information available under section 77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £1.00. You have 12 days in which to comply." Good Luck with this - I had a years worth of struggle with GE over PPI and still not paid it - they have even been fined by the FSA havent they.

[Mark Wilson]

Just want to add this on here. Although it refers to FirstPLus, it is a secured loan and all our various documents will be similar and the modus operandi of all these lenders is essentially the same - the business model relies on the sale of PPI to generate the additional income required to fund the business.

 

I fall under the banner of a secured loan with PPI premium.

 

What I have subsequently found out perhaps brings this thread into a link with another area completely.

 

On the FP ts and cs it states that "the lender will send the cost of the PPI premium overleafto the insurer". NOw whilst you may not think that is out of the ordinary...are they paying the "amount of the PPI premium" to the insurer, which could be any amount OR the "amount of the premium shown overleaf" to the insurer...does it essentially matter but do you see the subtlety in the wording.

 

What we have found through legal sources is that FP is trying to prevent brokers /insurers disclosing what they know as the wording above becomes significant when you find out they only send 60% of the PPI premium to the funder, keeping 40% for themselves and then charging you interest on 100% of the premium for 25 years.

 

Additionally, FP apply certain cashbback terms with regards to its PPI premium thhat are not stipulated on the credit agreement and FP have been known to make it difficult for some to claim back at 60 months. Surely those prescribed terms re cashback have to be included on the document.

 

This whole PPI premium was a lender created profiteering measure to help them make more money out of lending money and the "one document" thing is purely a paperwork shortcut to get a signature as multiple documents were not efficient and would lead to more questions and a sales process that would involve potential objections, so stick it on one doc and let's get on with they said!!!

 

Any thoughts on whether we do have a cross over between secret commissions, the use of the premium, the split of the premium and the lack of key prescribed terms in the credit agreement have any relevance?

 

My broker, Central Trust received £3500 commission for my £35k loan and FP received £2780 for my PPI premium at least. CT have stated they told me a commission would be paid but that does not absolve them, nor does a commission of 10% mean they have not caused me to suffer either - that is far to high a fee to be paid and I would have got cheaper money going direct...

 

All secured loan people should ask for disclosure, lenders are seriously worried, insurers and brokers being gagged, why I wonder?

[andrew1]

Tha's very interesting Mark...I had a £13k loan with a £6k PPI but it was unsecured, does it make a difference when secured or unsecured?

 

However, asking the finance company what they paid for the insurance is something I hadn't thought of. As you say, they are charging interest on the whole premium and if that's been compromised by a lesser amount having been disbursed then that is...erm? Fraud? Maybe not, but it's a bit like the DCA's buying a debt of £1000 for 10% its value and charging you interest at 12% on the £1000 - immoral if nothing else.

[frettful38]

I sent Ocean Finance a SAR to which they replied a few days ago. All they sent me were my original application form when I applied for my loan. They sent copies of the I.D we submitted, which were passport copies and driving licenses.

 

They also sent a copy of the screen notes relating to our account.

In the last paragraph they wrote.

 

"TO FACILITATE THE COMPLETION OF YOUR LOAN APPLICATION, THE ORIGINALS OF THE DOCUMENTS, WHICH YOU SENT TO US REGARDING THE LOAN PROCESS, WERE FORWARDED TO YOUR LENDER. THEIR DETAILS ARE AS FOLLOW.

 

BLEMAIN FINANCE, BRACKEN HOUSE, CHARLES ST, MANCHESTER, M1 7BD,

 

AS WE DO NOT HAVE ACCESS TO YOUR LOAN ACCOUNT ONCE YOUR APPLICATION HAS COMPLETED, WE ARE UNABLE TO PROVIDE ANY STATEMENT OF ACCOUNT AND WOULD NOT BE AWARE IF ANY MANUAL INTERVENTION OCCURRED."

I have already received my SAR back from Blemain Finance who are the lender who Ocean Finance brokered for us. I thought that in the least O/F should have sent me a copy of the Key Facts Illustration. This is quite a sorry excuse for a subject access reply, only a few pieces of documents.

 

In the SAR I received from Blemain Finance the Underwriting Sheet was in there. This is where I found out that BF had paid OF a secret commission. I have the Underwriting Sheet.

Maybe now I should put OF to strict proof if they have received any secret commission in arranging a loan for us with BF. Could you imagine if they wrote back and said they did not. Where would that put us?

 

I am not sure under which or what act you can ask for disclosure of commissions received or paid. I think it would be better if we could request this information using the law so they cannot fob us off as I assume they will otherwise.

 

Any thoughts anyone on what next to do? This topic is getting very interesting

[andrew1]

One thing you should ask them for part of your £10's worth is whether your loan has been securitised and if so, to who.

 

I've been reading up on some of these threads where supersleuth and a few others have mentioned that the loan companies 'sell' our accounts on to investors, search his/her name and you'll find some interesting threads, also look for the Carmen Butler report in securitisation threads because it appears that the loan company might not hold the title to the loan anymore but are the ones taking you to court..you can ask the company for strict proof as you call it that they own the loan still...this is getting very interesting as you say.. good luck, sounds like you're on top of it anyway..

[nevos]

Hi All,

 

GE had issued us with a repossession court date, default and solicitors letter all on the same day. We counterclaimed but, the hearing was de-listed, we went to the court and had it relisted, have a thread on this anyways, the idea was to try to slow down the repossession process for people who, given say an extra couple of months over the normal allotted time might, find some place to live or even find the money for the arrears.

 

Not wanting to go away from the topic, had read this thread and will send them an SAR asking for everything including the underwriting sheet etc. I will be able to add this to the counterclaim as to date, it is not fully particularised, if they fail to supply the information then, will ask the court to order it.

 

Good stuff keep up the good work!

[Mark Wilson]

Regarding commissions I don't think you need to quote an act.

 

I jsut sent Central Trust a Notice Before Action letter requesting a number of things including commission. They eventually disclosed but could not have been suspiciously more defensive if they wanted to be!!!I have now requested info from the insurer ( that FP are trying to gag!) and then it will be on with actions. No way has this trail of commissions left me "unaffected"!!

[nevos]

SAR sent, I kind of worded like this:

 

What we require apart from the usual all statements is, details of any commissions :-

 

1.Complete list of transactions and charges relating to our loan history with your organisation. Alternatively, a complete set of statements for that period will be acceptable.

 

2. Copy of any declared and or undeclared broker or agent commission fees paid in respect of arranging the loan or for any other purpose.

 

 

3. Please confirm whether or not the loan has been securitised.

 

4. Details of whom you may have passed our data to for any reason whatsoever.

 

Gone SD see what happens next

 

Have assumed the undwriter document is with the broker is this correct?