rossendales - unpaid Council Tax. **Now back with Council**

[sillygirl1]

Get onto the council as they need to know your wife is vulnerable, especially with children in the house. This guy needs a good short sharp shock.

 

Can you record calls on your phone, it will be good evidence against him.

 

Whatever you do though do not provoke him into saying illegal things, let him do the talking.

[recourse]

Hello all

 

Could really do with a point in the right direction with regards to these clowns.

 

My wife and I split up, I left for almost two years.....She had a difficult time and was (and still is) undergoing counselling, suffering from depression, and taking anti-depressants.

 

The financial mess that ensued meant the mortgage took priority above all others, including council tax, and for two years wasnt paid (at the time I didnt realise how bad it had got cos I wasnt there)

 

The nice people from rossendales started doing their thing. One threat after another, they levied on a car that wasnt hers, exorbitant fees etc etc

 

When we were reconciled, I approached the Council and asked them to take the debt back. They flatly refused.

 

I then had a nose around the internet and found some rules laid down by the Department for Constitutional Affairs (now dealt with by the Ministry of Justice) one of which stated that vulnerable people should not be approached, and, given the reasons behind my wife's illness, which revolved around an abusive father, I could understand why. She would not be able to cope with one of these monkeys banging on the door.

 

I then approached the council with this information....again, on deaf ears.

 

I tried negotiating with the bailiff, who wanted a ridiculous amount of money, which I clearly couldnt afford to pay.

 

Now a further letter has dropped through saying they are just attending to remove, whether we are here or not.

 

What has prompted this is a visit on a seperate matter from a High COurt Enforcement Officer. When I relayed the above story to her, she literally recoiled in horror, and said "Oh no, as soon as i am made aware of a vulnerable situation such as that, I walk away....its more than my job is worth"

 

Soooo......how on earth do I get people to listen? What is my best approach? I am not shying away from paying, but refuse to pay over £600 worth of bailiff fees, especially seeing as the levy was illegal

 

I genuinely fear for my wife's well-being should this escalate, and should she be exposed to their tactics

 

Thank you so much in advance

[ploddertom]

Sorry to be a pain but may I suggest you start a new thread for the HCEO business and we'll try and treat that as a separate matter altogether.

 

PT

[ploddertom]

For your Council Tax issues do you know any of the following:

1 - how many Liability Orders there are

2 - how much each one is for

3 - how much is still outstanding on each one

4 - the dates they were issued

5 - the periods of time they cover

6 - when they were passed over for enforcement

All the above should be obtained from the Council, do not believe any figures the Bailiff has given you. Whilst you were separated did your wife claim the Single person Discount? Have Rottendales ever been in your home or otherwise made a levy on any goods? What paperwork do you have at present from the Bailiff?

 

PT

[Thegreenpimpernel]

Hello.

 

From what you have said, it seems the maximum they can charge you is a total £42.50 in fees (assuming they have been twice).

 

The fact that there are two accounts is irrelevant, being collected at the same time they have to be amalgamated into one 'account' for the purpose of applying charges.

 

The rest of the bogus fees will be fictional 'van fees'. These are 'tied' to the levy. So if the levy was invalid so are the 'van fees' (otherwise known as 'attendance to remove' fees).

 

From now on, (unless the vulnerable status is recognized) your plan should be to batten down the hatches and avoid them until they go away. Then, after a series of baseless cowardly threats like "we'll apply to have you sent to prison" and "we'll be back with a removal crew and locksmith", "calling the police" "summoning the Kraken", they will pass it back to the council; who will be forced (by a court if necessary) to accept affordable payments.

 

Since you did not live there at the time, you are not jointly liable for the debt. But it might be worth hiding your car round the corner or in the garage just to avoid hassle.(unless it's on HP, in which case they can't touch it).

 

You could speed up the accounts return to the council by writing a brief letter to bailiffs advising that: you know your rights, and consequently you will not be allowing entry in any circumstances. Furthermore you aware that the maximum charges applicable in the absence of a valid levy will be £42.50.

 

BTW - They cannot force entry, but can walk through open door.

[recourse]

- yeah she claimed the discount

- they havent been in the home

- they levied on a car, which has since been scrapped, and in any case, didnt belong to her...she had borrowed it from me for a couple of days to ferry kids about

- paperwork? threats, threats and more threats.....the original levy was a long time ago, pushed through the door...she didnt sign them or send them off

 

Thank you, I will request all of that information from the Council

 

Forgive me, the HCEO point was only made because of her reaction to my wifes situation. I have no issue with them at all.....I'm just surprised that she knows the situation with regards to vulnerable people, to a point where she looked shocked...and yet Rossendales and my local Council just ignore it completely.

 

If I were to complain about her vulnerability being ignored, who would I go to? Rossendales? Council Ombudsman? MOJ?

 

thank you

[recourse]

Hello.

 

From what you have said, it seems the maximum they can charge you is a total £42.50 in fees (assuming they have been twice).

 

The fact that there are two accounts is irrelevant, being collected at the same time they have to be amalgamated into one 'account' for the purpose of applying charges.

 

The rest of the bogus fees will be fictional 'van fees'. These are 'tied' to the levy. So if the levy was invalid so are the 'van fees' (otherwise known as 'attendance to remove' fees).

 

From now on, (unless the vulnerable status is recognized) your plan should be to batten down the hatches and avoid them until they go away. Then, after a series of baseless cowardly threats like "we'll apply to have you sent to prison" and "we'll be back with a removal crew and locksmith", "calling the police" "summoning the Kraken", they will pass it back to the council; who will be forced (by a court if necessary) to accept affordable payments.

 

Since you did not live there at the time, you are not jointly liable for the debt. But it might be worth hiding your car round the corner or in the garage just to avoid hassle.(unless it's on HP, in which case they can't touch it).

 

You could speed up the accounts return to the council by writing a brief letter to bailiffs advising that: you know your rights, and consequently you will not be allowing entry in any circumstances. Furthermore you aware that the maximum charges applicable in the absence of a valid levy will be £42.50.

 

BTW - They cannot force entry, but can walk through open door.

 

Thank you

[Thegreenpimpernel]

1) How the heck did you guys exchange three posts while i was typing???????????? Must stop getting distracted.

 

2) Please name the HCEO, lets be fair and award her two gold stars and a tick.

[hallowitch]

a post by tomtubby

 

IMPORTANT...If you need to make a Complaint to the Local Authority then read here.....

It must be remembered that a bailiff enforcing a debt for council tax, National Non Domestic Rates (NNDR) or an unpaid

parking ticket

is working as a

agent/contractor

for the local authority.

 

In this, the local authority cannot simply abdicate responsibility for the actions of their agent/contractor as ultimately, it is the responsibility of the local authority to ensure that a levy is carried out in a lawful manner and that the fees charged by their agents are in accordance with statutory regulations.

 

Following a discussion with the Local Government

Ombudsman

's Office (LGO) they have advised that if you have a Compliant for the Council about their bailiff's then you MUST do the following:

 

.

 

You must ENSURE that you mark your letter to the local authority as a :

FORMAL COMPLAINT.

 

Your letter should be addressed to the

CHIEF EXECUTIVE

and should be

COPIED

to the

COMPLAINTS DEPARTMENT

( this will ensure that it is registered as a formal complaint).

 

It must be understood that under the 1974 Local Government Act the Local Government

Ombudsman

only has jurisdication to investigate a complaint if the matter had first been brought to the attention of the local authority and that they had been given the opportunity to respond.

 

If you are unsatisfied with your response from the local authority then you can take your complaint to the

Local Government

Ombudsman

but they will want to see that you have gone through the councils COMPLAINTS PROCEDURE first and that you have allowed the local authority a maximum period of 12 weeks to respond.

 

The Local Government Ombudsman's office will need to satisy themselves that you have made it CLEAR to the Local Authority that you are making a

FORMAL COMPLAINT.

 

.

 

[ploddertom]

- yeah she claimed the discount

- they havent been in the home

- they levied on a car, which has since been scrapped, and in any case, didnt belong to her...she had borrowed it from me for a couple of days to ferry kids about

- paperwork? threats, threats and more threats.....the original levy was a long time ago, pushed through the door...she didnt sign them or send them off

 

Thank you, I will request all of that information from the Council

 

Forgive me, the HCEO point was only made because of her reaction to my wifes situation. I have no issue with them at all.....I'm just surprised that she knows the situation with regards to vulnerable people, to a point where she looked shocked...and yet Rossendales and my local Council just ignore it completely.

 

If I were to complain about her vulnerability being ignored, who would I go to? Rossendales? Council Ombudsman? MOJ?

 

thank you

 

I'm being serious about the HCEO as you will be looking at large charges most of which can be successfully challenged.

 

For the vulnerability issue you need to write to both Bailiffs and Council outlining the position and also submitting evidence from a health professional - does she have a CPN for instance or just under the doctor. If the latter ten she should make an appointment and I'm not being flippant when I say you should go with her and say this is making her condition worse & could you please write a note to that effect. If you don't ask you don't get. You can initially write pending the evidence and that at least gives them prior warning.

 

PT

[hallowitch]

The nice people from rossendales started doing their thing. One threat after another, they levied on a car that wasnt hers, exorbitant fees etc etc

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?262730-Has-a-bailiff-quot-levied-quot-upon-a-car-that-is-NOT-owned-by-you-...-LOCAL-GOVERNMENT-OMBUDSMAN-S-Report-!!!!(1-Viewing)-nbsp

[RaeUK]

Hi recourse,

Just to underline what you know, what the HCEO knows, what advisors here know and - guess what? - what Rossendales know ...

 

Here is a LINK to the National Standards for Enforcement Agents 2002. This takes you to the page dealing with possible vulnerable status but do feel free to scroll around to see how the bailiff measures up ...

 

Rossendales are members of the Enforcement Services Association. Section 2 of their Code of Practice states : Members should comply with the provisions of the National Standards for Enforcement Agents.

 

Hope that helps.

Rae

[recourse]

hi all

 

update, and sorry if this now belongs in another thread

 

The bailiffs ignored all of my correspondence, but I also ignored theirs....result being a letter has dropped through the door this morning from the council demanding full payment of £1201.86 or suitable repayment proposals or they will apply for my wife's committal to prison.

 

Any ideas what kind of term is considered suitable? or more directly, how much I have to offer for them to accept? I can probably afford £100 per month at a real push...is this likely to be quick enough for them?

 

If a committal to prison drops through the door, my wife will likely go completely off the rails

 

Thank you once again

[wonkeydonkey]

Hi Recourse

 

Have no fear of the threat of "commital to prison" for that is indeed a long way from ever becoming a reality.

The advice from PT and Tomtubby regarding the steps you need to take are sound and you must put pen to paper and start a paper trail of your attempts to seek a resolve, do not rely on telephone calls, you need to have everything in black and white.

 

Telephone calls and any contact with Bailiffs are a no no especially with Bailiffs as they are famous to having selective hearing at best and usually suffer from memory loss as a norm if later questioned.

 

If you have trouble composing a letter to the Council or Bailiffs then ask here for help, there are many a skilled letter writer on this forum.

 

Meanwhile make payments that you find comfortably affordable and will have no difficulty sustaining direct to the Council by way of their online payment system this can be done weekly/monthly to suit your budget and as long as you do not fail to make the said payment on the same day/date every week/month there will be no grounds for any order for a "commital to prison" as you are showing you are NOT REFUSING to pay and no Court in the land will grant such an order unless the Council can prove you have REFUSED to pay.

 

Get things rolling NOW and remember to follow Tomtubby's tried and tested approaches to the Council and PT gives you questions that need answers as this will tell you exactly how much is owed to the Council and what are fictious Bailiffs fees, the latter can be dealt with seperately once we know the true breakdown.

 

 

WD

[kirsty1976]

I too am going through the same thing and am awaiting the imminent arrival of a bailiff on monday since posting on here I cannot say how grateful i am for the help received Hold in there and stand your ground my issues with the same Company are ongoing too and I'm getting no help from either my council or them...my Debt is now cleared today by my very kind mum but I can imagine what your wife would feel should she find out about this threat...I'm in pieces and I don't suffer from depression...It is a mental illness and therefore under the national Standards of Enforcement she is classed as a vulnerable person...these people need to learn communication skills and have sympathy for the debtors not everyone does this deliberately we all have bad times and it's support me need not threats, bullying and harrassment feel free to have a look at my thread see ifr that also gives you some ideas as some of the guys posted here in yours have given me some advice too

 

I hope you get this sorted as do i hop i get mine sorted

[Yellow160]

if its Rossendales i would question their charges for each visit and ask for a breakdown.. They are fantastic at making them up and not receiving instructions from the council..

[recourse]

I have been struggling financially for a number of years and always fall of our local council.

Partly because I'm with an aggressive mortgage lender (GE Money) who have a suspended possession order over my property.

 

They employ the wonderful people at Rossendales, , which seems to get worse with each passing year.

I have never let them into my home, and yet hand delivered letters drop through the door,

usually with "if you don't call me, I'll come back and break in" written in pen on the bottom of the letter.

 

I have met these people on my driveway and pointed out that my wife is suffering from depression

and has undergone counselling by a sexual abuse charity for problems from her childhood.

They rip up their letters and say "no more" but the harassment continues.

 

This year I have had payment plans pushed through my door that I never agreed to,

and requests for information under the law with threats of fines and prison attached,

which again I understand they are not allowed to do as they are not the creditor.

 

Today, finally, a letter dropped through the door from the council threatening prison.

My wife opened it and has disappeared to god knows where in the car and won't answer her phone and the kids are worried sick,

I've had enough.

 

I'm tired of the complete absolution of responsibility you get from the council at the illegal tactics used by these idiots in their name.

 

I want to put together a dossier of the way people have been treated by this fetid company and am interested in people's experiences.

But also would like clarity from anyone who may have had success in making a council accept that these things shouldn't be happening in their name?

I'm at the end of my tether with it and need to do something.

 

I owe £1800 and have offered to pay them £25 per week online.

I have also asked that a detachment of earnings order is not sought from my wife given that she works in a close quarters environment

in a pre-school with three other women and this would cause her considerable distress.

Is this likely to fall upon deaf ears too?

 

Many thanks for your help.

 

This website has proven to be a great support and very empowering in difficult times

[ploddertom]

It would appear from what you say that your wife may be classed as vulnerable under the National Standards for Enforcement Agents. Is it possible you can provide proof of her different conditions and if so you should forward copies to the Council asking they call off the Bailiffs - a seaprate copy should also be sent to Rossendales asking they in turn return the debt to the Council. Another avenue of approach is to ask your local Councillor(s) to intervene on your behalf.

[ploddertom]

How long ago did the Council obtain a Liability Order? Is it just for this year or for other periods of time?

[lookinforinfo]

Are you currently paying anything to the Council? Have they refused your offer of £25 per week.

 

I expect you know that you can pay the Council direct and that they cannot refuse your payments even if they are less than they want.

 

Please let us know when you manage to contact your wife-my thoughts are with you both.

[dx100uk]

for sake of history on advise already given

numerous old threads on the same issue have been merged.

 

dx

[recourse]

I did say it was an ongoing situation!!!

 

Well, they today accepted my offer of £25 per week over the phone.

 

They also, however, accused me of lying about the behaviour of the bailiffs!

 

The man clearly said

 

"I don't believe that bailiffs are breaking the law, and even if they are, your issue is with them, not us"

 

He also said he didn't believe that they added extra information in writing in their letters,

and maintained that the bailiff company are acting perfectly legally in requesting information

and threatening me with prison if I do not provide the information.

 

It's mind boggling that civil servants are allowed to foist such tactics on the general public and then bury their heads and pretend it isn't happening.

 

Thanks for the replies, it is much appreciated.

 

My wife returned eventually, in a distressed state, but it could have been much worse.

[tomtubby]

A great result and unfortunately, you have discovered at first hand the dreadful way in which local authorities are behaving.

 

It is also good of you to update the forum with the outcome.

 

Thank you.

[dx100uk]

hey well done

 

chin up

 

onwards!!

 

dx

[brassnecked]

Excellent