Disgusted with HSBC

[wanted99]

Can anyone tell me exactly where I stand with regard to dealing with calls from the HSBC credit card team? They phoned me yet again today to demand over £4k. I explained to them that my debt management company are dealing with this and I have signed the paperwork as such. The rep said that they flatly refused to deal with this 3rd party, would only speak to me, and then became really aggressive and rude. I ended up putting the phone down because Iwasn't sure how to deal with it.

 

Can I refuse to speak with reps on the phone and are there any stock phrases I can use to deflect their aggressive manner? I really don't want to stop answering my phone just in case it's HSBC.

 

I'm very tempted to answer their 'security questions' wrongly on purpose - just to see their reaction!!!

[pcah9]

"I will only communicate in writing"

"I will only communicate in writng"

JUST KEEP ON SAYING THAT LINE ONLY but personally i would not answer the phone.

There is a letter template to send them if you so wish telling them to stop phoning or else.

[babybear39]

They're breaching OFT guidlines by refusing to deal with your DMP:

 

Deceptive and/or unfair methods

2.7 Dealings with debtors are not to be deceitful and/or unfair.

2.8 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

a. sending demands for payment to an individual when it is uncertain that

they are the debtor in question, for example, threatening debt recovery

action to 'the occupier' or sending a payment demand to all people sharing

the same name/date of birth as a debtor in the hope that contact with the

correct debtor will be made.

b. disclosing debt details to an individual when it is uncertain that they are

the debtor in question, for example, disclosing details to 'the occupier' of

an address.

c. refusing to deal with appointed or authorised third parties, such

as Citizens Advice Bureaux, independent advice centres or money

advisers

d. contacting debtors directly and bypassing their appointed representatives

e. operating a policy, without reason, of refusing to negotiate with

debt management companies

 

Inform your DMP ASAP for them to deal with it and complain to Trading Standards and the OFT quoting breaches of OFT guidlines and the CPUTR 2008.

 

Send them the harassment by telephone letter and request their formal complaints procedure:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/37006-harassment-telephone-response-letter.html#post290644

 

Amend to suit, do not sign, print your name, send recorded and keep copies with each postal receipt.

[Guest forgottenone]

What they said ...

 

any stock phrases I can use to deflect their aggressive manner?

 

You want me to be seriously honest with you on that?

 

Just don't answer the phone.

 

I really don't want to stop answering my phone just in case it's HSBC.

 

You mean you want to speak to them? Just slightly confused.

 

Look, as you will read and may have done on CAG ... you will nowhere with these people on the phone. It is their job to be like this. I wouldn't waste precious air molecules speaking to them.

 

Only communicate in writing, send the template letters here, if you haven't already done it. If you don't answer them ... you remove just one of their holds over you. Because that is what it is - a 'hold'. Because they want you to answer, it will become a game, then they will phone dozens of times a day ... from witheld or non geographical numbers to confuse you ... the more you answer, the more they will do it.

 

So, why even answer them? Trading insults with them - they DO record calls, and it serves them to use anything you say when it suits them, but not the other way round ... and if you get into any sticky situations with them ... then they have you on a recording. So, in that respect, that is also something to be cautious of. They are wind up merchants, plain and simple. The more they turn your key, the more they will do it.

 

Don't let them.

[Guest forgottenone]

You may also use the Protection from Harassment laws if you wish to. Covers telecommunications has done for quite a while now. Another avenue is they are blocking other, more important calls to your phone, preventing you from using the service you pay for. Interfering with your telephone line for example.

 

These are just suggestions. The best defense is ... don't pick up the phone.

[Helios]

If you are on BT, choose to refuse is also very handy to deal with annoying phone calls from these muppets

 

typical behaviour of HSBC ignoring appointed 3rd party instead by contacting you directly, send them harassment letter

[Lady Python]

We got loads of harrassing calls from HSBC also. We invested in a telephone with answering machine which also monitors calls coming in. This lets us know who's phoning us so we can decide whether to answer or not.

 

The phone we've got is a BT Lyric 2500. All our friends and family say "Hi. It's so-and-so". Works a treat. It's very easy with this to guess that it's the HSBC or whoever else is harrassing you for money because after the "sorry can't take your call" message, the line usually goes dead and if you do a 1471 guaranteed it'll be number withheld.

 

Once they've wasted their time repeatedly phoning and getting only the answerphone, they'll give up, at least for a while.

 

We got one such call from HSBC on Sunday. For once I didn't let the answerphone pick up the call and as soon as I picked the phone up, the line went dead. Within about 2 minutes the phone rang again so I let the answerphone do it's work. A very foreign, very indistinct voice started gabbling. I could not understand what this person was saying except for his name but by the tone of his voice he was threatening something. His English was so poor and the line (obviously coming in from India or some such place) was so crackly, even listening to the recording several times neither my husband or myself were any the wiser.

 

As the old saying goes, ignore them and they get fed up and go away to harrass some other poor sod until they come back several weeks later to chance their luck again.

[Poolio]

I strongly recommend you fill in and send the telephone harrassment letter that is available on these forums.

 

Mercers were calling me 3-5 times per day for the past month. I started last week to tell them 'I will only communicate with you in writing'. Of course they protested but I ended up sending the letter and Hey Presto! The calls have stopped completely

[wanted99]

You're a fab lot. Cheers. When I said 'I don't want to stop answering the phone', I meant that I have no way of knowing who's calling before I answer - therefore, I may be ignoring a phone call that I actually want to receive. Anyway - I'll send the harrassment letter. My DM company have been fab and really supportive, but they say that HSBC are notorious for this kind of behaviour and our best bet is simply to wait for the debt to be passed on to a DCA, who, amazingly, are much easier to deal with!!!!!!

 

Just out of interest, has anyone refused to answer the security questions, or answered them incorrectly on purpose?

[Helios]

Eventually HSBC will pass it onto metropolitan which is their pet DCA, they just as worse

[excel1]

While your at it send them the doorstep harrassment letter and a CCA request they will get the point that they are now dealing with a CAG member!

[ScarletPimpernel]

Mendacity appears to be second nature to HSBC; after they confirmed to me in writing that they had removed my number from their system, I received a further 35 calls in 5 days.

 

The easiest way to deal with their calls, apart from screening them as described above, is to refuse to answer any security questions, and then either replace the receiver or use the 'broken record' technique described in my sticky thread.

 

Not only are they in breach of the OFT Guidance, they are also in breach of the Banking Code (and what a bunch of bankers they are!): as well as the general requirement to act fairly, these sections, under the heading 'Financial difficulties', are relevant:

 

14.1 We will be sympathetic and positive when we consider

any financial difficulties you may have. Our first step will be

to try to contact you to discuss the matter.

 

14.2 If you find yourself in financial difficulties, you should let

us know as soon as possible. We will do all we can to

help you to overcome your difficulties.

 

and

 

14.5 If you have debts with many creditors, a debt-counselling organisation may complete a Common Financial Statement (or an equivalent statement we accept) on your behalf, which we will accept as the basis for negotiations with you in drawing up a debt-management plan.

HSBC will be quick to say that the Banking Code is voluntary. However, the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 is quite clear on the subject of codes of practice, voluntary or otherwise:

 

5.—(1) A commercial practice is a misleading action if it satisfies the conditions in either paragraph (2) or paragraph (3).

(2) A commercial practice satisfies the conditions of this paragraph—

(a) if it contains false information and is therefore untruthful in relation to any of the matters in paragraph (4) or if it or its overall presentation in any way deceives or is likely to deceive the average consumer in relation to any of the matters in that paragraph, even if the information is factually correct; and

(b) it causes or is likely to cause the average consumer to take a transactional decision he would not have taken otherwise.

(3) A commercial practice satisfies the conditions of this paragraph if—

(a) it concerns any marketing of a product (including comparative advertising) which creates confusion with any products, trade marks, trade names or other distinguishing marks of a competitor; or

(b) it concerns any failure by a trader to comply with a commitment contained in a code of conduct which the trader has undertaken to comply with, if—

(i) the trader indicates in a commercial practice that he is bound by that code of conduct, and

(ii) the commitment is firm and capable of being verified and is not aspirational,

and it causes or is likely to cause the average consumer to take a transactional decision he would not have taken otherwise, taking account of its factual context and of all its features and circumstances.

 

My bold for ease of reference. The transactional decision here, of course, is whether or not to pay what they claim, when the average consumer might wish to query charges, ask for a CCA etc. It's also worth noting that when HSBC applied for their consumer credit licence they undertook to comply with another code - the OFT Guidance on Debt Collection, and they are quite clearly in breach of that too.

 

You should make a formal complaint to HSBC (expect waffly replies that don't address the actual points raised), and then escalate to both TS (asking them to take action under CPUTR) and FOS.

 

Eventually, HSBC will pass this to MCS. They are HSBC's in-house DCA (in fact, all their staff are HSBC employees); the difference is that whilst HSBC won't normally negotiate around anything other than the ull amount they claim, MCS will; it seems to be some sort of face-saving exercise. MCS are just as tiresome as any other DCA, however.

[pcah9]

You're a fab lot. Cheers. When I said 'I don't want to stop answering the phone', I meant that I have no way of knowing who's calling before I answer - therefore, I may be ignoring a phone call that I actually want to receive. Anyway - I'll send the harrassment letter. My DM company have been fab and really supportive, but they say that HSBC are notorious for this kind of behaviour and our best bet is simply to wait for the debt to be passed on to a DCA, who, amazingly, are much easier to deal with!!!!!!

 

Just out of interest, has anyone refused to answer the security questions, or answered them incorrectly on purpose?

Read my post in "how to annoy a dca...payback time"...that is how you answer security questions.

[42man]

You will find this interesting....

 

HSBC arm flouting 'anti-bullying' rules | This is Money

[42man]

You should not have to pay for 'chose to refuse'

 

 

Dear sir/madam

 

Further to the very harrassing and disturbing phone call from one of your representatives on (date) I wish to make a formal complaint.

 

Your representative said that they were not prepared to deal with XXXX who are my appointed advisor in dealing with these matters, they were also very rude and agressive.

 

As such this is in direct contravention of the OFT's guidelines on debt collection.

 

I will now request that you STOP making telephone calls to me as I am finding them incredibly harrassing and this is affecting me and my family. I am of the view that if you continue to telephone me you. Any calls you make to me will be regarded as harrassment and treated as such.

 

I am familiar with the terms of Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970, and the Protection from Harassment Act 1970 and I believe your harassment places you immediately in breach of these acts.

(send this letter by recorded delivery, if they continue to call you then, you must report them to the FOS or you could start a private prosecution against them)

Have a read of these too...

Channel 4 - News - 'Bank harassment' claim settled

Cancer patient sues the Halifax for harassment after 762 calls about loan - Times Online

[citizenB]

Thanks for those links 42man. There are one or two people I know who will find them useful.