woodya v black horse

[woodya]

hi/

sent a letter to black horse asking for my money back for ppi missold , stating that i did not know it was optional and that it was available elsewhere cheaper

they then sent the standard refusal letter back , i am going to ask for SARs onthe loan, can anybody help me with the second letter,legislation quotes etc , i want to really beef it up and look like i know what i am talking about ?

 

thanks

[adamski]

Have they sent you the credit agreement and demands and needs statement?

Edited August 7, 2008 by adamski

[woodya]

Have they sent you the credit agreement and demands and needs statement?

 

hi / they have only sent me the rejection letter stating that i had 10 days cool off period and could have cancelled then . i am applying for the SAR with the second letter back to them. i dont understand what a needs statement is ?

 

thanks for your help

[adamski]

Ok they may just send you statements within your S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) request in your SAR letter specifically aks for a credit agreement and a demands and needs statement signed by yourself as they are so automated they have not read your letter and presume that it is an unlawful charges case.

[woodya]

Ok they may just send you statements within your S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) request in your S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) letter specifically aks for a credit agreement and a demands and needs statement signed by yourself as they are so automated they have not read your letter and presume that it is an unlawful charges case.

hj/ just got the S A R , back does not contain credit agreement , it states on their internal complaint form that thay have not got it , is this in my favour? my next is to go to the FOS or would you send another letter? nowhere in this bundle does it reference PPI.what should i be looking for? i have no idea how much PPI i paid, please can you help.

[alanalana]

hello woodya,

 

hj/ just got the S A R , back does not contain credit agreement , it states on their internal complaint form that thay have not got it , is this in my favour? (most probably) my next is to go to the FOS or would you send another letter? nowhere in this bundle does it reference PPI.what should i be looking for? i have no idea how much PPI i paid, please can you help.

 

A S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) comes under the Data Protection Act and entitled the customer to obtain data any company holds on them. They can be selective in what they give you, and many would be none the wiser as to whether they have been given it all.

 

Section 77 of the CCA is a legal request for a true copy of your credit agreement, this also must include the terms and conditions, and a statement of the account.

Consumer Credit Act 1974 section 77 (1) (a) (b) © and 77 (2).

If you submit a request for the CCA under this section you will have to submit a fee of £1.00.

If a creditor fails to comply with subsection 1 they are not entitled to enforce the agreement and if the default continues for 1 month they are then committing an offence.

If they do no produce the cca within one month they commit an offence

Be aware this only applies to existing accounts and not accounts that have been closed.

The cca request with £1.00 should get you the CCA within 14 days, this will then let you see the information you need to take things further.

If you use this then they must produce the CCA within 14 days or the account can be put into dispute.

Hope this helps out

aa

 

 

[woodya]

hi / sent for ASAR , came back without credit agreement, sent for cca enclosed £1 no responce , i gave it to FOS they have replied that because BLACK HORSE were not a member of the GISC in 2002 they cannot take it on , FOS asked could i supply further info , but what else . other than where and when , BLACK HORSE also sent some internal paperwork saying they did not have the agreement to check, can anyone help seem to be at a dead end with this please

thanks

 

 

A S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) comes under the Data Protection Act and entitled the customer to obtain data any company holds on them. They can be selective in what they give you, and many would be none the wiser as to whether they have been given it all.

 

Section 77 of the CCA is a legal request for a true copy of your credit agreement, this also must include the terms and conditions, and a statement of the account.

 

Consumer Credit Act 1974 section 77 (1) (a) (b) © and 77 (2).

 

If you submit a request for the CCA under this section you will have to submit a fee of £1.00.

 

If a creditor fails to comply with subsection 1 they are not entitled to enforce the agreement and if the default continues for 1 month they are then committing an offence.

 

If they do no produce the cca within one month they commit an offence

 

Be aware this only applies to existing accounts and not accounts that have been closed.

 

The cca request with £1.00 should get you the CCA within 14 days, this will then let you see the information you need to take things further.

 

If you use this then they must produce the CCA within 14 days or the account can be put into dispute.

 

Hope this helps out

aa

 

 

[alanalana]

Hello woodya,

 

hi / sent for ASAR , came back without credit agreement, sent for cca enclosed £1 no responce , i gave it to FOS they have replied that because BLACK HORSE were not a member of the GISC in 2002 they cannot take it on , FOS asked could i supply further info , but what else . other than where and when , BLACK HORSE also sent some internal paperwork saying they did not have the agreement to check, can anyone help seem to be at a dead end with this please

thanks

 

Can you supply a bit more information please. I should have asked earlier to be sure you have a case.

 

1. Was this PPI with a Loan, Credit card?

 

2. What was the date of the agreement?

 

3. Is the Loan/Credit card still active? This will enable the correct section of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (CCA 1974) to be cited.

 

4. Did they keep the £1.00 fee? They should have complied as it is a legal requirement under the CCA 1974 and if they have no agreement as stated and kept the £1.00 then that, I believe, would be unlawful.

 

aa

[woodya]

Hello woodya,

 

 

 

Can you supply a bit more information please. I should have asked earlier to be sure you have a case.

 

1. Was this PPI with a Loan, Credit card?

 

2. What was the date of the agreement?

 

3. Is the Loan/Credit card still active? This will enable the correct section of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (CCA 1974) to be cited.

 

4. Did they keep the £1.00 fee? They should have complied as it is a legal requirement under the CCA 1974 and if they have no agreement as stated and kept the £1.00 then that, I believe, would be unlawful.

 

aa

hi

the ppi was with a loan , it was taken out 21/07/2008,

i have also paid the loan in full but have an existing loan with them ,they have not returned the postal order for £1 sent for the CCA, they seem really confident that they can get out of paying me back because of the fact they were not a member of the GISC it makes my blood boil knowing they have had my money and will do anything to stop me getting it back, please could you help

 

thanks

[woodya]

hi

the ppi was with a loan , it was taken out 21/07/2008,

i have also paid the loan in full but have an existing loan with them ,they have not returned the postal order for £1 sent for the CCA, they seem really confident that they can get out of paying me back because of the fact they were not a member of the GISC it makes my blood boil knowing they have had my money and will do anything to stop me getting it back, please could you help

 

thanks

 

hi , sorry the date the loan was taken out was 21/07/2002

 

thanks

[alanalana]

Hello Woodya,

 

As the loan is closed The CCA1974 will not be applicable for a request for a CCA with the £1.00. The SAR though would apply for all data held about you.

 

I would advise you now to write back a stongly worded letter demanding the repayment of your £1.00.

Then have a look at this link to cobble together a letter claiming non compliance with your SAR.....

Data Protection Act - Non-Compliance - Template Letters

 

I would also suggest that you inform them that a failure to provide the information and the £1.00 will result in a serious formal complaint to the Information Commissionser Office. Office of Fair Trading and the Financial Ombudsman Service.

 

My thread has examples of letters of complaint to these organisations with addresses etc.

 

Other more knowledgeable folks will also no doubt have further advice on this to offer you.

 

aa

[woodya]

Hello Woodya,

 

As the loan is closed The CCA1974 will not be applicable for a request for a CCA with the £1.00. The S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) though would apply for all data held about you.

 

I would advise you now to write back a stongly worded letter demanding the repayment of your £1.00.

Then have a look at this link to cobble together a letter claiming non compliance with your SAR.....

Data Protection Act - Non-Compliance - Template Letters

 

I would also suggest that you inform them that a failure to provide the information and the £1.00 will result in a serious formal complaint to the Information Commissionser Office. Office of Fair Trading and the Financial Ombudsman Service.

 

My thread has examples of letters of complaint to these organisations with addresses etc.

 

Other more knowledgeable folks will also no doubt have further advice on this to offer you.

 

hi/

what are the implications if they dont have the cca, can anybody help espiecally people who have been invovled with BLACK HORSE LTD

 

THANKS

[woodya]

Hello Woodya,

 

As the loan is closed The CCA1974 will not be applicable for a request for a CCA with the £1.00. The S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) though would apply for all data held about you.

 

I would advise you now to write back a stongly worded letter demanding the repayment of your £1.00.

Then have a look at this link to cobble together a letter claiming non compliance with your S.A.R - (Subject Access Request).....

Data Protection Act - Non-Compliance - Template Letters

 

I would also suggest that you inform them that a failure to provide the information and the £1.00 will result in a serious formal complaint to the Information Commissionser Office. Office of Fair Trading and the Financial Ombudsman Service.

 

My thread has examples of letters of complaint to these organisations with addresses etc.

 

Other more knowledgeable folks will also no doubt have further advice on this to offer you.

 

hi/

what are the implications if they dont have the cca, can anybody help espiecally people who have been invovled with BLACK HORSE LTD

 

THANKs

 

 

 

hi/ the black horse have now replied saying that they no longer have the agreement, does anybody know what i do next

 

thanks

[hellhasnofury]

Hello Woodya,

 

As the loan is closed The CCA1974 will not be applicable for a request for a CCA with the £1.00. The S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) though would apply for all data held about you.

 

I would advise you now to write back a stongly worded letter demanding the repayment of your £1.00.

Then have a look at this link to cobble together a letter claiming non compliance with your S.A.R - (Subject Access Request).....

Data Protection Act - Non-Compliance - Template Letters

 

I would also suggest that you inform them that a failure to provide the information and the £1.00 will result in a serious formal complaint to the Information Commissionser Office. Office of Fair Trading and the Financial Ombudsman Service.

 

My thread has examples of letters of complaint to these organisations with addresses etc.

 

Other more knowledgeable folks will also no doubt have further advice on this to offer you.

 

hi/

what are the implications if they dont have the cca, can anybody help espiecally people who have been invovled with BLACK HORSE LTD

 

THANKs

 

 

 

hi/ the black horse have now replied saying that they no longer have the agreement, does anybody know what i do next

 

thanks

 

Hello Woodya.

 

When was the loan settled the month and year please:-D I do believe they have to retain all data 6 years after the loan was settled, so if you took in out in 2002 and the loan ran for say 3yrs, that would take it to 2005 and therefore they have to retain data to 2011 under the data protection act and the money laundering regulations.

 

Even if they do not have the credit agreement, do you have enough information from the SAR to ask them to refund it back

Edited October 21, 2008 by hellhasnofury

[woodya]

 

Hello Woodya.

 

When was the loan settled the month and year please:-D I do believe they have to retain all data 6 years after the loan was settled, so if you took in out in 2002 and the loan ran for say 3yrs, that would take it to 2005 and therefore they have to retain data to 2011 under the data protection act and the money laundering regulations.

 

Even if they do not have the credit agreement, do you have enough information from the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) to ask them to refund it back

hi/

thanks for helping, there is nothing in the S A R that mentions ppi do you know what i should be looking for,, they have offered no proof that i was sold PPI fairley only to say that i had a cooling off period shortly after the loan was agreed, if they cannot produce the CCA can i go back to them and argue that they have no proof that i was informed about PPI.

 

THANKS

[woodya]

hi/

thanks for helping, there is nothing in the S A R that mentions ppi do you know what i should be looking for,, they have offered no proof that i was sold PPI fairley only to say that i had a cooling off period shortly after the loan was agreed, if they cannot produce the CCA can i go back to them and argue that they have no proof that i was informed about PPI.

 

THANKS

 

hi has anybody dealt with the FLA i was thinking of giving this to them , anybody thoughts much appreciated

 

thanks

[adamski]

Hi

Sorry I used to be on the PPi forum loads have a court case with Black Horse at the moment loads of other stuff personal and with creditors of my own I apologise for not coming back sooner.

 

IMHO no CCA no defence about PPI in other words how can they prove you asked or needed PPI in the first place they have no defence.

 

I got PPI refunded on an account dating back to 1997 that was unactive, also the statute of limitations states that the loan, debt exsists from the last payment on the account so IMHO you need to write to them a letter stating that as they cannot prove that you agreed to PPI you want it back, also that the statute of limatations is from last acknowledgement or payment of debt.

 

More importantly on what grounds are you reclaiming PPI?

[woodya]

hi ,

getting nowhere with FLA they have asked me to give them some information on how the black horse broke its codes of conduct in this complaint , i could do with some help on the details of what to write , black horse or the FLA have still not aknowledged that because they have lost the credit aggreement how can they say i agreed to ppi , any help would be much appreciated

 

thanks

 

ps

 

anybody with any advice please feel free to post

[woodya]

hi/ has anyone won against blackhorse, they seem to be hardcore, this is with the fla now , does anybody know how long they are supposed to keep the CCA for , they have lost mine and i think this is to my advantage , any thoughts

 

thanks

[alanalana]

Hello woodya,

 

I believe the CCA should be kept for at least 6 years after the last transaction on the account. All the records should be available to you from then.

 

Search the CAG and you should get all the legal info that applies

 

aa

[skeptic]

Extracts taken from the FLA Web site and reproduced for the purposes for criticism or review in accordance with the fair dealing exceptions provided by the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act

 

Who is FLA?

 

FLA is a trade association. Our members are required to follow our code of practice – the Lending Code. We record and monitor all the complaints we receive about our members.

 

Our members comprise banks, subsidiaries of banks and building societies, the finance arms of leading retailers and manufacturing companies, and a range of independent firms.

 

In 2007 FLA members did £94.5 billion of new business. £28.8 billion was provided to the business sector... The remaining £65.7 billion was provided to the consumer sector representing almost 30% of all unsecured lending in the UK in 2007.

 

What is the FLA conciliation procedure?

 

We will liaise between you and our member in order to resolve your complaint. We will ensure they respond to your concerns and monitor their compliance with the provisions of our Code.

 

Although we cannot award compensation or make a decision about your complaint, we will continue to work with you until a satisfactory conclusion is achieved or it is more relevant for your complaint to be considered by somebody else.

 

 

The FLA is not independent and cannot award compensation.

 

In skeptical world, we can't see how complaining to the FLA is worthwhile.

 

We think conciliation only benefits the wrongdoer and tends to waste the time, effort and resolve of the wronged.

 

We also think it put the wrongdoer on notice of the arguments that might be better present to a Court or the FOS.

 

In skeptical world, we note the use of the word monitor and how that is something different from enforce or regulate.

 

We also question how a complaint can be bought to a satisfactory conclusion, if the body hearing the complaint cannot award compensation or make a decision.

 

In skeptical world, we ask rhetorically, if you were a fox would you complain to the Master of the Hunt about the behaviour of his hounds?

Edited February 9, 2009 by skeptic