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CCA REQUEST TO MBNA my journey by Maz


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hiya lexis200 and all

 

thanks for all your latests posts,not been too well but fighting back now

 

ive managed to go through the SARS, its interesting reading i think we all should obtain the information as it tells you lots of snippets -

 

anyway back to business, interesting the sars information only refers to my APPLICATION for the mbna cards in question and the copy of the front and back that ive managed to scan partly on an earlier post is still no clearer within the sars info given to me, also NO TERMS OR CONDITIONS PAPERWORK either at the time of opening or current ones within the sars given to me.

 

Does this mean that they are in fact APPLICATIONS forms and not proper CREDIT CARD AGREEMENTS>? dont mean to shout guys just wanted to point out my references in block caps.

 

However, i think could i really be at the stage that i can really go back and say you have only supplied me with Application forms?

 

surely the SARS should have provided like lexis says more concrete evidence.

 

So not too well mentally today, pls confirm in simple terms to me "what does this actually mean to me now",

 

ta very much catch up laters ciao maz

Im happy to help with support and my own thoughts, but if I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action.:)

 

my new motto is,,,",Taking back control of your life and home - such peace is priceless"

 

This is all due to truecall device , have a serious peek at this you will be thankful like I am x laters angel :D

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This confirms they have nothing and as a result you could more than likely offer them a full and final settlemant based on your terms.

 

these would be the likes of.

 

1) your CRA file states settled.

2) any adverse data on your CRA is removed.

3) any remaining amount them or any other company Cannot and will not be chased for in the future.

4) all unfair charges as listed bellow will be removed from your account.

 

Admin charges, deafult charges, missed payment fees, over credit limit fees. also an idea would be beside each catagory of charges you do this

 

Admin charges of £160.00

Deafult charges of £200.00

etc

 

then offer them as little as possible towards the account remember you can always come up from it and they can always come down.

OFT debt collection guidance

 

Please remember the only stupid question is the one you dont ask so dont worry about asking the stupid questions.

 

Essex girl in pc world looking 4 curtains 4 her pc,the assistant says u dont need curtains 4 a computer!!Essex girl says,''HELLOOO!! i,ve got WINDOWS!!'.

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hiya Godmother, that is brill news, im just so nervous though about all this

 

and by the way iveonly just noticed congrats on your baby girl she must be a lovely bundle of joy to you, sorry told you im sometimes a bit mental tired.

 

so i now should add up the default charges from the list of paperwork supplied to me, check out my credit files ive already rec in the past couple of months

 

so very similar to a full and final settlement type of letter?

 

be back later to check maz

Im happy to help with support and my own thoughts, but if I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action.:)

 

my new motto is,,,",Taking back control of your life and home - such peace is priceless"

 

This is all due to truecall device , have a serious peek at this you will be thankful like I am x laters angel :D

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Maz.

 

I think what u need to do for the sake of a clear head is now give your self a few days break from this then go back to it later as it will all seem clearer then.

If you have any questions after that then shout me.

OFT debt collection guidance

 

Please remember the only stupid question is the one you dont ask so dont worry about asking the stupid questions.

 

Essex girl in pc world looking 4 curtains 4 her pc,the assistant says u dont need curtains 4 a computer!!Essex girl says,''HELLOOO!! i,ve got WINDOWS!!'.

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Yes you are so right Godmother

 

ive been ploughing through the sars info i cannot believe what they wrote,, im sure there is something against the oft guidelines, like

 

family and friends cannot help!

 

also been sent consolodation loan info, as if i would want further credit!!

 

just 2 examples.

 

 

I will take a break tomorrow now and come back later in the week. Thank you for your help.

 

ciao for now MAZ

Im happy to help with support and my own thoughts, but if I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action.:)

 

my new motto is,,,",Taking back control of your life and home - such peace is priceless"

 

This is all due to truecall device , have a serious peek at this you will be thankful like I am x laters angel :D

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YW Maz.

OFT debt collection guidance

 

Please remember the only stupid question is the one you dont ask so dont worry about asking the stupid questions.

 

Essex girl in pc world looking 4 curtains 4 her pc,the assistant says u dont need curtains 4 a computer!!Essex girl says,''HELLOOO!! i,ve got WINDOWS!!'.

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Just a little BUMP :shock:

 

How is it going?

 

Our house is almost returning to a little bit of normality without all day nuisance calls, 3 times a day from machines only now, played along with it once today and got put through to a human by which time I sounded like a machine, sorry no calls, sorry letter only, sorry waiting for written reply, sorry you are in breach of the Data Protection Act, sorry, sorry, bye bye :twisted:

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hiya AA99

 

i get the picture, sorry,,bye and sorry again lol

 

oh those days i had all that, now i can laugh but keep up the good fight,

 

yes its a bit of a bore after you have said it a few times,,,, but has to be done only piece of advice i would give is Do not Be Irate.....because they do record most of the what is said and i know because ive read my SARS

 

very interesting, but of course i was irate, they ignored me and still phoned me after ive told them not to.....i am much calmer now after very much therapy!

 

lol only way i can cope now and reflect back on it all

 

i need to do some kind of responce this week so am mulling at the moment and taking stock of the advice given here,

 

will update u - take care ciao for now laters MAZ

 

hope you are okay by the way, soz its late - i nearly forgot my manners -oops

  • Haha 1

Im happy to help with support and my own thoughts, but if I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action.:)

 

my new motto is,,,",Taking back control of your life and home - such peace is priceless"

 

This is all due to truecall device , have a serious peek at this you will be thankful like I am x laters angel :D

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hiya guys,,,

 

ive rung up Consumer Direct about the cca copies that i cant read andthey informed me that they DO need to be legible and clear. Which of course we all know from our own experiences they are NOT

 

therefore ive hunted as best as i can i cant seem to find an appropiate letter saying this simply to them, I just want a short sharp reply to them and making it very clear what they have provided does not allow me or my legal experts to understand the information -

 

what do you guys suggest?

 

Very sorry guys, from post 100 onwards now ive looked back, ive confused myself a bit, thanks for the help given so far, i think now its time for the letter but anyone can give me a template that i might be able to amend to enter my above thoughts in too - thannnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnkyoooooooooooooooooo

 

thank you, i await your help as usual i know

 

ciao for now laters MAZ;)

Edited by maz1964

Im happy to help with support and my own thoughts, but if I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action.:)

 

my new motto is,,,",Taking back control of your life and home - such peace is priceless"

 

This is all due to truecall device , have a serious peek at this you will be thankful like I am x laters angel :D

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Hi maz

 

This is the one I used recently, covering lack of prescribed terms and illegibility, which I got from here but have amended slightly to give them less wiggle room with a reply. If it's any use to you feel free to amend to suit.

 

Thank you for your recent letter sent to me, postmarked 16th September and received on the 19th September, the contents of which are noted.

 

I note that you have replied to my request by sending a copy of an Application form and your current terms and conditions (with the wrong address on them). I must inform you that this is not sufficient to comply with my request and that your company is still in default under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

The Act demands that I be supplied with a true copy of any properly executed credit agreement that exists in relation to the above account providing that a fee of £1.00 is paid. This fee was sent with my original letter, received by you on 27th August.

 

Sending an Application form is a breach of the Act and Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 as, apart from the information that the regulations provide that you may exclude, the copy must be a “true copy” of the agreement. For the avoidance of any doubt section 3(1) of the 1983 regulations shows that, subject to certain limited exceptions, any copy of an unexecuted agreement must be a ‘true copy’. This means that it must be identical to the agreement as presented or sent to the debtor for signature.

 

Section 3(2) of the same regulations states what may be excluded from copy documents: There may be omitted from any such copy- (a) any information included in an executed agreement, security instru*ment or other document relating to the debtor, hirer or surety or included for the use of the creditor or owner only which is not required to be included therein by the Act or any Regulations there under as to the form and content of the document of which it is a copy.

 

What you have sent me does not have the required inclusions, and is not in the correct form.

 

As you will know, under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, a judge is not permitted to make any enforcement order unless the creditor can provide a true signed copy of the original credit agreement. This means that unless you can produce such an agreement, this alleged debt is not enforceable in law, as shown below.

 

s127(3) provides that the court may not make an enforcement order unless a document containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor

If therefore any of the prescribed terms is missing, or incorrect, the agreement is not enforceable against the debtor, and the court is precluded from making an enforcement order.

 

The document sent purporting to be a credit agreement does not contain any of the prescribed terms as required by section 60(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) made under the authority of the “1974 Act” sets out what the prescribed terms are, I refer you to Schedule 6 Column 2 of SI 1983/1553 for the definition of what is required. I have not written them here for you as I’m sure you are well aware of them, suffice to say none of the terms are present in the document

 

I also am unable to read the information on one page of the Application form due to the utter illegibility of the copy. This in itself contravenes the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1557).

 

Regulation 2 states:

2 Legibility of notices and copy documents and wording of prescribed Forms

(1) The lettering in every notice in a Form prescribed by these Regulations and in every copy of an executed agreement, security instrument or other document referred to in the Act and delivered or sent to a debtor, hirer or surety under any provision of the Act shall, apart from any signature, be easily legible and of a colour which is readily distinguishable from the .

 

You had until the 11th September 2008 to provide me with the true copy I requested. After that date you entered into, and currently remain in, default of my request.

 

In addition, I draw your attention to the Office of Fair Trading’s guidance on debt collection which was issued July 2003 (updated December 2006), relating to debt collections and what the OFT considers unfair. I have enclosed an excerpt from page 5 of the guidance which states:

 

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

h. Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment

 

 

2.8 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

k. not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or

disputed debt.

 

Whilst the account remains in dispute (for clarity, the lack of a compliant credit agreement is a very clear dispute), under section 78(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 you may not enforce the agreement. This includes, but is not limited to, the following:

 

-You may not demand any payment on this account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

-You may not add any further interest or charges to this account.

-You may not pass this account to any third party.

-You may not register any information in respect of this account with any of the credit reference agencies. The requirement for consent to share data is a clear requirement of the Data Protection Act 1998. Any such attempts to share my data without my consent (given in the form of a signed credit agreement) will be met with a complaint to the Information Commissioners Office.

-You may not issue a default notice related to this account.

 

Please note that to register information with the credit reference agencies, or to issue a default notice, would also be in breach of Section 13.6 of The Banking Code, which stipulates that you can only register such information if the amount owed is not in dispute.

 

 

I look forward to your reply.

 

Yours sincerely (if you've started with a name, if it's a sir/madam job, use faithfully)

Lexis x

Time flies like an arrow...

Fruit flies like a banana.

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I am wondering if it is a good idea to inform them that the address is incorrect. Surely that alone would invalidate any document whether legible or not ?. Perhaps it would be an idea to pm either surfaceagentx20 or pt2357 and ask them to offer an opinion :)

 

There is a letter written by pt2357 in the link below. It deals with situation where an illegible document was produced. It could be amended to suit.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/112783-lloyds-tsb-mastercard-3.html#post1298307

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oops, good spot citizen b - that was particularly for my agreement where they sent a completely illegible application form, but included current t's and c's with an old address on them! The address part bore no relation to the form itself, and I thought I had removed all references to it.:oops:

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hiya guys

 

thanks lexis and citizenb

 

i think will be able to use that letter just tweak it a bit, definately the type for my cl debenhams thread too,

 

thanks to you both, my mind is a bit clearer - wait and see, im just improving with age...lol

 

take care my friends laters ciao maz

Im happy to help with support and my own thoughts, but if I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action.:)

 

my new motto is,,,",Taking back control of your life and home - such peace is priceless"

 

This is all due to truecall device , have a serious peek at this you will be thankful like I am x laters angel :D

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Hi Maz! Just looking at your thread to see your progress! I suppose i ought to get my letter that car advised me to write soon!Hope you get on alright and win this battle about MBNA CCA!

Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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Hi Maz i'm glad to see things are a little less hazy, you're doing well so keep going.

 

I don't believe in pointing out exactly what's wrong with docs. Creditors should already know and probably do, they just count on the likes of us not knowing!! ;)

I'm midway through the tunnel, but getting closer to the light.

 

 

 

Please be aware that i am not an expert in anything!

I may offer an opinion, but the final decision is yours.

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hiya all

 

thats why im mulling it all over, there is part of me that believes i would stand on better ground to keep responding with letters,

 

the other part is trying to stand up to them, and their bully antics by not doing anything

 

does that make sense?

 

because i had been paying them and until i requested the cca have stopped as per the account is in dispute - which is reasonable until they provide the correct paperwork in a legible manner

but if i just send the last letter clearly stating

 

only the below - (extract from a letter given to me before)

The document sent purporting to be a credit agreement does not contain any of the prescribed terms as required by section 60(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) made under the authority of the “1974 Act” sets out what the prescribed terms are, I refer you to Schedule 6 Column 2 of SI 1983/1553 for the definition of what is required. I have not written them here for you as I’m sure you are well aware of them, suffice to say none of the terms are present in the document

 

I also am unable to read the information on the two pages presented to me on the Application form due to the utter illegibility of the copies. This in itself contravenes the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1557). Nor evaluate whether any original agreement was ‘properly executed’.

 

 

Regulation 2 states:

2 Legibility of notices and copy documents and wording of prescribed Forms

(1) The lettering in every notice in a Form prescribed by these Regulations and in every copy of an executed agreement, security instrument or other document referred to in the Act and delivered or sent to a debtor, hirer or surety under any provision of the Act shall, apart from any signature, be easily legible and of a colour which is readily distinguishable from the .

 

You had until the xxxxx to provide me with the true copy I requested. After that date you entered into, and currently remain in, default of my request.

 

In addition, I draw your attention to the Office of Fair Trading’s guidance on debt collection which was issued July 2003 (updated December 2006), relating to debt collections and what the OFT considers unfair. I have enclosed an excerpt from page 5 of the guidance which states:

 

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

h. Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment

 

 

2.8 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

k. not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or

disputed debt.

 

Whilst the account remains in dispute (for clarity, the lack of a compliant credit agreement is a very clear dispute), under section 78(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 you may not enforce the agreement. This includes, but is not limited to, the following:

 

-You may not demand any payment on this account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

-You may not add any further interest or charges to this account.

-You may not pass this account to any third party.

-You may not register any information in respect of this account with any of the credit reference agencies. The requirement for consent to share data is a clear requirement of the Data Protection Act 1998. Any such attempts to share my data without my consent (given in the form of a signed credit agreement) will be met with a complaint to the Information Commissioners Office.

-You may not issue a default notice related to this account.

 

Please note that to register information with the credit reference agencies, or to issue a default notice, would also be in breach of Section 13.6 of The Banking Code, which stipulates that you can only register such information if the amount owed is not in dispute.

 

 

What I Require.

 

I require that you send me a clear and legible true copy of the executed agreement as required by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. If you are unable to supply the requested documentation because no such agreement is in existence I require written clarification as such.

 

I require that you comply with my request within 7 days of the date of this letter. I will not correspond any further with you until I either receive a copy of the requested documents as laid down in section 78(1) CCA 74 or clarification that such agreement doesn’t exist.

 

No other correspondence will be accepted, and should you commence telephone contact again, as previously written to you that all correspondence is to be in writing only this will be a clear indication to me that you have chosen to ignore my reasonable request. I will then report all harrassment details to the relevant authorities.

********************

 

I think i would be happier in just sending this final letter as it explains fully the reason of my not paying as the account is clearly in dispute.

 

AM I doing too much, you start this and then end up thinking is this then too much for me to handle, sorry not been well this week and my resolve is a little hazy

 

will be back later to your final comments

 

thanks maz

 

Im happy to help with support and my own thoughts, but if I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action.:)

 

my new motto is,,,",Taking back control of your life and home - such peace is priceless"

 

This is all due to truecall device , have a serious peek at this you will be thankful like I am x laters angel :D

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Maz, as you said on Lexis's thread, everyone has to do things in a way that suits them. Whilst i completely understand why it is not necessary to respond to every letter, i am someone that does, because it makes me feel better. It gives me some sort of control. I haven't got the guts for a fight in court, so will do what i can to ward the prospect off.

 

Take care :)

I'm midway through the tunnel, but getting closer to the light.

 

 

 

Please be aware that i am not an expert in anything!

I may offer an opinion, but the final decision is yours.

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Hi Maz

i understand your dilema!Like you i am never sure whether i stand on better ground contacting MBNA and in my case making small token repayments or whether it is best to completly ignore them particulary in view of their awful behaviour!Trouble is there is quite a lot of conflicting views from various people on various threads,It is especailly difficult if you are not completly sure if their cca is legal or enforceable,On one hand you feel that if it goes further and things dont go your way and cca proves enforceable or you have a judge who tends to side with crediters it might look better if you have shown on the other hand that you have tried to contact the bank but on other hand contacting them may encourage MBNA to get heavier! and prove that you accept their behaviour.So i agree with you never easy to know what to do!

Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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Hi

must jus pop in to comment.

I believe ignoring is not the best policy, I would not wish to be ignor-ant.

Any creditor legit or not will appreciate correspondence over silence, even when it makes em fume! (I've had to chase debts sometimes)

Communication keeps the world turning.

When I have tried ignoring creditors things jus seem to get worse :(

and when I've communicated it all feels better :) even if its not!!

Clear the head--get on paper

Cheers

 

H & H

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hiya all and especially HH - i do take on board your comments thanks

 

i have sent appropiate letters that are within the legal and reasonable requests the law affords us

 

i do feel better for now.

 

should it go to court i can show i was reasonable

 

anyway will update you when i get any next replies

 

keep happy ciao laters maz;)

Im happy to help with support and my own thoughts, but if I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action.:)

 

my new motto is,,,",Taking back control of your life and home - such peace is priceless"

 

This is all due to truecall device , have a serious peek at this you will be thankful like I am x laters angel :D

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i am new here, my first post infact.

 

i have a mastercard with lloyds and a loan with them. i sent two requests for cca a week ago. i am still waiting, but my loan was for over 25k, assume the law didnt cover this?

 

keep up the great work people.

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hello sexon

 

welcome to our madhouse, no seriously, im happy you dropped firstly onto my thread,

 

get to learn a bit around the forum and you will get good info

 

you then can start your own thread or threads one for the mastercard and the other for the loan you then can get info on each aspect you want answering

 

you do have to allow them the 12+2 days to send the info, im not sure about the loan aspect and also as it was over 25,000. im sure others will advise

 

take care and shout if you get stuck ciao for now maz

Im happy to help with support and my own thoughts, but if I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action.:)

 

my new motto is,,,",Taking back control of your life and home - such peace is priceless"

 

This is all due to truecall device , have a serious peek at this you will be thankful like I am x laters angel :D

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hiya lexis

 

sometimes i cant sleep you know how it is i finally get here on the pc after my dd has done her college work and i just drift on and read and get engrossed in so many threads, im thinking in a strange kind of way its making me more knowledgeable and less worried

 

i was up at 7

 

off to a volunteer meeting now so catch up laters ciao for now hope you are doing okay

 

ciao take care too MAZ:D

Im happy to help with support and my own thoughts, but if I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action.:)

 

my new motto is,,,",Taking back control of your life and home - such peace is priceless"

 

This is all due to truecall device , have a serious peek at this you will be thankful like I am x laters angel :D

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