Admin fee from rental company on top of ticket

[newacre]

i got a speeding ticket, in cornwall, while driving a rental car. and the cheeky b*****ds at enterprise have added a £35 admin charge. i rang the number, on the letter, to discuss it and she kept telling me that it was an admin charge. i said that i know what it's called, what's it for? she kept repeating this so, in the end, she gave me an email address.

 

i am going to email them and mention the The Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1994 and how this has impacted on similar practices with the banks and the recent ruling. has anyone had any joy with this or able to give me any useful information.

 

sorry if this is an FAQ but i searched and couldn't find anything.

 

thanks.

[Conniff]

You can't honestly expect them to have given your details to the authorities for free, there is bound to be some work involved and they are able to charge an admin fee for it.

[newacre]

...they are able to charge an admin fee for it.

 

yes they are but it is the amount that i question.

 

they have had to notify me, and the police that it was me, driving. so 2 letters which are generated by keying in car reg and date to their system. the letter is not even signed! one of the points made on the programmes about the banks making similar charges, for similar letters was that there was no manual intervention and that they could not, legally, charge for the setting up of the system or the database report etc. a panel of experts said that they could get the cost to no more than £4 or 5/ letter.

 

if it was a fiver or tenner then fine but this is a money spinner on top. as i understand it, this was the basis of the successful action by trading standards; not that it was unlawful but that the amount was excessive.

[Al27]

What do the T&C's say?

 

How have they taken the money?

 

I don't see how this is different from a bank charging you £35 to send you a letter that costs £1. I would imagine you could take them to small claims if you wanted about this possibly non-proportional penalty charge.

[newacre]

i haven't checked but the person i spoke to says that T&Cs say that they can take up to £50, which is no surprise. they wrote to me a told me that they had helped themselves to my bank account. i checked and they have.

 

thanks for affirming my complaint. this is my point, exactly. it is the amount. they can only charge what it cost them plus a reasonable profit and they would have to justify this, in court.

 

would still like to hear from anyone who has taken any sort of similar issue.

[Al27]

You cannot be held party to an unlawful clause in a set of T&Cs. Just because you read and signed it, doesn't make it binding.

 

Try adapting this letter and sending it off to them: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/12_12_06_bank_14day.pdf

[newacre]

once again, thanks and my point exactly. i claimed over 5 grand back from LloydsTSB for a friend, so am familiar with this sort of thing. first, i will complain to the guy behind the jump at the local branch. i hired it for 9 days and paid the £10/day insurance which brought it to a tidy £400. they should be able to find that £35, in there!

Edited August 7, 2008 by newacre

[crem]

i haven't checked but the person i spoke to says that T&Cs say that they can take up to £50, which is no surprise. they wrote to me a told me that they had helped themselves to my bank account. i checked and they have.

 

If they have taken money direct from your bank account, they must have done so under a Direct Debit mandate agreement. If so, you can inform your bank that this charge is incorrect and in dispute and demand they return the money to your account immediately.

 

Most banks try to "advise" you that you should take the matter up with the 3rd party company, but under the terms of DD mandates they must re-credit your account immediately and then THEY must take up the dispute with the recipient.

 

From there you are now in a better position to dispute the charge with the hire company.

Edited August 5, 2008 by crem
spelling

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

Has the rental co fee arisen as a result of a breach of contract with the rental company? Showing that it has will be crucial to your showing that it is a penalty.

[newacre]

what a cracking forum this is!

crem - good point. i will contact my bank and see if they can do that.

Bernie - i have looked through

Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999: A guide

A guide to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999

"A standard term is unfair if it creates a significant imbalance in the parties' rights and obligations under the contract, to the detriment of the consumer, contrary to the requirement of good faith."

 

it doesn't mention anything about breaches. i know that the banking charges challenge mentioned that and that the banks tried to say it was not a penalty but i don't think that it is an essential component. it talks about fairness and i am saying that it is unfair because something has arisen; they have an extra, unforeseeable, duty to perform and they are making an excessive charge in relation to it.

 

i have recovered the contract. on the front it does say £50 but inside it says "A reasonable charge for processing any fines...". that is what the law says and it doesn't mean that any amount they say is automatically reasonable. the above article also mentions 'core terms' being exempt. i take this to mean that you cannot agree a rental price for a car and then say that it is unfair but that this sort of add on(which may or may not happen) is subject to the test mentioned.

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

Fair enough, I was concerned that you were going down the route of unlawful penalties. That IMHO would be a dead end!

[newacre]

mine, too. the list of 'TERMS WHICH MAY BE REGARDED AS UNFAIR' in ' SCHEDULE 3' is said to be non-exhaustive. to me, that means that they are no more than examples and that the test of unfairness is a circular one and that you merely have to show that it is 'unfair' eg imblanced etc.

 

also, i don't think that they can escape their own statement that any such charge must be reasonable merely by quoting £50. i think that i can hold them to show that it is reasonable.

Edited August 6, 2008 by newacre

[newacre]

just asked the bank and they say that they cannot dispute it if it is in the terms and conditions. only if it was over the amount specified or if i was saying that it wasn't me or something.

 

i suppose that if it is a legal dispute then that's fair enough but it is infuriating when otherwise legitimate operators attempt slap a huge charge like this and you have to fight to get it back.

[lamma]

the bank is just showing solidarity with other companies doing the same [problem] as them. what else did you expect from them.

[Al27]

Banks are notoriously evasive on these issues. I've had cases where I was entitled to a refund due the 1974 Consumer Credit Act and it took a nice letter and then an aggressive one to make them pay up.

 

They just hope you'll give up and go away, hiding behind the 'terms and conditions' phrase as you've found out.

 

You need to start writing a letter to your bank.

[newacre]

i cannot really complain about the ticket, itself but it describes the road as a single carriageway when it was a dual carriageway. is this the sort of thing that nullifies otherwise bona fide tickets?

[crem]

just asked the bank and they say that they cannot dispute it if it is in the terms and conditions. only if it was over the amount specified or if i was saying that it wasn't me or something.

 

How do they know what is in the terms and conditions if you don't tell them?

 

You need only to advise them that the payment was taken taken in error and is therefore not agreed or valid. Under the DD guarantee it states:-

 

If an error is made by [the 3rd party] or your bank or building society, you are guaranteed a full and immediate refund from your branch of the amount paid.

 

Why did they ask you to explain the error or did you just volunteer the info? Either way, I would ring them again and be much less forthcoming as to the background to it. Simply state (very firmly) that the payment was taken in error and you are invoking the Direct Debit Guarantee which states you must receive a full and immediate refund.

[newacre]

good point. she said that if it was stated in the terms and conditions then there was no point as it would just 'bounce straight back'. i then went to the branch and they gave me the debit card disputes number. i have tried them on a previous occasion and they wouldn't do anything. they tell you it's a legal dispute, not an error. however, i agree with you, they should not be making these decisions.

Edited August 12, 2008 by newacre

[newacre]

just rang them and they said that they cannot do anything unless i have been charged for goods i did not receive or charged twice or something. she wouldn't budge, so it is up to me to ring enterprise and make sure that they earn their £35;).

[Al27]

You need to put the situation in writing to your bank.

 

I've been there. They hate having to pay back and will avoid doing so unless you press your case.

[newacre]

ok, will do. i rang enterprise, again but missed the call when the area manager rang me back. he is calling again later today.

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

just rang them and they said that they cannot do anything unless i have been charged for goods i did not receive or charged twice or something. she wouldn't budge, so it is up to me to ring enterprise and make sure that they earn their £35;).

 

This sounds like confusion between their CCA Joint and Several Liability (which I don't think applies here) and the direct debit guarantee which possibly does.

[newacre]

they said that all they could do was make a request to visa and that it wouldn't get anywhere unless the transaction was a complete error. but i will take the advice, on offer, and write to them.

[crem]

just rang them and they said that they cannot do anything unless i have been charged for goods i did not receive or charged twice or something. she wouldn't budge, so it is up to me to ring enterprise and make sure that they earn their £35;).

 

It has nothing to do with whether you have not received goods or charged twice. There has been AN ERROR made on your account either by the bank or the recipient. (The recipient in this case). And under the terms of the Direct Debit guarantee you must be given a FULL AND IMMEDIATE REFUND. It is not open for them to debate with you whether they agree with what the error was or if you're entitled to it.

 

Can these bank idiots not understand the simple terms of their own guarantees?

[Al27]

Can these bank idiots not understand the simple terms of their own guarantees?

 

It's the opposite - they know full well and hope you'll be one of the customers who'll give up. It's the same approach as private parking companies ironically - if you can fob off 50% of your customers then you're on to a winner.