Section 21 served by registered post...letter returned

[blue_eyes777]

to enter the property?

 

Hi guys, hope somebody can help.

I have new tenants moved in end of september seemed nice enough to begin with but are now becoming a leeeetle bit difficult.

for example, i have a hot tub in the conservatory for which the tenats agreed that if they used it they would be responsible for repairing it if it went wrong . they agreed to pay a second month deposit to provide for this. my letting agent said she would keep the conservatory locked until the deposit had been paid, but unbeknown to me the agent did unlock it for them. now the tenant has decided not to pay the deposit and now has the free run of the tub .

She has told my agent she is not using it but???

I wanted to leave it locked up but out of good will and faith, i left it unlocked.

Not nec a problem because I can go and lock the tub up BUT I am overseas tenant in Spain.

I would like to enter or my wife to in order to lock up tub and also pick up some elctrical leads left on the premises. i called them and the tenant made an arrangement for my sis to pick up leads this morning, but when my sis called, they did not come to the phone... the phone is now constanly engaged...

my question is...can I give written notice and then enter after knocking?ç

does it have to be a letter or can it be email - tenant is a probation officer.

[Ed999]

If the premises which have been let are in England and Wales, read this thread: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/landlords-tenants/74053-access-property-landlord.html

 

 

If the premises which have been let are in England and Wales, the rights of the parties are those which are set out in the written tenancy agreement.

 

The question of whether the tenant has the right to use the hot tub is one which can only be determined by examination of that written agreement. Consult a solicitor for advice.

 

The question of whether the landlord has a contractual right to enter the premises is also one which can only be determined from the actual terms and conditions in the tenancy agreement. Again, consult a solicitor.

 

 

As a matter of law, the landlord has given exclusive possession of the premises let by the tenancy agreement to the tenant. There is no implied right for the landlord to enter the premises which have been let.

 

You will want to consider carefully (a) the extent of the premises that are included in the letting, and (b) the express provisions as to access by the landlord to those premises - there can be NO implied right of access.

 

The statutory right of access to repair, under section 11 of the Housing Act 1988, does not apply in the situation as described by you.

 

If the tenancy agreement contains an express right of access by the landlord, you can only enter in accordance with the terms of the relevent provision in the agreement. That provision will set out (a) what period of notice must be given, e.g. 7 days or 21 days notice, and (b) in what form the notice must be given, e.g. by letter.

 

If the tenancy agreement is silent on the point, the ambiguity will normally be decided by the court in favour of the tenant.

 

It is important to have a professionally prepared letting agreement, which spells out in detail important points such as these.

 

There are various criminal offences which you might commit if you enter the premises without an invitation from the tenant, in breach of the provisions of the tenancy agreement.

 

 

 

Advice & opinions on this forum are offered informally, without any assumption of liability. Use your own judgment. Seek advice of a qualified and insured professional if you have any doubts.

[MrShed]

You are on shaky ground. I would advise to leave well enough alone, and just let them use the hot tub. I will answer in more detail later, but you are on shaky legal ground in at least 3 ways that I can see - making them responsible for certain repairs, preventing access to areas of the property that they have exclusive possession and also entry into the property.

[Joa]

criminal offences which you might commit if you enter the premises without an invitation from the tenant

Not necessarily an invitation but definitely a permission.

Email in my view is an acceptable form of communication, especially if it comes from an address which you have used to contact tenants or agents before.

And straighten this mess out with the hot tub, so you can relax and everyone know where they stand

 

But I must say this made me laugh:

 

does it have to be a letter or can it be email - tenant is a probation officer.

A bit random, eh? An officer of the law in a hot tub! Mind how you go blue eyes!

[Ed999]

Email in my view is an acceptable form of communication, especially if it comes from an address which you have used to contact tenants or agents before.

 

Oh dear, we're going to have to disagree on this point, Joa. Sorry.

 

In respect of giving a formal notice under the tenancy agreement, the landlord must comply with the terms of that agreement.

 

If the relevent clause in the agreement says the notice must be given by letter, as is often the case, then only a letter will suffice. Or if it says the notice must be given in writing, then only a written notice will suffice.

 

In both cases, an e-mail is not sufficient.

 

Say, for example, that the tenant has a computer fault, and never gets the e-mail at all. Then the notice is ineffective. This is why these agreements specify a written notice, not an electronic one.

[MrShed]

Agreed it depends on the wording. However, there is precedent in the form of a case law where it was agreed that email WAS acceptable - again, dependant on wording. The case escapes me now however!

[Joa]

Aw dear, it'll be a pleasure to have it out with you, Ed! And it seems that you are correct!

We of course have not seen the tenancy agreement in question but most of them do not refer to notices abot access at all. We therefore have to rely on the implied terms. The Landlord and Tenant Act 1985 s11(6) does not refer to a "formal notice" but it does talk about "notice in writing".

 

[Ed999]

The o/p needs to be aware that there is NO implied right of entry. If the tenancy agreement is silent on the point, the landlord CANNOT enter the property while the tenancy lasts.

 

The only exception would be the statutory one, under section 11 of the Landlord and Tenant Act 1985. But that ONLY applies to access to repair. The landlord CANNOT use section 11 to enter the premises for any other purpose.

 

If the tenant refuses entry, the landlord can only enter after he has obtained a court order: an injunction. To get that he would have to satisfy the court that section 11 applies. And in this case, the o/p has made it clear that he will not be able to rely on section 11.

 

The point about notice is therefore redundant. The landlord has no right of entry, so the question of notice doesn't arise.

 

The real issue here is whether the conservatory is part of the demised premises. Only if that room has been included in the letting does the landlord have a problem. But the o/p has been reticent on this point!

 

 

 

Advice & opinions on this forum are offered informally, without any assumption of liability. Use your own judgment. Seek advice of a qualified and insured professional if you have any doubts.

[blue_eyes777]

Hi!

 

I a an overseas landlord - I cameback to my prperty a few days ago to check on it.

 

I discoverered that the tenants had a cat living wit them which is not allowed according to the contract.

My insurance does not cover damage by pets either.

 

I explainedthis to the tenants but they didnot seem tocare much, suggesting that if the cat goes then so would they.

 

What can I do?

[Conniff]

How much damage can a cat do? Not a lot. You could always remove that condition from the tenancy agreement and let them get on with their lives.

[shywazz]

How often do you visit this property? if you live abroad and check only now and then, just pretend you didnt see the cat, hence go home knowing your property is fine and the rent is being paid on time....

The tenant didnt hide the fact there had the cat, hence wernt trying to hide it from you, i would presume you notified them of your intended visit, so if there wanted to there could have hid the cat and you wouldnt have known any wiser... be thankful you have a good tenant the cat would be last of your worries if the tenant was bad.... Also did you ask the tenant if there insurance covered any damaged caused by the cat..... or do you just not like cats.. or have you a hidden agender...

[demon_x_slash]

The clause that blanket forbids pets is considered by most on this forum, including myself, as an unfair contract term, as it interferes somewhat with the tenant's right to quiet enjoyment of the property. If the animal causes any damage apparent at the end of the tenancy, then deduct the relevant amount from their deposit (because, er, that's what it's there for) - if any major damage occurs (which is very unlikely; we're talking about a cat here, not a chew-mad puppy) then the tenants' insurance should cover it. I really don't see it being a problem.

 

If they wish to leave the property because of this situation, however, then they must abide by the proper notice periods and break clauses, as must you. You need to ask yourself if you wish to lose a tenant (who presumably is fine in all other respects and pays their rent on time) over such a small point.

[pebs]

If they are good clean tenants and pay on time I would allow them to keep it there.

I have a cat and she does not cause any damage to my home, she basically curls up in a ball and sleeps all day...... what harm can that do!

[blue_eyes777]

How much damage...well for starters, the cat has already deep scratches in the woodwork of the conservatory tying to get in, tears in the sofas that I agreed to keep in the place for the tenants. You may say that I shouldnt have left the sofas but they promised to take amazing care of them.

Also, my insurance doesnt cover the damage and the tenants lied about the cat actually. I only found out because they had shut it out prior to my visit.

[blue_eyes777]

hi guys.

 

Ipaid for an inventory to be carried out and the letting agent did it, failed to give me a copy and is now not getting back to me after repeated requests to provide it to me.

Trouble is I live in Spain and left without getting a copy, my fault I know but I was in a terrible hurry.

 

how can I compel the agent to give it to me and if she does not, what redress do I have against her.

Dont know if she is affiliated.

[pebs]

Oh well then I guess you have already made your mind up about it then and us cat lovers wont be able to persuade you to let them keep it!

[Sarah_Pussycat]

All you can really do is tell them they can't keep the cat, and start looking for new cat-less tenants - then deduct any damage caused by the cat from their deposit.

 

I can give you a similar story from a tenant's point of view!

 

When I moved into my last rented property, I had a secret cat. I didn't mention her as the flat had a "no pets" policy, and I really wanted the flat as it was in an ideal location for me. It worked fine for 3 years - I even acquired another cat, and always managed to hide them during inspections!

 

One day while I was at work the landlord sent an electrician round without giving me prior notice - he saw the cats and told the estate agents.

 

As soon as I found out they knew, I started looking for alternative accomodation - as like any cat lover my cats don't go anywhere without me!

 

It turned out fine in the end - they let me keep the cats, so long as I arranged for the carpets to be cleaned once I moved out, and make good any damage (as stated in my original contract anyway). When I eventually moved out a year later, I arranged for them to deduct the carpet cleaning from my deposit - and the only damage I had to pay for was caused more by my ex-boyfriend than the cats!

 

So the easiest thing for you to do is just let the cat stay (some landlords charge an extra "pet deposit" to cover any damage caused by tenants' pets - could this be an option?)

[demon_x_slash]

How much damage...well for starters, the cat has already deep scratches in the woodwork of the conservatory tying to get in, tears in the sofas that I agreed to keep in the place for the tenants. You may say that I shouldnt have left the sofas but they promised to take amazing care of them.

Also, my insurance doesnt cover the damage and the tenants lied about the cat actually. I only found out because they had shut it out prior to my visit.

 

It doesn't matter whether the tenants 'lied about the cat' or not, or whether your insurance covers it - any damage comes out of their deposit at the end of the tenancy. That's what the deposit is for.

[Aequitas]

I have to query the idea that a prohibition on keeping pets would be an unfair term. Whilst acknowledging that the list of terms that may be regarded as unfair as set out in Schedule 2 to the Regulations is "indicative and non-exhaustive", I cannot see which of them would apply.

 

A breach of a covenant for quiet enjoyment cannot arise simply by reason of a provision in a tenancy agreement. A breach requires some act (and some would argue omission) on the part of the landlord that disturbs the tenant's enjoyment of the premises.

[londonblue]

When we started renting our current property, we asked permission to keep a pet, and were granted it, on the proviso that we commercially clean the property upon leaving, and no doubt pay for any damage to the property itself (it was unfurnished so most damage would have been to our own goods)

 

An agitated cat (particularly if it's an indoor one) can do a number of things, actually. Male cats may spray urine, both sexes may defecate if they are ill and can't get outside or use their tray. Hence the clause on professional cleaning/fumigation at end of term.

 

Having said that, there's no reason why you as the landlord can't either turn a blind eye, change the clause, or evict them. You've a right to do any of those - it's your property.

 

Eviction would seem a bit harsh if there's no evidence of the cat causing a problem, but that's up to you, as it does break a clause in the initial contract, and it's not unreasonable for a landlord not to want animals in their property.

[21stcentury]

I have a few questions first,

 

Is the property managed by the agent?

If so tell them you are taking the property off their books if they dont supply it.

 

If the property is managed by yourself?

Its likely that the letting agent wont do anything, so I would write to the tenant advising that you have left your inventory in the UK and you are overseas and require it fo rinsurance purposes, and would they be so kind to send you a copy.

 

You will find that if oyu are on talking terms with the tenant they will help you out.

 

Also on the letter ask them if they are happy in the property and if their are any problems just to let you know give them your email address. This makes them feel more comfortable.

[21stcentury]

I would write to the tenants stating that they have breached the terms of the conditions but you are willing to overlook it if they give you a personal guarantee to bring the property back to the original condition and will put that in w riting.

[Monty2007]

Hi Landlord

 

What is your view/position with respect to rabbits?

 

PS; House-trained ones? give it to me straight, I won't bite!

[21stcentury]

The answer would by the same if you agree to carry out all repairs for damage caused - possibly offer the landlord a bigger deposit as a gesture of goodwill.

 

The second option always does it for me as they are willing to put their money where their mouth is.

[Monty2007]

How much extra deposit are we talking about (for a rabbit)? I would hope this would be lower than for a cat (or dog).