Stevie T v Barclays ***VICTORY ***

[icarusdragon]

watching with great interest!!

about to start tallying up the amount barclays owe me for the last six years then may go for all the cards i closed over the last year to try and recoup all those years of being hammered.

2007 looks a good year for every one:) GOOD LUCK ALL

[Stevie T]

Right, been too busy by half! Back now and needing help again!

 

They've given me a revised offer, but we're still a few bob short and they're disputing the interest I am claiming. The write:

 

Dear Mr Thomas,

 

Thank you for your fax and your counter-offer of £****.00. While I appreciate you entering into negotiations with us, I am sorry that it is proving so difficult to reach an amicable agreement.

 

In respect of the missed disclosure date, Barclays have been attempting to enter into settlement negotiations with you in that period, and the court are obliged to issue an Unless Order before they can strike us out for non-compliance.

 

[They disagree with my assesement of the charges:]

While we are eager to settle with you for your claim, as discussed previously, our records show that your charges were only £****.00 and not the £****.00 quoted by you. Ignoring this slight discrepancy, you have also claimed 3 different types of interest. The interest we charged on your account for going overdrawn is not a charge but a higher rate of interest and so as far as we are concerned not recoverable, considering we are paying you the 8% judgment rate. Our offer of £****.57 is not unreasonable, and I am sorry you feel you have to reject it and attend court in January.

 

If the discrepancy was not so large already between the amount we charged you - £****.00 and the offer of £****.57 which is over £1,000 more then you were originally charged then we may have been able to negotiate a further ex-gratia payment, but at the moment I cannot justify any increase in the offer. I am sure that you can appreciate that even if the charges are deemed to be penalties, which we do not believe they will be, the court are likely to reduce the amount we charged you by the difference i.e. if it is deemed to be say £15.00 each charge of say £25 will be reduced by £10.00. This would mean a reduction in your settlement offer; this is due to the fact that banks are entitled to charge customers for going overdrawn or late payments etc.

 

[The £1000 figure above include over £600 interest at 8% which they're not disputing. We're fighting over £400 here, not £1000!]

 

I hope you will be willing to settle with us without dragging this out any further then necessary and incurring further costs and time.

 

My proposed reply:

 

 

Dear Ms F,

 

Thank you for your email. As previously discussed, I believe the totality of my claim to be valid and that, should this matter go to court, that the court will find in my favour.

 

To clarify my claim for interest, I am not claiming interest for having gone overdrawn. Rather, I have claimed a portion of overdraft interest, in relation to the interest on the penalty charges. For example, if I were to go over my overdraft limit by £5, I am happy to pay interest on this. If Barclays charge me £30 for going over my overdraft limit by £5, I will then be charged interest on this £30. I am claiming for this interest, i.e. on the £30 but not the £5. If a judge decides that the £30 is an unlawful penalty charge then by definition it is unlawful to charge interest on it. In addition, I am claiming the statutory 8% on these interest charges.

 

As the level of charges now far exceeds that of my overdraft, the entirety of Barclay's interest charges on my account per month are the direct result of the charges applied to my account and therefore I am reclaiming them. Indeed, I could also be claiming for the interest Barclays would have been paying me for being in credit had the charges not been applied.

 

I will be happy to discuss the legality of charges in court in January. Nevertheless, I remain willing to settle at this stage, if settlement is made in full, that is £**** as of today.

 

I look forward to hearing from you.

 

Any comments welcome! Am trying to be clear with them. Happy to see them in court if that's what they really want. It would be great for quick advice so I can respond to Barclays fast, cos they replied to me in 30 minsd today!

 

You're all marvellous!

 

Stevex

[caro]

In respect of the missed disclosure date, Barclays have been attempting to enter into settlement negotiations with you in that period, Have they?and the court are obliged to issue an Unless Order before they can strike us out for non-compliance. Have you checked this with the court? Don't take their word on it.

 

[They disagree with my assesement of the charges:]

While we are eager to settle with you for your claim, as discussed previously, our records show that your charges were only £****.00 and not the £****.00 quoted by you. Ignoring this slight discrepancy, you have also claimed 3 different types of interest. The interest we charged on your account for going overdrawn is not a charge but a higher rate of interest and so as far as we are concerned not recoverable, considering we are paying you the 8% judgment rate. Our offer of £****.57 is not unreasonable, and I am sorry you feel you have to reject it and attend court in January.

 

If the discrepancy was not so large already between the amount we charged you - £****.00 and the offer of £****.57 which is over £1,000 more then you were originally charged then we may have been able to negotiate a further ex-gratia payment, but at the moment I cannot justify any increase in the offer. I am sure that you can appreciate that even if the charges are deemed to be penalties, which we do not believe they will be, the court are likely to reduce the amount we charged you by the difference i.e. if it is deemed to be say £15.00 each charge of say £25 will be reduced by £10.00. This would mean a reduction in your settlement offer; this is due to the fact that banks are entitled to charge customers for going overdrawn or late payments etc. Rubbish. If this was done you should appeal. If a charge is unfair, it is not at the courts discretion to decide what is fair.

 

[The £1000 figure above include over £600 interest at 8% which they're not disputing. We're fighting over £400 here, not £1000!]

 

I hope you will be willing to settle with us without dragging this out any further then necessary and incurring further costs and time.Depends if they cough up.

 

My proposed reply:

 

 

Dear Ms F,

 

Thank you for your email. As previously discussed, I believe the totality of my claim to be valid and that, should this matter go to court, that the court will find in my favour. "that" only needs to be in once.

 

To clarify my claim for interest, I am not claiming all interest for having gone overdrawn. Rather, I have claimed the proportion of overdraft interest relating on the penalty charges. For example, if I were to go over my overdraft limit by £5, I am willing to pay interest on this. If Barclays charge me £30 for going over my overdraft limit by £5, I will then be charged interest on this £30. I am claiming for this interest, i.e. on the £30 but not the £5. If a judge decides that the £30 is an unlawful penalty charge then by definition it is unlawful to charge interest on it. In addition, I am claiming the statutory 8% on these interest charges as I was deprived of the use of this money.

 

As the level of charges now far exceeds my overdraft, the entirety of Barclays interest charges on my account each month are the direct result of the charges applied and therefore I am reclaiming the interest in its entirety for the months that this applies. Indeed, I could also be claiming for the interest Barclays would have been paying me for being in credit had the charges not been applied.

 

I will be happy to discuss the legality of charges in court in January. Nevertheless, I remain willing to settle at this stage, if settlement is made in full, that is £**** as of today.

 

I look forward to hearing from you.

 

Any comments welcome! Am trying to be clear with them. Happy to see them in court if that's what they really want. It would be great for quick advice so I can respond to Barclays fast, cos they replied to me in 30 minsd today!

 

You're all marvellous!

 

Stevex

 

Comment and changes in red. How about offering to email your spreadsheet so that they can see how your figures were calculated. Have you actually contact the court yourself? Have you yet received their bundle? What have the court said about you not receiving it on time? Have you got the courts advice on how to proceed as you said you would in your letter. I think their letter could be classed as intimidating which is not acceptable. Maybe the judge should be made aware of this.

 

Don't believe everything the bank tell you. They tell you the charges are lawful and that's not true for a start.

[Stevie T]

Caro,

 

You're brilliant. Hope you got some sleep! I've sent them the email with your suggestions. The court weren't fussed about getting their bundle late, cos its still ages till the court date, 16 Jan. But I will talk to them again.

 

It does seem to me that they're taking an increasingly un-concilliatory tone with me, but I won't be bullied and at some stage they'll realise that I really am happy to have my day in court - if only they'd give us the opportunity!

 

Cheers

 

Steve

[CrispDust]

caro - GO TO BED!

[caro]

I was up all night worrying about Stevie. How could I sleep.lol Believe that and you believe anything.

 

I'm afraid I'm just a dreadful insomniac.

 

And Stevie, take the credit yourself as I only tweaked the odd word. It's your work.

[The_Badger]

Caro, Stevie just read the thread through - sounds like Barclays can be a bit crap and try to wriggle out anyway possible - glad you have their slimy carcase under a pitch fork - so to speak!

 

About to file my court claim tommorrow against barclays - any advice with hindsight?

 

Will set up my own thread for how its going (don't want to hijack - just thought I'd ask).

 

Cheers

[caro]

Badger, I don't really have experience of claiming against Barclays, but I would just say make sure that you follow the step by step instructions to the letter. Make sure you understand why the charges are unlawful, read everything, follow the examples in the bank templates library, read the section of the Acts that are in the statutes library that you should be mentioning in your particulars of claim, take your time and get it right.

 

There is no urgency as the case won't be settled overnight, and a day or two making sure you get your claim right now could save weeks or months trying to put it right later.

 

And as you say, start your own thread. Good luck Stevie and Badger.

[Stevie T]

Hello all,

 

Right, I've been offline for a bit because a) I've had too much work to do and b) yes, Barclays are beginning to wear me down a wee bit. I'm now 8 months in to this, and it's over a month since I optimistically and oh-so prematurely got my thread title changed - perhaps it's time to change it back to something less headline grabbing? (Suggestions welcome!)

 

Anyway, thanks for your thoughts and comments - cos you're all right and I just need to crack on with this now and your comments give me confidence renewed confidence.

 

And so, to an update...on another post

[Stevie T]

So, Ms F followed up my response by telephone but maintained that she wasn't able to increase the offer. I asked to speak to someone more senior (who might be able to break the impasse), but she wasn't keen on that idea and I didn't get anywhere, so we parted on a cheery 'well that's that then' - having both stated our positions [again].

 

I didn't expect to hear from them again until after Christmas. Yesterday I got another email

 

"I was just wondering if you have had anymore thought about whether you would like to accept the offer of £^^^^,^^. I know we have both put our positions forward but I need to know whether you are considering the offer as I will need to appoint counsel as soon as possible if you intend to take this further.

 

Obviously we are still willing to settle with you and avoid court if at all possible, but if you are not interested in the offer I will be able to treat it as rejected so that any subsequent reduction in what is recoverable may be offered without any references back to my offer of 22 November 2006.'

 

- as if there will be a 'subsequent reduction in the offer'!

- I like the fact they want to avoid the cost of appointing a counsel! I wonder if they've ever got to that stage yet?

 

So, tonight I went through all my statements again, and checked my basic figure, which is correct and not £175 less as they have suggested (back in post of 28/11). This puts my mind at rest that I'm not jeopardising my claim with innacurracy.

 

And I haven't yet written to the court about the fact I've not received a Barclays bundle, so I propose two letters to go tomorrow, comments and thoughts greatly appreciated:

 

TO THE COURT

Case of me against the toerags,

 

Dear Mr Justice blah,

In respect of the claim, above, I received a court order from yourself that both parties submit all documents on which we intend to rely in court by 25 November 2006. As of today, I have yet to receive a copy of the documents from the Defendant. I understand that these have been submitted to the court, but that this was done after the deadline imposed. The failure by Barclays to disclose this information to me severely hampers my ability to press my claim in court and, in a letter of 28 November they have admitted that they have missed the deadline for disclosure.

 

I respectfully suggest that Barlcays are acting in contempt of the court in this regard and request that their defence be struck out and victory awearded in full to the Claimant

 

I look forward to hearing from you, etc.

 

TO BARCLAYS

Thank you for your email of XXXX restating your offer of ££££.

 

I have been though my bank statements again and can confirm that my assesment of the penalty charges levied by Barlcays is correct and, as previously discussed, I remain willing to go through my statements step by step on the phone if that is what you wish! I maintain that my position regarding interest charged by Barclays on these penalty charges is also correct and I am happy for a judge to rule on this matter.

 

Accordingly, I am unwilling to accept your offer. As of today, with 8% statutory interest my claim stands at XXXX. I understand that you do want to go to court unnecessarily and do not wish to employ a counsel, so I would be happy to discuss settlement without liability to Barlcays at this figure as of today.

 

[For your information, I have also today written to the court regarding your failure to disclose the documents relating to your defence. I believe that you have shown contempt for the court in this regard and have requested that your defence be struck out. - not sure I even need to tell them this, but I want to bully them back a bit!]

 

I look forward to hearing from you once again.

 

That's it. Thoughts and comments welcome. Sorry, I've been away too long and now have verbal diahorrea (or something)

 

Cheers

 

Steve

[caro]

TO THE COURT

Case of me against the toerags,

 

Dear Mr Justice blah,

In respect of the claim, above, I received a court order from yourself that both parties submit all documents on which we intend to rely in court by 25 November 2006. As of today, I have yet to receive a copy of the documents from the Defendant. I understand that these have been submitted to the court, but that this was done after the deadline imposed. The failure by Barclays to disclose this information to me severely hampers my ability to press my claim in court, especially as I am a litigant in person, and, in a letter of 28 November they have admitted that they have missed the deadline for disclosure.

 

I respectfully suggest that Barlcays are acting in contempt of the court in this regard and request that their defence be struck out and victory awearded in full to the Claimant

 

I look forward to hearing from you, etc.

 

TO BARCLAYS

Thank you for your email of XXXX restating your offer of ££££.

 

I have been though my bank statements again and can confirm that my assesment of the penalty charges levied by Barlcays is correct and, as previously discussed, I remain willing to go through my statements step by step on the phone if that is what you wish! I maintain that my position regarding interest charged by Barclays on these penalty charges is also correct and I am happy for a judge to rule on this matter.

 

Accordingly, I am unwilling to accept your offer. As of today, with 8% statutory interest my claim stands at XXXX. I understand that you do not want to go to court unnecessarily and do not wish to employ a counsel, so I would be happy to discuss settlement without liability to Barlcays at this figure as of today.

 

[For your information, I have also today written to the court regarding your failure to disclose the documents relating to your defence. I believe that you have shown contempt for the court in this regard and have requested that your defence be struck out. - not sure I even need to tell them this, but I want to bully them back a bit!]

 

I look forward to hearing from you once again.

 

That's it. Thoughts and comments welcome. Sorry, I've been away too long and now have verbal diahorrea (or something),

Cheers

 

Steve

 

I've been through with my red pen but very little to change. Looks good to me, although I'm not sure I'd leave the "without liability" bit in, even though you are willing to accept on those terms.

 

Keep your chin up and have a good Christmas whether you have the money by then or not. You know you will have a prosperous new year whatever happens.

[Stevie T]

Ah, 'caro' Caro, your quick response is wonderful. Thanks! Hope you didn't think I'd given up?

 

Bookworm is so right - they use Christmas as a cheap tactic and I'm sure feeling it. Desperate to settle, but I know I'd regret it and wouldn't be able to face you lot! [Yes, I know, every case is different and nobody's judging anyone - but I'm financially stable enough thankfully (largely due to having a better credit facility with my girlfriend than my bank) to know that I have to hold out - as much as anything to be an example!] Another month isn't going to hurt!

 

 

S

[caro]

Exactly. You didn't expect to see this money ever again, so it's hard to say you can't manage without it. You would have had to if you had not been able to claim them back, so worth waiting a bit longer in my opinion.

 

Don't tell her I said so but Bookworm is right.

[Stevie T]

Well, yeah!

[Stevie T]

Dear everyone,

 

I am rather pleased to report that I seem to have rather more money in my account than I did yesterday...

 

Thank you to everyone for your support, kind words of encouragement and most importantly the HELP!

 

Off to: donate, pay my creditors, enjoy being debt free for the first time in 15 years, change bank account - oh, and reclaim the £120 they've taken whilst this has been ongoing!

 

I'll hang around to help when I can. This site makes such a massive difference to people's lives - well done to everyone!

 

Thank you! Lots of love and Happy Chirstmas!

 

Stevex

[Stevie T]

Caro,

 

I can't sned you a PM to ask you to change my thread title, cos you're full up!

 

S

[Thailand]

Woohoo! Congrats.

[caro]

Caro,

 

I can't sned you a PM to ask you to change my thread title, cos you're full up!

 

S

 

I am full up Steve. I'm just so emotional that it's all over for you. LOL Can I take it that you got every penny of interest they said they weren't going to pay?

 

Definitely a good Christmas in your household now. Don't forget the survey. Oh yes and CONGRATULATIONS!!

[dazpara]

Congrats. Steve i've been following your thread for a while. Another winner!!!!

Out of interest has anyone got a spreadsheet or something listing all the Barclays claims and their claim numbers that have been settled?

[caro]

Not a spreadsheet but do a search for Barclays in the Litigation Concluded section and those that have been reported to Admin and mods will all be there.