3 x PPI Claims Against Barclays / Barclaycard

[isidore]

I am currently doing some investigations into PPI claims prior to making 3 of our own against Barclays.

 

The OH has a long history with Barclays, having a long-standing bank account, 1 loan and 2 credit cards (1 x Barclaycard and 1 x Littlewoods Personal Finance - basically Barclaycard). On the bank account and 2 credit cards (yet to confirm loan), she had PPI and I would imagine that she probably agreed to all 3 (although whether they were signed for is not clear).

 

The point I am hoping to catch them on, is that on discovering she had these policies, I told her to cancel them as if she really wanted protection, she could get one cheaper elsewhere to cover them all. She was amazed at the idea that she could cover her finance with another company and had no idea this was possible.

 

It would suggest that when selling this insurance to her it was not made clear it wasn't compulsory and furthermore that alternative cover could be found elsewhere (or one of the two).

 

I note that the majority of successes I have found have been situation ones (i.e. sold it whilst ill, or previous conditions or self employed etc) and I have found very few (at least against BC) catching them on misselling on failure to advise. I am reading through a lot of the PPI forum to get further information from different people's experiences, but was wondering if I could get some advice up front....do you think this would be a strong enough argument to put up against them?

 

 

 

Will update with progress once I have started.

[alanalana]

hello T4FF

 

going to be a busy forum is this. I remember you from illegal bank charges forum.

 

this is to welcome you and hopefully give you a lead...

 

 

recent findings by competition commissioner may help you with your claim in that you were not advised the PPI could be obtained elsewhere..

 

here is the link and good luck .......

 

http://www.competition-commission.org.uk/press_rel/2008/june/pdf/18-08.pdf

 

hope this helps

 

aa

Edited July 30, 2008 by alanalana
new link

[isidore]

Ha!!! Yes was all over the bank charges forums. I have had a bit of withdrawal symptoms not being able to stick one up them for a while so have started on the missus' accounts. 3 bank charge claims in process and now on to the PPI!

 

Thanks for the link...but could you check it? Seems to be dead.

[adamski]

Hi

Sounds like you need to to do a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) request to see if your wife signed for the PPI or if it is optional on the credit agreement that is your best plan of atteck I think, or you could just request a refund on all the accounts and see what they say they may provide the credit agreements for free then if your wife signed them and it is clear on the agreement that it was optional they will happily do this if they do not then you need to SAR them.

Edited July 30, 2008 by adamski

[tatenda80]

Am also trying to pull the same stunt with these guys.About two weeks ago, got to know my girlfriend was in debt with Barclaycard(1900) and Littlewoods personal Finance(LPF) (900) which is part of Barclaycard.Checked out her statements and she has no clue what Payment Protection Plan is.Both credit cards had this PPI.So l sent two S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) to 1234 Pavillion in Northampton for Barclaycard and the LPF with the £10 postal orders.Recorded mail.Trying to get all the info before diving into the claims.Believe she was missold these ppi.Hope the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) will reveal the necessary info and amount to claim.

So go it your way mate and best wishes.

[Bog]

Be aware Barclaycard will not make it easy and will fob you off in the hope you will go away.

 

The first hurdle you will come up against is their reluctance to supply ALL of you SAR data.

 

See my thread here for my experiences...

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/payment-protection-insurance-ppi/126191-bog-barlcaycard.html

 

 

.

[alanalana]

Hello T4FF,

 

please try the link in post 2 on your thread I have renewed it hopefully it should work now and here it is again

 

http://www.competition-commission.org.uk/press_rel/2008/june/pdf/18-08.pdf

 

sorry about the bodged link:confused:

 

aa

[isidore]

Hi alana, all sorted thanks.

 

In response to posts above. Cheers Adamski, already done the whole SAR process as I've been doing her bank charges. I agree with Bog, they are a PAIN - experienced their delaying tactics when I did my Barclaycard last year, but they were even WORSE this time round. I literally had to spell it out for them what they had and hadn't sent me.

 

As for the SAR, I'm not sure if all the data I've received fulfills my requirements (or at least what Adamski suggests) as I don't see any application form within the documents. I have a huge amount of information - massive reams of printouts from their information system, personal details for each account. Both were taken out prior to 2002 so I'm a bit stuck with the 6 year rule.

 

Anyone know what I should be looking for? THere certainly isn't a copy of hte application form - at least I don't think so. To be honest, I only really concentrated on bank charges to start with, will have a good review this weekend.

 

Tatenada, would be interested to keep in touch to see how you get on so we can hopefully help each other. Sounds like you are doing exactly the same as me (LPF & Barclaycard). Good luck

 

Cheers for support so far guys, will keep you updated once I get the ball rolling.

[alanalana]

Hello T4FF,

 

if you have time have a look at posts 116 and 117 on my thread you can adjust to meet your own claims needs.....

 

alanalana PPI claim against RBS (looking for some help) please

 

this was for my second claim and I used the info in your post re the ICO and their preliminary findings.

 

This link shows what your CCA should contain....

 

Is My Agreement Enforceable - Useful

 

hope this helps

 

aa

[adamski]

Hi Mate

Do you have the credit agreement? the PPi should be on there if it is not then you have a good claim for a refund.

[isidore]

Thank AA, will have a good read through that.

 

Adamski, from the brief check I had when I was going through for bank charges, I don't seem to recall a CA.

 

One thing I'm curious of and I've never been able to find a direct answer for, can you request and will you receive a credit agreement for an account that is a) settled and b) outside of the 6 year time limit?

 

I'm guessing my next step if I don't have the CA, is to send a CCA request to BC for all 3 accounts? From my reading though, I still might not get a copy of the CA? As I said, will get some time this weekend and go through the mass of paperwork I've received from Barclays.

 

Adamski, just wanted to clarify what you are saying, might their be a strong possibility that her CA's don't have PPI mentioned on there? Is that what you mean by "the PPI should be on there"??

 

Cheers all

[alanalana]

Hello T4FF,

 

One thing I'm curious of and I've never been able to find a direct answer for, can you request and will you receive a credit agreement for an account that is a) settled and b) outside of the 6 year time limit?

 

I doubt you will get a CCA on a settled/closed account. This response from Rory one of the Site Team.

 

Quote:

I take it that this means that under section 77 subsection (3) (a) I cannot request the CCAs on Previous loans which were then refinanced ad infinitum?

Correct as the new agreement is the one that's important in terms of it's enforceability. Why do you wish to request them and how old are the previous loan agreements?

 

Rory then followed it up with this...

 

Well they wouldn't have to supply them under the Consumer Credit Act, but you could request them under a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) in which case they would have to supply them. They need to keep such documents for 5 years after closing the account, so they should still have them.

 

I believe this may in fact be 6 years.

 

 

I'm guessing my next step if I don't have the CA, is to send a CCA request to BC for all 3 accounts? From my reading though, I still might not get a copy of the CA? As I said, will get some time this weekend and go through the mass of paperwork I've received from Barclays.

 

I sent off asking for CCAs on refinanced accounts 5 in total sent £5.00 only received a copy of the current loan CCA. I did get information though going back to 1997 probably because of my complaint to the ICO about their failure to comply with the Data Protection Act 1998. (which reminds me they owe me £4.00)

 

aa

 

 

 

aa

[adamski]

in my opinion and experience if they have the credit agreement and you complain/ask for a refund they will send it to you as forms part of theri defence, if they don't have it they can't supply it so what defence do they have?

[alanalana]

Hello T4FF,

 

in my opinion and experience if they have the credit agreement and you complain/ask for a refund they will send it to you as forms part of theri defence, if they don't have it they can't supply it so what defence do they have?

 

I believe adamski has made a very valid point.

 

If you are aware there was PPI added without proper advice at the point of sale. You could have a good case.

 

aa

[adamski]

Hello T4FF,

 

 

 

I believe adamski has made a very valid point.

 

If you are aware there was PPI added without proper advice at the point of sale. You could have a good case.

 

aa

 

Thanks aa that means a lot mate!

 

No credit agreement no PPI!

[Bog]

Barclaycard will try anything (legal or illegal!)

 

In my case they sent a copy of the original application form with it clearly saying I did not want PPI, so now they are saying I agreed on the phone a year later! yet they can't provide proof (recordings, transcripts or letters!

 

WTF will they do next - forge documents!

[tonycee]

 

WTF will they do next - forge documents!

 

In a word yes, so dont be suprised.

 

I have documentary evidence to prove my reply.

 

My claim is currenty at court stage, and could well exceed £15k with the effects of their actions.

 

Forgive me if im reluctant to post any details at this stage.

[tinkerbell20]

Barclaycard will try anything (legal or illegal!)

 

In my case they sent a copy of the original application form with it clearly saying I did not want PPI, so now they are saying I agreed on the phone a year later! yet they can't provide proof (recordings, transcripts or letters!

 

WTF will they do next - forge documents!

 

 

Yup ........................:eek:

[Bog]

In a word yes, so dont be suprised.

 

I have documentary evidence to prove my reply.

 

My claim is currenty at court stage, and could well exceed £15k with the effects of their actions.

 

Forgive me if im reluctant to post any details at this stage.

 

Interesting, I take it they are defending?

 

I'm just about to embark on the court route.

[isidore]

in my opinion and experience if they have the credit agreement and you complain/ask for a refund they will send it to you as forms part of theri defence, if they don't have it they can't supply it so what defence do they have?

 

Despite it being a valid point, just wanted to clarify what's you're saying If I do send CCA request and they say they haven't got it, they haven't supplied it as part of my SAR or CCA requests so they then can't produce it in court, is that what you are saying??

 

Or are you assuming that if they don't supply it they just haven't got it?

 

If it's the latter, I wouldn't be surprised with the history I've had with Barclaycard that it wouldn't magically appear at some point in the future.

 

 

 

Something to prove my point...most people will be aware of the microfiche battle we all had 24 months ago, well Barclays just provided me with Bank Statements for her (settled two years ago) bank account going back to 1998!!!!! I have no faith in anything they say.

 

 

 

Anyway, I digress....also wanted to say up front, the I intend to send the mrs down the FOS route initially. I know this will slow things down loads, but our current circumstance dictates this.

[isidore]

Ok, have been doing some delving and have the following to report:

 

I cannot find anything resembling a credit agreement for bank account or either credit card. I guess then, that in order to reaffirm my claim, I should make a CCA request?

 

Interestingly, I have found a piece of information from a data feed from her bank account. It is called an "Initial Assessment of Lending" and relates to her overdraft. The entry of note on this page is called "Secured" by which the entry says NO. So in other words, she did not request her overdraft to be secured, yet she still paid overdraft protection. That should be the easiest of the lot. Shame it's only around £80 still...it all adds up!!!

 

 

 

I have however found a credit agreement for a £15k loan she took out with Barclays which also had PPI. The details of the loan (note, all figures rounded):

 

Amount of loan: £15,000

Total amount payable: £21,000

Monthly repayment: £250

 

Amount of insurance: £4,000

Total amount payable: £5,800

Monthly repayment: £70

 

Now I reckon this is going to be the 4th claim to make this thread 4 x PPI Claims against Barclays mods feel free to amend if you're passing by. What I need to clarify, the loan was taken out July 2003 and was settled March 2005, total of 19 payments made (my rough guess) and in March she was refunded £2,400 from her PPI. Now if they have refunded her that much, I am curious would the PPI have been front loaded? If this is the case and I am going to dispute this PPI, would that mean that I am looking at the difference (£5,800 - £2,400) which is £3,400. Am I right in my thinking / workings?

[isidore]

Still interested in your opinions on #20 & #21 when you get a chance, but in the meantime.....

 

I've started reading through alanalana's experience with RBS and have decided to follow up my S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) with Barclays as I need to ensure that I have covered off everything with regards to the 3 accounts I have been chasing - I want to ensure I make it clear I want contracts for all her accounts and that if they don't have them they need to tell me that in writing.

 

I have also decided to extend the SAR to include this barclayloan I've discovered. As the Data Protection Act says they must provide information on the subject, not on specific accounts, they have purposely ignored this account.

 

I have put together this letter this morning which my OH will be sending out later:

 

 

 

DATA PROTECTION ACT 1998 SUBJECT ACCESS REQUEST

 

Dear Sirs

 

 

I am in receipt of a third set of documents that you have supplied in response to my Data Protection Act information request dated [Date of SAR] however, I believe at present your disclosure of information held on all accounts I have held with you in still incomplete.

 

I have had a chance to fully review all documentation and believe that there are still documents missing. Firstly, I have discovered that within the information you have provided me for [LPF Account Number], [barclaycard Account Number] and [barclays Current Account Number] there is reference to a Barclayloan which I had overlooked. You have failed to supply me with any of the following:

 

• Full copies of all contracts which you believe exist or have existed between myself and your organization in relation to this loan, including true copies of any documents you hold in support of the same.
  
• A complete list of all transactions or statements relating to this loan including all details of payment protection insurance premiums applicable to this account.
  
• Copies of all documents which include any of my personal information in relation to this loan, including copies of any contracts or invoices, emails or computer records containing my personal information, or any records which pertain to this information.
  
• Full copies or transcripts of any correspondence in postal, email or any other format which you have entered into with any individual, organization or third party which contains my personal or financial information, or which pertains to me in relation to this loan.
  

In addition to this, you have not supplied any information for:

 

• Any contracts which you believe exist or have existed between myself and your organisation, including true copies of any documents you hold in support of the same for all accounts held with your organisation.
  
• All details of payment protection insurance applicable to all accounts held with your organisation.
  

 

If any of this information is unavailable, then I require written confirmation of this together with full details of your methods of erasure, disposal and destruction signed by an authorised officer of your company.

 

The data protection act clearly states that as data controller you are required to supply the data subject with all information you hold on all accounts held with your organisation. I am therefore disappointed that you have restricted your responses to as little information as possible resulting in me having to chase you again and again for further information. My initial SAR was sent to you on [Date of SAR] and is now 83 days overdue. This is simply not acceptable.

 

Please ensure that you supply me with the rest of this information in a timely manner and that you do not leave any information out of this response. I have refrained from taking action against you to enforce disclosure as I did believe you were assisting with my request however, my patience is wearing thin. Failure to respond to this fourth request in a fully comprehensive and satisfactory manner within 14 days, will result in the submission of a formal complaint to the Information Commissioners Office detailing your failure to comply with the Data Protection Act 1998.

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

 

 

 

T4FF's OH

[isidore]

One more thing I am wondering....I am interested in the fact that all 4 accounts were open around the same time and as a result all had PPI at the same time.

 

I'm wondering whether this is another stance I can take with regards to my claim - the fact that she was sold FOUR insurance policies that ran consecutively of each other whereas she could have taken out a policy to cover all four elsewhere at probably a fifth of the price....or even less!

 

This then leads me on to the question of whether I should make one claim for all four policies or do them seperately? If the fact she was sold all four consecutively holds any weight, then I'm inclined to claim for all four of them together.

 

Look forward to your responses

[alanalana]

Hello T4FF,

 

I cannot find anything resembling a credit agreement for bank account or either credit card. I guess then, that in order to reaffirm my claim, I should make a CCA request?

 

Interestingly, I have found a piece of information from a data feed from her bank account. It is called an "Initial Assessment of Lending" and relates to her overdraft. The entry of note on this page is called "Secured" by which the entry says NO. So in other words, she did not request her overdraft to be secured, yet she still paid overdraft protection. That should be the easiest of the lot. Shame it's only around £80 still...it all adds up!!!

 

The banks are not obliged to provide CCAs on closed/terminated or refinanced accounts only existing accounts if you send CCA request with the £1.00 fee they must respond within 14 days.

 

This link will give you a better picture.

PPI legal issues on Data Protection Act 1998 and CCA 1974

 

On the red text. Is this not the same as secured loan or unsecured loan i.e. PPI could be added to either.

 

 

Still interested in your opinions on #20 & #21 when you get a chance, but in the meantime.....

 

I've started reading through alanalana's experience with RBS and have decided to follow up my S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) with Barclays as I need to ensure that I have covered off everything with regards to the 3 accounts I have been chasing - I want to ensure I make it clear I want contracts for all her accounts and that if they don't have them they need to tell me that in writing.

 

I have also decided to extend the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) to include this barclayloan I've discovered. As the Data Protection Act says they must provide information on the subject, not on specific accounts, they have purposely ignored this account

 

I believe you have options with regard to single or multiple claim.

 

1. If you aim to go down the FOS route first then you could claim as a bundle. The FOS would then get a fuller picture on how you have been dealt with by the bank.

 

2. If you do not get all data as requested in your SAR (within the statutory 40 days) then a complaint to the Information Commissioners Office will give them the same picture of non compliance.

 

3. You can also complain to the FSA so they too get the picture (these are the people who have the power to impose fines for mis-selling). The more complaints they are aware of the better.

 

4. If you ultimately have to proceed to Court action then you can split your claims so you do not exceed the small claims figures.

 

One more thing I am wondering....I am interested in the fact that all 4 accounts were open around the same time and as a result all had PPI at the same time.

 

I'm wondering whether this is another stance I can take with regards to my claim - the fact that she was sold FOUR insurance policies that ran consecutively of each other whereas she could have taken out a policy to cover all four elsewhere at probably a fifth of the price....or even less!

 

This then leads me on to the question of whether I should make one claim for all four policies or do them seperately? If the fact she was sold all four consecutively holds any weight, then I'm inclined to claim for all four of them together.

 

IMO this could be very useful to mention if you end up submitting complaints.

 

Hope this helps.

 

aa

[deb4tlj]

Hello T4FF,

 

 

 

I believe adamski has made a very valid point.

 

If you are aware there was PPI added without proper advice at the point of sale. You could have a good case.

 

aa

 

Received this letter this morning where they admit just that but are still not going to refund my PPI.