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hsbc have cancelled my credit card without any warning?????


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Guest malissa7999

hi all,

 

i have a bank account with hsbc which i have stopped using and i currently owe it £57,..they sent me a final demand for this amount on the 21st july,..... it gives me 7 days to reply... today is only the 26th july, and i recieved a letter from hsbc dated the 23rd july telling me to return my credit card!..which i have never missed any payments on or defaulted with!!

 

can they do this?

 

they have never put in any of there letters or demands anything about my credit card.

 

plus the fact that they have given me 7 days from the 21st july to reply, and they cancelled my credit card on the 23rd!!??

 

again i would like to reitterate that i have never missed any payments on my credit card, and they have never written to me warning me that my credit card facilty will be withdrawn,...is there anything i can do?

 

i already arranged to pay them back the £57 at the end this month,

 

all advise appreciated

thanks!

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I think this may be one of the rare occasions when it's better to speak to them and try to sort it out that way first - you are owed an explanation if nothing else........

 

....

Edited by johnnymitch
deleted irrelevant matter.....

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Advice & opinions given by johnnymitch are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

 

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Sorry, Melissa - I should have left that in... they may be using your £57 as an excuse to terminate your Credit Card because you're not in enough debt to make it worth their while...... Egg were doing that a few months ago to 'model' customers - because they weren't making any money out of them :mad:

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Advice & opinions given by johnnymitch are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

 

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i think (dont have one, not seen the T&C's) that isnt there a clause that states that they can cancel / withdraw credit at their discretion

Don't Quote me on that :lol:

 

I am now a rep hunter :lol:

Have I helped, educated, impressed?

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Guest malissa7999
i think (dont have one, not seen the T&C's) that isnt there a clause that states that they can cancel / withdraw credit at their discretion

 

 

have just been reading this thread and found it very useful, and according to the CCA1974, they can not just terminate at there 'discretion'.

i had not defaulted with the credit card..or my bank account for that matter.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/egg/136848-termination-egg-credit-card.html#post1450445

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I would still say that the direct approach is worth a try in this case Malissa, before you take it further.

- After all, it could be that the letters, which are usually templated, and kickstarted by certain criteria, were erroneously issued initially - and the follow-up was automatic..... give them a chance to explain ....then if you're not happy - clobber 'em LOL!:D

Let's know how you get on - there's always help on here if you need it.:)

Nemo me impune lacessit

 

 

Advice & opinions given by johnnymitch are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

 

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Guest malissa7999
I would still say that the direct approach is worth a try in this case Malissa, before you take it further.

- After all, it could be that the letters, which are usually templated, and kickstarted by certain criteria, were erroneously issued initially - and the follow-up was automatic..... give them a chance to explain ....then if you're not happy - clobber 'em LOL!:D

Let's know how you get on - there's always help on here if you need it.:)

 

hi,

yes i did call them as soon as i recieved the letter telling me to return my credit card cut up,..cos i thought to myself 'what the bloody hell they playin at?'... they agreed that they had terminated my credit card account on the 23rd july, even though i had not defaulted on it!..and they had not informed me that they had any intention of terminating my credit card account,... i spoke with a manager for 1 hour and 22 mins (most of that i was put on hold)... in the end i was told that someone would call me back and that she was logging it as a formal complaint,.... just wondered if i should write to them though?

 

one of the points i picked up on another thread was that because they have terminated my credit account in breach of the CCA1974, without giving any notice/default... they have no right under the cca1974 to claim the debt outstanding on the agreement that they have terminated by there own free will,... the important point to remember is i had never missed any payments on my credit card account and it was never defaulted,...

 

i will keep this thread posted with what response i get back from hsbc.

 

thanks

malissa

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Guest malissa7999
I would suggest a complaint to the FOS as there is no valid reason for the card to be terminated

 

 

saint

 

hi,

 

funny you should say that, i did threaten them thats what i would do as they have acted in breach of the CCA1974,(tried my best to sound as if i know what im on about)..the thing is, im secretly hoping they resolve this themselves as i havent a clue what to say to the FOS:rolleyes::???:

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just wondered if i should write to them though?

 

I would Malissa, that way if you get an answer you'll have something concrete to support your complaint to FOS . At the moment there is no real evidence that you tried to resolve this with the bank.

 

Write telling them that you believe they are in default of the agreement and ask them to resolve it (give them a time limit, say 14 days?)- otherwise you'll report them to FOS. Send it 'Recorded Delivery' (so someone has to sign for it) and keep a copy to send to FOS if necessary.

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Advice & opinions given by johnnymitch are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

 

If you think I've helped you please feel free to tickle my star :-D

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Guest malissa7999

hi,

would someone be able to tell me where i can find a template letter, or help me create a letter that i can send to hsbc asking them under what part of the cca1974 did they rightfully have to terminate my credit card account?

 

so far i havent written to them.only called them, but i have recieved a letter saying that they are investigating my complaint,....the original letter they sent me requested that i send them back my card cut up, but when complaining on the phone the manager advised me to keep hold of it...which do you think is the best to do?

 

also now that they have terminated my account willfully and wrongfully, i have not paid this months payment... i would also like help to create a letter advising them that i shall not be making any further payments, and if they insist on me making payments on an agreement which has been terminated by themselves,for them to tell me under which part of the cca1974 are they claiming that i still owe them money under an agreement that no longer exists due to them making a breach of the cca1974?

 

and i would like to include in the letter that they no longer have my permission from the moment they terminated my account/agreement to process any data to the credit ref agencies, as this would be a further breach under the data protection act...

 

please please could someone help me to put the above mentioned points in a well presented letter, so that i can present myself and my case swiftly to hsbc?

 

as always all help/advice is much apprecciated

cheers all

malissa :)

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Hi Malissa ,

 

I think if you click on this link you'll probably find a template that you can use , suitably modified .......

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/20758-creditors-dcas-letter-templates.html#post162353

 

but come back if you're in any doubt.........:)

Nemo me impune lacessit

 

 

Advice & opinions given by johnnymitch are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

 

If you think I've helped you please feel free to tickle my star :-D

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Hiya malissa, most banks credit agreements have a termination clause, after all its their money your borrowing and they are allowed to say can we have our money back please :rolleyes:, a case in point recently was Egg who decided they were making no money from a big section of their card holders so they ended the agreements :cool:.

 

Where you do have them is the manner they have terminated your card and as you have been advised I would submit a complaint to the FOS about this, as for the card I would think it has been stopped by the bank so do as the manager says and hold on to it for the time being :rolleyes:.

 

Be careful about withholding repayments, you probably will have a few months grace before they start to get heavy with you but you have had the money so sooner or later you will have to repay it :cool:.

 

In the mean time you need to send them a Consumer Credit Act section 78 request for a true copy of your credit agreement to see exactly what you signed up to (or didn't) :) (letter N on the link below) and you need to stop using the phone and start writing letters so you can prove exactly what is happening :)

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/20758-creditors-dcas-letter-templates.html

 

I will get johnny to post the account in dispute stuff cuz he knows where it is :oops:

 

pete

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Hi Pete, -happy to oblige .......:)

 

Take your pick from these Malissa -whichever suits ........... :)

 

 

Re: Account in Dispute

 

 

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: XXXXXXX

 

Dear Sirs

 

Re: Account in Dispute

 

I am writing to clarify that I am currently in the process of requesting a refund of bank charges unlawfully made to my account.

 

I note from your latest correspondence that you are proposing to issue me with a Default Notice on this account - I need to make you fully aware that I am disputing the sum owed and, as such, you must refrain from any further action until this dispute is fully resolved.

 

If you do not stop this default action and proceed by making any adverse comments on my credit reference files, I shall be forced to take legal action against you under the Data Protection Act 1998.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/110742-bls-no-cca-but.html#post1084460

Nemo me impune lacessit

 

 

Advice & opinions given by johnnymitch are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

 

If you think I've helped you please feel free to tickle my star :-D

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Sorry, since \\i started using Word 2007 - I'm getting font marks showing -

 

Try this as well :

 

Re: Account in Dispute

There is an account in dispute letter.

 

Account In Dispute

 

Ref:

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Thank you for your letter of xx/xx/xx, the contents of which have been noted.

 

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

 

On the **DATE** I wrote to you requesting a copy of the credit agreement and other information under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Sections 77-79).

 

On **DATE** a member of your staff signed for delivery of my written request and I have an electronic proof of delivery showing their signature and the date.

 

To date you have failed to comply with these requests in any way, whether by confirmation of receipt of the request or by supplying the requested documents.

 

These documents I requested should be readily available as proof of your legal right to collect this account under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

In my letter of the **DATE** I made a formal request for a copy of the signed, executed credit agreement for the above account under section 77(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

 

Furthermore

 

 

You are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before your client enters into a default situation.

 

If that request is not satisfied after a further 30 calendar days your client commits a summary criminal offence.

 

 

As you are no doubt aware section 77(6) states:

 

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

 

(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

 

And

 

(b) If the default continues for one month he commits an offence.

 

 

As you have failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, failed to send a full statement of the account and failed to provide any of the documentation requested.

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

 

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

 

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

 

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; you must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

 

Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY

Action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

 

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Remember, print your name, don't sign.

Nemo me impune lacessit

 

 

Advice & opinions given by johnnymitch are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

 

If you think I've helped you please feel free to tickle my star :-D

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You're welcome, pete.........:D

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Advice & opinions given by johnnymitch are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

 

If you think I've helped you please feel free to tickle my star :-D

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Guest malissa7999

hi all,

 

thanks for the advice and letter templates,... but the account isnt really in dispute...yet.

what has happened is i had an old bank account which owed £57.94..(which i have now paid back and am 6p in credit:D)..they have not issued me with any defaults or closed this account...only a final demand..

 

but at the same time without notifying/warning me they wrote to me telling me to return my credit card as i am no longer permitted to make use of the facilty...when i called them they advised me that the account had been closed on the 23rd july.....never been told about this,and they have still kept my bank account open!!

i am not claiming back any charges...thanks johnymitch, but the 1st template i cant really use as it dosent apply in my situation...

 

this is what i have just typed and printed this morning ready to post tomorrow,..please tell me what you guys think about it>>>

 

Dear Sir/Madame,

With reference to the above agreement, I would be grateful if you would indicate to me which part of the CCA 1974 provided Hsbc with the authority to terminate my account when it was not in default.

 

I understand that the law regulating termination of credit card agreements is CCA 1974. Under that law, and any associated regulations, Hsbc has no legal entitlement to terminate a credit card agreement without first giving the alleged defaulter a default notice, and complying with the necessary subsequent procedures, such as under S88 and S89 of CCA 1974.

I would like to clarify my request, which is for Hsbc to indicate which part of CCA 1974 provides Hsbc with the entitlement to terminate my Hsbc agreement when it is not in default.

Hsbc are not allowed to process any of my personal data without my permission which would effectively have been withdrawn with the termination of the agreement.

Should Hsbc disagree, consider this as formal notice; with immediate effect I revoke my permission for Hsbc to process any of my personal data.

Hsbc certainly may not update any of my credit files – should Hsbc continue to do so that would be an offence under the Data Protection Act 1998.

I look forward to hearing from you.

 

Yours faithfully

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Guest malissa7999

hi, can someone please check that my letter will be ok, i really want to post it to hsbc tomorrow.....critism will be no good once its in the postbox:confused:..thanks again!

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Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner if your letter has gone ,Malissa .

I think that the Terms and Conditions have a lot to do with how and when the bank is able to terminate your Credit Card agreement.

Courtesy of Jowalshy, I'm, posting the relevant T & C s - :

 

Jo says : I have a copy of the T&C's and it states:-

 

9. Ending this agreement

 

a. We may cancel or suspend the use of the card and/or cheques for all or any pueposes or refuse to replace or reissue the Card if:-

 

i there is a breach of this agreement.

ii we have reasonable grounds for suspecting that you have committed or are about to commit a crime or other abuse in connection with the use of the card or the account

iii we have reasonable grounds for suspecting there may be an adverse credit risk in respect of the account

iv you die

v you are bankrupt or have similar proceedings taken against you

vi your bank account with us or any member of the HSBC Group is frozen

 

vii the card or the account has not been used for at least 12 months

viii any information you gave us when you applied for the card is found to be untrue or where we have reasonable grounds for suspecting this.

 

b. We may end this agreement in any of the circumstances set out in Clause 9a or in any other exeptional circumstances and/or demand repayment of the balance on the account, in each case subject to service of any notice required by law.

 

c. This agreement will also end when either of us gives notice in writing to the other and where you end this agreement, when you return to us all cards and cheques.

We will give you 30 days notice if we end this agreement under this clause 9c.

 

d. If this agreement ends:

i you must ensure there is no further use of the card, and cancel any payment authorities and standing orders

ii you will be liable for transactions made before or after this agreement ends (apart from any refered to us for authorisation after it ended)

iii the terms of this agreement will continue to apply until we have been paid in full

iv we may require immediate repayment of the balance on the account

 

Now, it would seem that ,if you got the proper, formal 30 days notice before they cancelled your agreement, then they have every right to ask for it back - if you didn't get the notice surely they would be in breach of their own T&Cs ...........

Nemo me impune lacessit

 

 

Advice & opinions given by johnnymitch are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

 

If you think I've helped you please feel free to tickle my star :-D

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Guest malissa7999

hi, Johnnymitch,

thanks for your reply... but i dont think its correct about there t+c's depending on how/if they can terminate an account,(the bank may certainly think they do).... the cca1974 was put in place to protect the debtor,and credit agreements are regulated by the cca1974, and this means that there t+c's must also be within these regulations,...so it dosent matter what the bank have written in there t+c's,..if they have been written outside the regulations of the cca1974,..then they are pretty much meaningless, the creditor and their t+c's must be within the regulations of the cca 1974,...and after a lot of reading on this site... it may appear that even their own t+c's are in breach of the cca1974! ...oh they didnt write to me at all with there intention to close my account,..just asjed for the card back cut up,..they had already closed my account by the time i had recieved this request.

 

but again, after much reading they are not entitled to terminate my account when it was not in default,(even so,they would have do this within the cca1974),... and again with what i have read on this site,..if they have terminated my account in breach of the cca1974...how can they rely on the cca1974 to claim any debt outstanding?..as they would have terminated any of their entitlemt under the agreement....

 

there is much debate on this site from lots of different angles regarding this type of scenario,..but no one can overide/change/remove the cca1974 and what its purpose was designed for,..and banks regardless of their own t+c's must abide by the cca1974 and the regulations laid out in it.

 

thanks

malissa,

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there is much debate on this site from lots of different angles regarding this type of scenario,..

 

You're right malissa, in fact the same sort of discussion is going on in this thread:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/hsbc-bank/126335-trying-remove-default-hsbc-new-post.html

 

Have a look at it - it seems a bit contradictory in places, but the 2 people having the discussion are experienced posters so you may get a way forward from them............:)

Nemo me impune lacessit

 

 

Advice & opinions given by johnnymitch are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

 

If you think I've helped you please feel free to tickle my star :-D

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Guest malissa7999

ok im really desperate now,...hsbc have written to me in responce to my telephone complaint...basicaly stateing that its in there t+c's that they are allowed to cancel my credit card,..if i am in breach of my account with them...but am i really considered in breach when my account is still open and they havent issued any default???.... i dont get all this law malarky!...and i find its really difficult to get help and advice off this site where everyone is singing off the same hym sheet, it just makes folk like me really confused!

ive been to different sites and asked for help,..i dont feel i can challege my bank without help and support from members of this site............i feel like giving the whole thing up,it gets me so down!

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