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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Swift Advances. Secured Loan Charges reclaim


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Evening all,

 

I think mine are too - checking tomorrow......

 

Goodnight - sleep tight (Yes I know it is only 6.35 p.m. - I just like an early night!)

 

No ribald comments please - I need my beauty sleep. (Good grief I must really be ugly to go to bed that early...!!)

 

Dougal

 

ps: Have just looked in the mirror and noticed two things:

 

1. The early nights are NOT working and

2. I really am in need of early nights!!!! :-|

Update: 2013 Following our recent (9/7/13) hearing about Bank Charges at the Court of Appeal, and refusal to grant permission to Appeal; an Application has just (23/10/2013) been made for a fresh hearing and the Court Location is yet to be confirmed!

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Having checked the OFT info on CCA licences

This is what has been discovered Eastern Counselling Services must hold a category E licence issued by the OFT.

 

Swift Group Legal Services must hold a category F licence

 

Swift Advances Plc from October 2008 should have held a category H1 & H3 licence.

 

None of them held or hold any of these licences.......each one of these companies have been and still are committing criminal offences..............if I worked for any of the SWIFT companies

 

 

I still have not had a reply from Mr Webster when I asked him which "Swift Group" he was CEO of.

 

 

sparkie

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If you have had a counselling fee charged to your account and the vast majority have......that has been applied while a criminal offence was being committed to do this the Category E licence had to be held........that is one charge you can claimback....the second is the account management fee of £70 per month is claimable because to do this again comes under the Category E licence, every time they charged it they were committing a criminal offence;):D

 

 

sparkie

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From 2004

Eastern Counselling Service

 

Your business is classified as Category E if you intend to provide debt counselling services with no limitation. This would allow you to provide such services on a commercial basis (that means that either you or an associate* will charge a fee or otherwise receive remuneration in connection with the provision of such services and/or in the course of carrying on any consumer credit or ancillary credit business and do not operate, for example, solely as a non-commercial charitable service). You are likely to require this category if you or any of your associates provide any consumer credit or ancillary credit services on a commercial basis.

 

This limits you and/or any associate* to offering debt counselling services on a non-commercial basis only. You should not apply for this limited category if any of your and/or any of your associates’ debt counselling and/or consumer credit or ancillary credit activities are carried out on a commercial basis (see definition in Category E), even if you also provide some such services on a non-commercial basis. It is a criminal offence to carry out any activities that require Category E if your licence only permits you to undertake the limited activities permitted under Category E2

Edited by Sparkie1723
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This applies to Swift Group Legal Services

 

 

Their letters allways start WE ACT ON BEHALF OF SWIFT ADVANCES PLC

 

From October 2008, if you want to carry out activities (other than debt collection) relating to consumer credit or consumer hire agreements on behalf of another person who is the creditor, including someone to whom the agreement has been assigned (in the case of consumer credit), or owner (in the case of consumer hire) you will need to apply for Category G.

Please note:

You will not need this category if you are acting in your own interest, for example administering loans made by you that have not been assigned by a third party.

You can exercise and enforce the rights of the creditor or owner of the consumer credit or consumer hire agreement under this category, as long as you are not doing anything which may amount to debt collecting. This means that in order to take steps to enforce agreements and secure payments on behalf of another person you will need Category F, debt collecting.

 

 

Swift Group Legal Services do not hold this category licence.....and they are not on Swift Advances Plc BOG standard licence.

 

They can be referred to as criminals

 

 

sparkie

Edited by Sparkie1723
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Can anyone answer the question you ask with regards to the account number being on the agreement?

 

If you think about it the account will only be created after the

agreement has been signed, returned to the creditor and the loan issued. So if the agreement has been numbered to agree with the account number, it would have had to have been added after the account opened.

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All other agreements I have checked show an agreement number and I have checked quite a few...but that still does not answer my question ..............does a credit agreement have to have an agreement number on it?? Can't seem to find the answer.

Whichever..... whether it does or does not its a question unanswered at the moment. I don't like unanswered quesions

 

Agreements are sent to a borrower all set up ..........minus the signatures ....the borrower and the Creditor.....sometimes the creditor signs first but not allways.

 

I look for clues ...I look for stuff most people can't see ......that's my job I'm an auto spark ...you can't see electricity ...but you know its there when it " Bites" you:D:D:D

 

 

sparkie

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This is the other one I like:D:D

 

 

If you want to collect information about the creditworthiness of people with a view to giving it to others, you will be regarded as a credit reference agency and are likely to need to apply for Category I.1 All those who wish to be licensed to provide such services will need to satisfy the OFT that they are – or will shortly become – fully compliant with the requirements of the Consumer Credit (Credit Reference Agency) Regulations 2000 and the specific provisions of the Consumer Credit Act 19742 and Data Protection Act 19983 of direct relevance.

Please note:

You may be regarded as a credit reference agency if, on behalf of fellow members of a group of companies, you hold information about customers dealing with members of the group and supply this information to others in the group.

If you apply for Category I you will need to submit a Credit Risk Profile as part of your application in order to assist the OFT’s consideration of your fitness to be licensed and to enable it to make further decisions on the level of scrutiny which it will apply to your business if the licence is granted. You may also be subject to an on-site inspection of your business.

Edited by Sparkie1723
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THere is no way that Swift will like the OFT visiting their premises to make checks ...that is whay they have not applied to renew their licence they are trying to find a way how to apply for a new licence and use another company.......Can't use the Kestrel Companies that would bring them out into the open and agin would require a visit to Arcadia House to verify Kestrels credentials.......can't use Swift 1st Ltd as they do FSA regulated mortgages.........they have a problem in my opinion....all caused by our small group of "freedom fighters";):D:D

 

Mr Webster and all the Directors of all their companies have only themselves to blame all we ever wanted was fair and reasonable treatment ....what we came up againss was greed and avarice.

 

All I wanted when I first wrote to them was to remove all the set up fees and charges from our loan..... reduce the payments by £70 per month ( cost of these fees and charges and the interest) if they had done that in May 2007 .....I would not have been involved in this forum and that is a fact.

What they did do in May 2007 was immediately put the interest rate up and dismss my request....the rest is history.

 

sparkie

Edited by Sparkie1723
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From the point of view of security, it would be advisable if each agreement was numbered.

However it stands to reason that if the account number is added after the account is set up, that the agreement number does not have to be on the agreement. It is an extra means of identifying the account. Though it should be included on a Default Notice as it is necessary to identify the account that is being defaulted.

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Because the Kestrel Companies accounts state that their principle business is lending money to the domestic market secured on property This person asked the OFT if Kestrel Loans No1 Ltd & Kestrel Loans No 3 Ltd held a CCA licence.

This was the reply he received.......this will make them squirm a bit more.;):D:D:D

 

 

sparkie

 

 

Subject: RE: Re confirmation of phone call

Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 15:12:11 +0100

From: [email protected]

To:

?????????????,

 

Thank you for your email.

 

I can confirm that the businesses you mention do not hold current Consumer Credit Licences.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

Tom Miller

Enquiries and Reporting Centre

 

 

 

 

 

 

They still haven't got one!!!!!!;)

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Because the Kestrel Companies accounts state that their principle business is lending money to the domestic market secured on property This person asked the OFT if Kestrel Loans No1 Ltd & Kestrel Loans No 3 Ltd held a CCA licence.

This was the reply he received.......this will make them squirm a bit more.;):D:D:D

 

 

sparkie

 

 

Subject: RE: Re confirmation of phone call

Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 15:12:11 +0100

From: [email protected]

To:

?????????????,

 

Thank you for your email.

 

I can confirm that the businesses you mention do not hold current Consumer Credit Licences.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

Tom Miller

Enquiries and Reporting Centre

 

 

 

 

 

 

They still haven't got one!!!!!!;)

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah but does it extend to caravans???:confused:

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Get back to that bone Busterg...:D:D:D:D What are you confused about now?? Which end of the bone to chew first????:D:D

 

 

 

sparkie

 

:D:D:D:D Funny.

 

No - I want to know why a caravan company's logo is on my mortgage application with Swift Group???? So have they given me a loan for a caravan or what? lol. you thought you had issues. lol:p

 

It's alright for you - its just your house. They wanna take the roof over my head and my caravan!!

Edited by busterg
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You'll love this and answers on a postcard for thse who have shared such a pleasurable experience talking to Swift:

 

My collections team are very experienced, competent at what they do, and knowledgeable about the systems and regulatory framework in which they are required at work. However, in view of Swift's sub prime customer base, we wanted to find a training provider who could deliver a course on telephone training to ensure our borrowers continued to be treated fairly and professionally, but at the same time provide a fresh look at skills that could be used to handle difficult borrowers and to maintain control of the conversation.

We chose to work with Chris Firat Training, in view of their ability to develop a training course tailored specifically to the needs of our business and the experience of our existing staff. The debt collection experience of the trainer engaged the delegates and ensured that they all contributed positively to the session from the start, and came back from the training enthusiastic and ready to try out different tactics and techniques on their debt collection calls. The impact of this training has been extremely positive for Swift, and we are now considering a follow-up training session to build further on the success of the initial one day course.

- Mark White, Collections Manager

http://www.chrisfirat.com/clients

 

Is this in an alternate reality.

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:D:D:D:D Funny.

 

No - I want to know why a caravan company's logo is on my mortgage application with Swift Group???? So have they given me a loan for a caravan or what? lol. you thought you had issues. lol:p

 

 

I told you busterg that Mr Webster was building himself a get away roadster:p

 

 

I wonder who is going to sue who over who is using who's logo??? Could be interesting:)

sparkie

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I told you busterg that Mr Webster was building himself a get away roadster:p

sparkie

 

No wonder I don't have a fixed rate - they think they have the right to move me around:p:p

 

Not funny sparkie:eek:

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The impact of this training has been extremely positive for Swift, and we are now considering a follow-up training session to build further on the success of the initial one day course.

- Mark White, Collections Manager

http://www.chrisfirat.com/clients

 

Is this in an alternate reality.

 

They are also looking at training for Lawyers on "How to tell the truth"

 

for CEO's and Directors on "How to stay in your job and remember the lies you tell"

 

and ones for Wannabbee Economists who want to be Collections Managers.

 

Then as a finale they offer one on " How to kill Ego trippers" :D

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Must ring them in Hull and ask to speak to their CEO Mr John Webster!!!:D

 

P.S S/M/C There's an old song I think ...Something to do with " Little White Lies " in the title... :)

I'm worn out laughing so I'm off to bed ...us old 'uns have to have more rest than you young 'uns:)

 

 

sparkie

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Morning,

I agree Sparkie...and I still look as if I need more.....!!:):)

 

As ever my best to all

 

Dougal

 

ps: SC : How are the Boys in Blue ?

Update: 2013 Following our recent (9/7/13) hearing about Bank Charges at the Court of Appeal, and refusal to grant permission to Appeal; an Application has just (23/10/2013) been made for a fresh hearing and the Court Location is yet to be confirmed!

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Because the Kestrel Companies accounts state that their principle business is lending money to the domestic market secured on property This person asked the OFT if Kestrel Loans No1 Ltd & Kestrel Loans No 3 Ltd held a CCA licence.

This was the reply he received.......this will make them squirm a bit more.;):D:D:D

 

 

sparkie

 

 

Subject: RE: Re confirmation of phone call

Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 15:12:11 +0100

From: [email protected]

To:

?????????????,

 

Thank you for your email.

 

I can confirm that the businesses you mention do not hold current Consumer Credit Licences.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

Tom Miller

Enquiries and Reporting Centre

 

 

 

 

 

 

They still haven't got one!!!!!!;)

 

Sparkie,

 

Am I right in assuming that the OFT KNOW that Swift are operating illegally - or (as usual) am I on a different planet to everyone else?

 

From my experience of working with the OFT if there is a really big case out there they will take it on - BUT it sometimes needs a LOT of complaints (possibly by a large group of people - if you get my drift...)

 

 

Very best wishes

 

Dougal

Update: 2013 Following our recent (9/7/13) hearing about Bank Charges at the Court of Appeal, and refusal to grant permission to Appeal; an Application has just (23/10/2013) been made for a fresh hearing and the Court Location is yet to be confirmed!

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You'll love this and answers on a postcard for thse who have shared such a pleasurable experience talking to Swift:

 

My collections team are very experienced, competent at what they do, and knowledgeable about the systems and regulatory framework in which they are required at work. However, in view of Swift's sub prime customer base, we wanted to find a training provider who could deliver a course on telephone training to ensure our borrowers continued to be treated fairly and professionally, but at the same time provide a fresh look at skills that could be used to handle difficult borrowers and to maintain control of the conversation.

We chose to work with Chris Firat Training, in view of their ability to develop a training course tailored specifically to the needs of our business and the experience of our existing staff. The debt collection experience of the trainer engaged the delegates and ensured that they all contributed positively to the session from the start, and came back from the training enthusiastic and ready to try out different tactics and techniques on their debt collection calls. The impact of this training has been extremely positive for Swift, and we are now considering a follow-up training session to build further on the success of the initial one day course.

- Mark White, Collections Manager

http://www.chrisfirat.com/clients

 

Is this in an alternate reality.

 

Morning BG

 

For God's sake don't let SMC see this link....it's got his arch enemies Cabot on it :shock: ( and a large number of other to**ers too..!!)

 

Still working on my part against Swift time limit expires (for them) in 8 days now.........

 

Best regards

 

Dougal

Update: 2013 Following our recent (9/7/13) hearing about Bank Charges at the Court of Appeal, and refusal to grant permission to Appeal; an Application has just (23/10/2013) been made for a fresh hearing and the Court Location is yet to be confirmed!

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Has anyone seen this? Seems SWIFT are protecting themselves, customers and staff?

 

CIFA S the uk's fraud prevention service

 

List of CIFAS Members - CIFAS Online

 

A few snipet's from the web site

 

Protective Registration

 

 

THE PROTECTIVE REGISTRATION SERVICE

 

Protective Registration is a service offered by CIFAS that helps to protect those whose identity is at risk due to crime or loss of data.

A CIFAS warning flag marked Protective Registration is placed against your name and personal details which indicates the individual has been recorded on the CIFAS database for their protection. CIFAS Members when undertaking a search against your name and personal details will see "CIFAS-DO NOT REJECT-VALIDATION REQUIRED".

As a result of the entry, CIFAS Members will undertake additional verification checks to ascertain that the applicant is genuine and not a fraudster trying to commit identity theft. This may mean you personally experience delays while your application is verified, but offers reassurance that your identity is protected against fraudulent applications in your name.

There are two types of Protective Registration that are available: for individuals who have been the victims of fraud or crime and for organisations who wish to protect their customers and employees from any suspected data loss.

Further information about Protective Registration can be found here .

To find out more about Protective Registration for individuals please click here.

To find out more about Protective Registration for organisations please click here.

 

For Organisations

 

 

Protective Registration For Organisations (Data Security Breaches)

If you are interested in protecting the identity of your company, please refer to the information for individuals and complete the application form, using the details of your company.

CIFAS offers a service to help organisations to protect consumers and employees from identity fraud where there has been a data security breach. For example: when a laptop bearing customer details is stolen, or payroll or other information is intercepted, a straightforward solution is available from CIFAS.

The service is known as the Bulk Protective Registration Service. It enables organisations to co-ordinate and submit to the CIFAS database the details of all those individuals who require protection as a batch. Before doing so, in accordance with the Data Protection Act, the organisation must inform its customers or employees of the data breach and that their personal data is being processed by CIFAS to complete the Protective Registration.

The service allows those who are at risk of identity theft to have a special CIFAS warning 'flag' placed on their credit reference agency file. Then when, for example, an application for credit or insurance is received by a CIFAS Member (such as a bank, building society or insurance company), the Member is alerted by the warning 'flag' to undertake additional verification checks to ascertain that the applicant is genuine, and not a fraudster trying to commit identity theft. This information is held in the strictest confidence. The information is not used for any other purpose.

 

Conditions

Certain conditions must be fulfilled before CIFAS can accept and process any data, and companies or organisations must agree in writing to the following procedures.

 

  1. It is the responsibility of the company or organisation to explain the CIFAS Protective Registration Service to the individuals and set out the advantages and disadvantages of registration. The company or organisation also has to inform the individual that CIFAS is dealing with their personal data for crime prevention and/or detection purposes, and that the registration is taking place.
     
  2. The organisation submitting the request must notify the individuals of the breach of data security and that their personal data is being processed by CIFAS as part of the Protective Registration, to meet the requirements of the Data Protection Act.This notification is known as the Fair Processing Notice (FPN).

Organisations interested in this Bulk Protective Registration Service should contact [email protected]

Individuals seeking CIFAS Protective Registration should read the Protective Registration for Individuals page by clicking here

 

What is Staff Fraud?

 

Staff fraud occurs when a member of staff dishonestly makes false representation, or wrongfully fails to disclose information, or abuses a position of trust for personal gain, or causes loss to others.

Fraudulent activity perpetrated by members of staff can range from compromising customer or payroll data to straightforward theft or the submission of inflated expenses. Staff fraud can be opportunistic i.e. it can be a completely unplanned attack purely for personal financial gain. However, staff fraud can also be linked to a serious and organised criminal network or terrorist financing.

“The lack of employee recruitment checks and controls in some organisations lies at the heart of the employee fraud problem. They are the first line of defence in stopping the criminals placing individuals inside your organisation.” CIFAS research, Employee Fraud: The enemy within

Click here to learn more about the CIFAS Staff Fraud Database.

To download a free copy of Chartered Institute for Personnel and Development & CIFAS guide to Tackling Staff Fraud and Dishonesty: Managing and Mitigating the Risks – Guidelines for Employers, HR and Line Managers, please click here

 

CIFAS Staff Fraud Database

 

 

 

Increasing Incidences of Staff Fraud

The majority of staff in any organisation are honest and trustworthy. However, there is an increasing threat posed by the small proportion of staff who act dishonestly and defraud their employer. This could lead to an organisation experiencing a substantial internal impact, significant financial losses and an unquantifiable damage to reputation.

 

Problem: Movement of Fraudsters

Moreover, it is well known that staff dismissed for (or who resigned before being identified as involved in) a fraudulent activity move freely from one employer to another, possibly perpetrating further frauds. Deterioration in the value of references and generally inadequate levels of vetting has exacerbated this problem.

 

Solution: CIFAS Staff Fraud Database

CIFAS is able to help the responsible employer to address this problem and minimise the risk of taking on a fraudster as an employee. This is achieved by a data sharing scheme called the CIFAS Staff Fraud Database. An employer accesses this database for the purposes of:

  • Filing data about their staff fraud cases
  • Accessing staff fraud records filed by other CIFAS Members

The burden of proof required to file on to the CIFAS Staff Fraud Database is that the:

  • Information must be factual and accurate.
  • The CIFAS Member must have sufficient clear evidence of wrongdoing to have reasonable grounds to press criminal charges if a suspect was traced.
  • The CIFAS Member must be willing to make a full report to the police.
  • The criminal offence must be identifiable.

Validation

The Information Commissioner's Office was consulted during the development of the database.

The CIFAS membership, Financial Services Authority, Confederation of British Industry, Trades Union Congress and the Chartered Institute for Personnel and Development have all welcomed the establishment of the CIFAS Staff Fraud Database.

The Financial Service Authority published a report on Data Security in the Financial Services: Firms’ controls to prevent data loss by their employees and third party suppliers. This report, which was welcomed by the Information Commissioner, highlighted the use of the CIFAS Staff Fraud Database as good practice. To download a free copy of this report, please click here

The National Fraud Authority’s National Fraud Strategy has stated that “sharing data within a framework that safeguards people’s privacy is critical to identifying and preventing fraud” and described the CIFAS Staff Fraud Database as a success in this area. To download a copy of the National Fraud Strategy, please click here

 

LL

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Sparkie,

 

Am I right in assuming that the OFT KNOW that Swift are operating illegally - or (as usual) am I on a different planet to everyone else?

 

From my experience of working with the OFT if there is a really big case out there they will take it on - BUT it sometimes needs a LOT of complaints (possibly by a large group of people - if you get my drift...)

 

 

Very best wishes

 

Dougal

 

Morning Dougal,

 

What I can say for certain is both the OFT and the FSA are fully aware of ALL the information many many "SWIFT" customers have made them aware of ......is being seriously looked at and the appropriate wheels of action are in motion ...also as you are aware these two bodies move at what we consider a very slow pace ....but you can be assured that not one stone will be left unturned....that is one fact I am certain of ....I also believe that action will be taken and that it will be bigger than what was taken against against Gmac, as it relates to far bigger issues that just extortionate charges and fees.

With this one the OFT and the FSA are talking to each other and working together.

 

I am also privvy to the fact that the ICO is to begin their investigation into "The SWIFT GROUP"????? and the Kestrel Companies in the next two weeks or so. They also will be in contact with the OFT & the FSA I have asked them to do so whaen I made my initial complaint.

 

 

 

sparkie

Edited by Sparkie1723
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