LloydsTSB what a surprise ***WON***

[RedVixen]

Hi

 

This is already posted in the debt forum as missold PPI could wipe out the majority of my debt with LloydsTSB

 

I sent in two complaints 5 weeks ago - one was using a fairly standard template it was for an old loan of £10,000 which at the time they basically forced me to take out to survive as they refused to increase my overdraft by about £150 which I need due to an unforseen financial item. (should point out it was basically a reschedule of an existing £10000 loan which had run for a short while. The sales guy boasted about a holiday he had won of the back of loan sales - nice to know I was one of the mugs that helped him get that - I certainly couldn't afford a holiday abroad at the time)

 

The other I shall post here as the letter explains the circumstances very well - it is not a standard complaint

[RedVixen]

I wish to make a formal complaint regarding the conduct of several members of LloydsTSB Staff regarding the set up and administration of my loan account.

Loan agreement XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

This loan was set up to consolidate the remaining balance of a graduate loan and the overdraft on my current account (account no XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX) at that time.

At the time of making the loan application (February 2005)I made it clear that I was registered as full time research student at the University of XXXXXXX and also that my funding period was due to end in the September 2005. I stated that I expected to take a pay cut at this point which is why I wanted to consolidate the two accounts to reduce my monthly outgoings

When the question of Payment Protection Insurance came up the salesman (first name xxxxx at xxxxxxxxx Branch) reluctantly agreed with my statement that as I was a student Lloyds would not honor any PPI and so it was verbally agreed at that stage that PPI WOULD NOT BE APPLIED TO THIS LOAN ACCOUNT. I was told that I would receive a letter outlining the reasons why PPI was not included on this account.

This letter did not arrive

When the loan document arrived (copies enclosed) PPI had been added as a single premium to the loan amount against my wishes and the agreement I had made with the account manager. This I didn't spot immediately.

A few months later when I had the opportunity, I went into my local branch (xxxxx High Street) to discuss this. At the time I was employed on a temporary contract. I was told by an account manager that in actual fact PPI would be honored even though I was on a temporary contract, and this particular individual went through the PPI booklet and pointed out the relevant sections that in her opinion backed this up. I stupidly made the decision not to take the matter any further at this point.

A couple of years later when I had reason to talk to another Lloyds employee at xxxxx High Street Branch – Mr xxxxx) regarding my accounts I mentioned this again – at this point I had been temping for 2 years and payments had been in a timely fashion – the line used then was as I had been paying for over 2 years at that point PPI would be honored.

In March this year after struggling for several weeks on casual wages I spent a short time claiming Job Seekers Allowance so I contacted the loan department to make a claim

AND GUESS WHAT

As I has been in temporary employment apparently LloydsTSB PPI doesn’t pay up if an individual has been in temporary employment even though at this point had had been making payments on the loans for nearly 3 years. In fact the reality was that at no point during the time that this loan had been in operation would LloydsTSB PPI pay up if I was to become unemployed.

The only reason I had not pursued an earlier complaint regarding the conduct of the loan salesman is because I was ASSURED by 2 members of branch staff that the PPI would be honored – so were they lying or is Lloyds TSB training regarding its financial products woefully inadequate? .

Given the catalogue of errors, incompetence and misinformation regarding this matter I expect you to resolve this to my satisfaction within 8 weeks. This entails a full refund of all money paid so far on this policy with associated interest. plus as I have been deprived unnecessarily of this money I also expect the 8% statutory interest to be added to each payment made, which as you know is the amount a court would award.

If this is not received then I will be making a formal approach to the financial ombudsman regarding this matter

I look forward to hearing from you shortly regarding this matter

Yours faithfully

[RedVixen]

And the response to this complaint - see if you can spot any relevance to the complaint at all p even the start date quoted is wrong

 

Page 1

 

 

Page 2

 

 

[RedVixen]

The reply so far though I don't think i am going to give her the two weeks just go straight to the FOS

 

Thankyou for you letter dated 18th July in which you personally demonstrate yet again the complete incompetence of LloydsTSB.

 

I sent two complaints in relating to two loans and you have responded to the wrong one. I have to say that I am not surprised. I am also not surprised that the concerns which relate to a different loan have clearly NOT been investigated and that you have simply cut and pasted standard responses to in the case of the other loan was a template complaint.

 

Firstly not only have you applied the wrong bull**** to the wrong complaint you even got the date the loan started wrong – it began in 2005 not 2007

 

I did NOT verbally agree to PPI on this loan as I clearly stated to the seller that I was in full time education and that the funding period was due to end in September 2005. I also made it clear that I did not have a job lined up so your seller sold a 7 year loan to an individual who knew they may not have an income 6 months after it started. I was open and honest about this, the seller clearly wasn’t.

 

Having has the ‘NO PPI’ discussion I clearly did not check the documentation, stupid me I trusted a bank employee – never again. But as my circumstances AT THE TIME would have made the PPI invalid you have absolutely no recourse for twittering on about cancelling if my circumstances changed – it was never valid in the first place nor was it applied for. Even if the ‘no PPI’ discussion had not taken place clearly in including it the seller was either not sufficiently trained or a greedy lying Piers Morgan who wanted the commission that I know your employees get for selling these policies

 

I have enclosed a copy of the original complaint that actually relates to this loan to see if you can do a better job this time. You have two weeks form the date of this letter after which I WILL take it further

 

At the moment LloydsTSB owe me including loan interest is £2849.19. I should point out that should this go to court the amount including the 8% that courts add will be £3365.32 at this moment in time; of course these figures will increase the longer you drag this out.

 

I should also point out that the word MAY will not be used by myself in relation to this matter and court proceedings should you continue to refuse to give me MY money back – IT WILL HAPPEN. I will also be contacting Trading Standards about an increasingly long list of complaints I am gathering about the arrogant and thieving behaviour of LloydsTSB

[ReasonableRon]

Firstly not only have you applied the wrong bull**** to the wrong complaint you even got the date the loan started wrong – it began in 2005 not 2007

 

Even if the ‘no PPI’ discussion had not taken place clearly in including it the seller was either not sufficiently trained or a greedy lying Piers Morgan who wanted the commission that I know your employees get for selling these policies

 

Not sure if you are seriously going to include these lines in your reply but if you do I wouldn't expect to get any sympathy from the FOS.

[RedVixen]

Those bits will be reworded to suggest the same with politer words - I just haven't thought of them yet

[RedVixen]

Latest version - directly offensive bits have been removed

 

 

 

Thankyou for you letter dated 18th July in which you personally demonstrate yet again the complete incompetence of LloydsTSB. I am absolutely disgusted by shambolic response you have provided.

 

I sent two complaints in relating to two loans at the same time and you have clearly responded to the wrong one. I have to say that I am not surprised. I am also not surprised that the concerns which relate to a different loan have clearly NOT been investigated and that you have simply cut and pasted standard responses to in the case of the other loan was a template complaint. This one was not by any stretch of the imagination a standard complaint.

 

Firstly not only have you applied the wrong cut and paste paragraphs to the wrong complaint, you even got the date the loan started wrong – it began in 2005 not 2007.

 

I appreciate that the workload of the complaints department is very large at this moment however fobbing customers off without looking into their complaints properly is clearly not going to solve this and is not good for customer relations..

 

I did NOT verbally agree to PPI on this loan as I clearly stated to the seller that I was in full time education and that the funding period was due to end in September 2005. I also made it clear that I did not have a job lined up, so your seller sold a 7 year loan to an individual who knew they may not have an income 6 months after it started. I was open and honest about this, the seller clearly wasn’t.

 

Having has the ‘NO PPI’ discussion I clearly did not check the documentation, stupid me I trusted a bank employee – never again. But as my circumstances AT THE TIME would have made the PPI invalid you have absolutely no recourse for twittering on about cancelling if my circumstances changed – it was never valid in the first place nor was it applied for. Even if the ‘no PPI’ discussion had not taken place clearly in including it the seller was clearly not sufficiently trained as I was open and upfront about my position at the time.

 

I should point at this point that the seller asked for copies of my banks statements going back three months which although clearly showed a very healthy income at that point in time also showed that the majority of it was received on a quarterly basis from the Engineering and Physical Sciences Research Council – a funding body for research students. I have at no time mislead Lloyds bank regarding my financial circumstances.

 

I have enclosed a copy of the original complaint that actually relates to this loan to see if you can do a better job this time. You have two weeks from the date of this letter after which I WILL take it further

 

At the moment LloydsTSB owe me including loan interest is £2849.19. I should point out that should this go to court the amount including the 8% that courts add will be £3365.32 at this moment in time; of course these figures will increase the longer you drag this out.

 

I should also point out that the word MAY will not be used by myself in relation to this matter and I WILL chase this until I receive a satisfactory outcome which is the return of all moneys relating to PPI on my LloydsTSB loans.

[adamski]

Send it!

[RedVixen]

The final version is below Its going this morning along with a full SAR for LLoyds loans and credit cards amongst others - reading around this site as the loan was a reschedule I am wondering if there is a previous PPI policy that they might not have refunded when they should

 

I am wondering if I am actually going to get a reply to the other complaint or whether they failed to realise that two letters with two different account numbers might just be about two different loans

 

 

Thankyou for you letter dated 18th July in which demonstrates yet again the complete incompetence and inefficiency of LloydsTSB. I am absolutely disgusted by shambolic response you have provided.

I sent two complaints in relating to two loans at the same time and you have clearly responded to the wrong one. I have to say that I am not surprised. I am also not surprised that the concerns which relate to a different loan have clearly NOT been investigated and that you have simply cut and pasted standard responses to in the case of the other loan was a template complaint. This one was not by any stretch of the imagination a standard complaint.

Firstly not only have you applied the wrong cut and paste paragraphs to the wrong complaint, you even got the date the loan started wrong – it began in 2005 not 2007.

I appreciate that the workload of the complaints department is very large at this moment however fobbing customers off without looking into their complaints properly is clearly not going to solve this and is not good for customer relations. If the procedures and policies mentioned on several occasions in your reply were actually being followed you would not have such a large workload would you.

To Clarify

I did NOT verbally agree to PPI on this loan as I clearly stated to the seller that I was in full time education and that the funding period was due to end in September 2005. I also made it clear that I did not have a job lined up, so your seller sold a 7 year loan to an individual who knew they may not have an income 6 months after it started. I was open and honest about this, the seller clearly didn’t care about this little detail.

Having has the ‘NO PPI’ discussion I clearly did not check the documentation, stupid me I trusted a bank employee – never again. But as my circumstances AT THE TIME would have made the PPI invalid you have absolutely no recourse for twittering on about cancelling if my circumstances changed – it was never valid in the first place nor was it applied for. Even if the ‘no PPI’ discussion had not taken place clearly in including it the seller was clearly not sufficiently trained as, and I will keep repeating this - I was open and upfront about my position at the time.

I should point at this point that the seller asked for copies of my banks statements going back three months which although clearly showed a very healthy income at that point in time also showed that the majority of it was received on a quarterly basis from the Engineering and Physical Sciences Research Council – a funding body for research students. I have at no time mislead Lloyds bank regarding my financial circumstances.

I have enclosed a copy of the original complaint that actually relates to this loan to see if you can do a better job this time. You have two weeks from the date of this letter after which I WILL take it further

At the moment LloydsTSB owe me in mis sold PPI, including loan interest £2849.19. I should point out that should this go to court the amount including the 8% that courts add will be £3365.32 at this moment in time; of course these figures will increase the longer you drag this out. As a goodwill gesture for the inconvenience and inefficiency you have shown over this LloydsTSB should pay this additional amount anyway as compensation.

I should also point out that the word MAY will not be used by myself in relation to this matter and I WILL chase this until I receive a satisfactory outcome which is the return of all moneys relating to PPI on my LloydsTSB loans.

Yours faithfully

[lexis200]

Hi

 

Just wondering if you'd had any response yet?

[RedVixen]

Hi Lexis

 

No no response as yet and I moved 2 weeks ago so they will probably get another few days grace until I get my home web connection sorted. They have teh new adress so that is no excuse and i have mailr edirect as well which seems to be working OK

 

I have sent a full SAR request as well to look at all other past loans etc but I think they may already be trying to worm round that one by mentioning electronic data - i want it ALL

[RedVixen]

Well things have just got a lot more complicated - waiting for a response form the site team befoer I detail some of it - the results of my SAR told me I have had several loans with PPI (LLoyds on several occassions would not offer short term help just rescheduling of long term borrowing - not a mistake I will EVER make again my revolving days are over once I get through this quagmire) but so far they seem to have only sent details of teh current loan but the package is huge and I haven't been through it all yet - I will be asking for more details of PPI on ALL loans and if any of the others were singel premium looking very carefully to see if they squared it all up properly before the next one was set up - suspect not but maybe I am being over cynical there

[Paintball]

RV, I'm looking forward eagerly to hearing what the result of the SAR was.

[RedVixen]

Me too Paintball if they have what I think they may have I won't actually legally owe them a penny

[Paintball]

Please don't keep us waiting tooooooo long Vix

 

Loving your letters BTW, you is fierce LOL

 

 

Painty x

[RedVixen]

LOL thanks Paintball

 

I will have to dig some more information out of them for one of my concerns but as I discuvered a few months ago sometimes reception staff haven't been told what they should and shouldn't admit to being able to find something - a new branch receptionist dug something up that an assisstant manager and the loans department said they couldn't find

 

ermm am I being too cynical there? maybe the more senior people honestly didn't know how to find the information

[alanalana]

Hello RV,

 

ermm am I being too cynical there? maybe the more senior people honestly didn't know how to find the information

 

NO You can never be too cynical where banks are concerned. Been with a bank 34 years and they still try to rip you off but in a nice sort of way:mad:

 

 

aa

[RedVixen]

I know AA - well tomorrow I am going to make an assault on my local branch to see what they can do for me - SO far I have never had a problem withe the people behind the customer services desks just those who get promoted so far they get their own office and those on the end of a phone. And Apex who are know the active DCA will be getting a bemused - there are a lot of complaints being dealt with letter so sod off til its sorted

 

I can tell form your thread its going to be a long battle - I am thinking that as they have completely messed up the first compliant I should just collect the info, and send a complaint straight into the FOS. They have had their 8 weeks and then some

[RedVixen]

Right so - I have worked out that I had PPI added to 5 loans, 4 of which were a run of graduate loans where LLoyds refused short term help but offered to reschedule my long term borrowing - I was very gullible in those days

 

Though how they can claim to be responsible lenders when the only option they give people that are up to their overdraftlimit is increased long term borrowing with hight payments is beyond me - if I was struggling before how was I supposed to manage with even more going out each month for longer huh - well all behind me now

 

Not that they have stopped, SCM informed me that if I agreed to their proposal of payments 20 times higher than I could afford LLoyds would consider rescheduleing all my borrowings in six months time - yeah right at twice the interest rate no doubt - mmm I am sure that is against guidelines - anyway back to PPI

 

On one of these loans where the gap between reschedules was six months - the whole of the PPI was refunded, so I only paid interest on that one. On the others they always seemed to hold back 20% if the actual term was less than that - one was three months i.e 5% of the agreed 60 month term yet they only refunded 80% of the PPI premium.

 

So that adds another 600ish quid to the claim once you add interest and I will be asking for that back as well. As well as the miss sell. In fact as the same guy setup allof theselaons I will actually be submitting a bigger claim for all of them -as they were rescheduled quite quickly the ammounts are relatively small

 

The most recent one is a difficult one as the contact record from the SAR request shows some entries which are false - well at least what I am alleged to have said is false and also a document with my signature on which states that I understand, accept and confirm my agreement to PPI on the loan. Now while I can't 100% claim to remember what the form had written on it - I definately remember that I was supposed to be signing something declaring why I wasn't taking PPI to cover the back of the sales guy who clearly had to justify why PPI wasn't taken to his boss.

 

It mentions 30 days to change your mind - I didn't check because as far as I was concerned PPI wouldn't be added. So I am drawing up another very long winded complaint using and directly refuting the notes - they are false. And asking them why they think I would deliberately increase my borrowing by over 25% (the PPI premium was THAT big) for the sake of a product that I knew and had discussed with the sales guy and he confirmed was of no use to me what so ever. I have a feeling that with the new information the FOS would expect me to take it through their complaints procedure first though I am not sure. Maybe it should go straight to the FOS- it will take days to complete and make sure everything is in place - any thoughts anyone

 

Please note the worst bit of the above is the behaviour of one individual not the bank as a whole.

[RedVixen]

Right so the follow up complaint has been sent. I am now claiming £9K in PPI plus linking them taking this money off me to making it harder to keep within the black and hence accruing charges. I have attached the original complaints as well but it is large package and I suspect they will get the pages mixed up.

 

Apex have also just had a snotty letter telling them to back off as the accounts are in dispute and informing them that the counter claim should they chose to take this to court will be higher than the sum they are trying to claim.

 

Well actually I said to Apex that if Lloyds denied the accounts are in dispute them they should proceed with court action as soon as possible as I can't afford to take them to court and the matters will be examined at their expense

 

As soon as I get a full time job I will do that anyway like aa i am a little impatient

[RedVixen]

Right so today I got a letter back form Lloyds complaints telling me my complaint has been sent to their Credit Operations Customer Service Recovery department. Who do they think they are kidding with the 'Customer Service Recovery' bit - FFS call it a complaints department. Now is this all of it or just part since 2 of the attached complaints were nothing to do with PPI and were connected to charges. Apparently I should get a response in 4 weeks - even though they have allegedly been looking into this for 3 months now

[dondon1973]

You have just made my day as I see there is a light at the end f the tunnel.....reading this thread I notice I have just received the same letter from Lloyds. Also received another letter saying it was their final response and to go to FSO!! They too did not respond to every concern and made many mistakes in their letter

[RedVixen]

Point out their mistakes for them. The FOS will take months but so long as they don't take me to court for the debt then that might have time to go through.

 

They have so many complaints about this at the moment and I suspect the Insurance complaints people who had it first are overwhelmed and have employed lots of typical unthinking types who just follow scripts - ie find the paragraph that you think fits best and paste it in. How they can categorically complain that their salesmen have followed procedures when there are no cameras in their little offices is beyond me. Basically they are accusing us all of lying even though certainly in my case the only people to benefit were the banks and the sales guy with their commissions

[RedVixen]

Right so today I get a letter telling me my complaint has gone back to the insurance customer service recovery who sent the first balls up out - fan-bliddy-tastic

 

Mind you I live in the same city as this department maybe a visit in a couple of weeks

[RedVixen]

I think I will send them an update of the amounts I am claiming with the added couple of weeks interest

 

Anyone interested in a little wager about whether they sent me the same crap out again in response