Unenforceable Credit Agreement?

[agbear]

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Edited January 16, 2009 by agbear
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[agbear]

Hi steven4064,

 

I'll scan in all my correspondents tomorrow at work (I’ve got 10 agreements on the go between my girlfriend and myself).

 

With HSBC they sent me a photocopy of an unsigned agreement. I’m playing it as safe as I can and sent them a letter back saying I need a copy of the original signed agreement. Regardless of this they still feel they have complied.

 

Even the agreement they did send is unenforceable because they have not stated the amount of credit.

 

I am at the juncture where I don’t know how to proceed. They do not have a signed agreement therefore they can’t enforce the debt. I was thinking the next letter should be a letter on notification that I’m ceasing payment.

 

Thanks again,

 

agbear

[kcaseya]

Hi there all,

I have just discovered you and am about to start the journey of fighting my credit agreements. Could anyone please send or direct me to the starting template with which to request the CCA's?

Thanks

[B3rty]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/20758-creditors-dcas-letter-templates.html

[kcaseya]

Wow, thanks for this! This is a huge war chest! I'll doubtless come back for some clarifications and advice, but this is a real flying start.

[kellymarie1p]

Hi this is the first time i have posted on this site but done a lot of reading.

 

I am currently trying to get my HSBC credit card written off. They have provided me with a copy of the signed agreement, but it doesn't contain all of the prescribed terms and as i believe is unenforceable and the courts can't enforce it either.

 

I have written to HSBC advising them off this, but they have replied stating that they are aware they can't enforce the agreement through the courts but this does not mean the agreement is void therefore the debt will still remain.

 

Can anyone offer any assistance on where i go from here as i feel i have hit a brick wall now and don't know how to proceed.

[dpick]

 

I have written to HSBC advising them off this, but they have replied stating that they are aware they can't enforce the agreement through the courts but this does not mean the agreement is void therefore the debt will still remain.

 

What they say is correct the debt is unenforceable by the court (keep that letter it's worth it's weight in gold) though the debt will remain. They may make further demands send begging letters etc. It's up to you you could if you feel that they have treated you with respect come to an agreed payment with them or if as in my case they have treated you like **** tell them politly or not to bogg off.

 

They will try for a while to get you to pay them then pass it to some bottom scraping DCA you just send them copy of HSBC letter admiting unenforceable DCA please go away or something like that.

 

dpick

[kellymarie1p]

Thanks very much for your quick response. If i decide not to pay will this they notify the credit reference agency

[B3rty]

Yes they will...

[kellymarie1p]

HI thanks for your response, I have one last question i hope because i can't seem to get my head round this.

 

If HSBC have confirmed that they are unable to claim through the courts to recover the amount owing because they have breached the CCA, why do they still have the right to refer any default to the Credit reference agencies. Surely this would mean that as a result of the agreement being improperly executed and untilmately irredeemably unenforceable, you are no longer bound by the terms and condtions therefore you no longer authorise them to provide information about you to third parties including credit reference agencies.

 

I am at a loss now about what to do, because they are constantly ringing about the outstanding debt to a point where it is really starting to get me down now.

 

I just find it hard that the CCA does not go a little further to protect consumers when lenders have clearly breached the regualtions.

[1mansquest]

I'm currently challenging NatWest re a CCA and they have returned a copy of the original 'Application Form' entitled "Natwest Combined Card Account and Gold Account Application Form". Does this comply with my request for a true copy of the "signed, executed credit agreement"? I've attached a scan of the document which is almost illegible, but that's how I received it!

 

I'd welcome any opinion.

Edited February 11, 2009 by 1mansquest
spelling and image update

[Jimmy Neutron]

Quick Question, I have a Conditional Sale Agreement which is regulated by the CCA 1974, and although I have signed it there is no date next to my signature or the witness for that matter and in the dates for monthly payments it is left blank

 

The only date it has on it is on behalf of Finance Company, which could have been done anytime!!

 

This was taken out in 2003.

 

Please advise

[steven4064]

Can you post a copy of the agreement here

[Jimmy Neutron]

Thanks Steve, see attahced PDF

CSA.pdf

Edited February 18, 2009 by Jimmy Neutron

[Jimmy Neutron]

Steven,

 

Have you managed to have a look at the CSA I posted for you to have a look at?

[steven4064]

I had a quick look.

 

I don't think the signature dates matter as dates are not prescribed terms. They do need to indicate the dates of payments, but the agreement says that a date for first (and subsequent) payment will be be sent to you. It is only your preferred date that is left blank.

 

I think this agreement is enforceable.

[williamzz]

eerrrrrr.... Steven, could I trouble you to have a quick look at my Mint cca please.

 

I would value your opinion as you seem to be well clued up.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/184621-mint-cca-2nd-opinion.html

[flushed]

I have two questions I need help on pleae

 

1 I took out my credit card before april 07 but have only recently built up the debts ( xmas) I had 2 k outstanding and now its 15k. I have in the past paid off the whole amount and sometimes not used the card at all after april 07. Would this card qualify on a possible unenforcebale agreement. In other words is it the amount of debt before April 07 that qualifies. i.e card stary April 07 debt variable after April 07.

 

2 If I ring up for the CCA to be sent to me and then they cant find it or havent got it then I build up a debt after requesting the CCA copy then does that put me in a position that they can enforce the agreement. Based on the fact that I have requested the CCA and then becuase they havent been able to dleiver it I have increased the debt so would that make the agreement enforcable.

 

Thanks in advance.

Edited February 26, 2009 by flushed

[BelstarBomb]

KellyMarie,

 

I don't know if this information will get back to you too late to do anything with it.

 

I am going through the last few hurdles with HSBC where I am now claiming for all the monies paid.

 

I got exactly the same as you and felt exactly the same as you. If they haven't got an enforceable agreement, how can they process my info.

 

First things first. As the agreement is unenforceable and they have confirmed that, write a S10 request to the Data Controller at HSBC. That gives them a period of time to stop processing your info and delete any other info that may be with the CRA's as they legally do not have your permission to share it with anyone.

 

Secondly, send a SAR request to whoever you have been communicating with together with your payment of £10. There are good templates on here but if you want the one that I used with HSBC I will be happy to share that with you. You must allow them 40 days to get the info back to you though.

 

If you are getting letters threatening legal action or a creditors notice, let me know and I will tell how to get shot of them too.

 

fyi, ALL of the info on my credit record relating to HSBC has gone, the DCA's have to written to confirm they will not be pursuing me and now the final thing is getting compensation.

 

Me and my husband are now breathing a sigh of relief. It can be done, but you have to have the balls and determination to see it through.

 

Let me know if I can be of any further help to you,

 

BB

[B3rty]

Hi BelstarBomb

 

After your s10 request did they write and acknowledge this or just remove the data?

[BelstarBomb]

they just removed the data

[Guest Alison82]

Hi I have a question

 

Can you take a company e.g. a credit card/store card/loan company to court for defaulting your account when they have an unenforceable credit agreement?

 

Sorry if this has already been answered

[BelstarBomb]

Hi Alison,

 

Frustratingly they do even when they legally can't but you can get them to remove the information especially if your agreement is unenforceable but it won't happen overnight.

 

Firstly, you need to send the data controller an S10 request. They or may not acknowledge you in writing but when I checked my credit refernce report, all info relating to this account had been removed. I'm not saying that it was all down to my S10 request but it certainly helped!

 

I'm assuming you have already CCA'd them so your next step would be also to send a SAR enclosing your £10 payment. In responding to that the CC company SHOULD supply every single piece of info that they hold on you whether it be on file on a computer, or paper documents. It should also include a fully and properly executed CCA, not an application form etc. If that isn't there, then as long as you have followed the correct procedures, you have the ammunition to use for them to remove the eronious information.

 

The SAR request can take upto 40 days so let me know how you get on then.

 

Good luck,

 

BB

[Guest Alison82]

Hi BB

 

Thanks for your reply

This has been an ongoing battle and I’m getting really annoyed with them now

Briefly I took Barclaycard to court for charges and they settled, in the mean time they closed my account when I found out I CCA’d them, they came back with a crap application for my Barclays account but they box that referred to Barclaycard has a big barcode sticker over it so you can see what it says, there is only 1 small paragraph there so I doubt all of the prescribed terms fir under this sticker. I am tempted just to start court proceedings and see what happens as I have nothing to lose and they may just give in, plus I am fed up with the calls.

Argos defaulted me and they have an unenforceable agreement too

 

Thanks

[BelstarBomb]

Gosh,

 

It makes me angry too when I see what the banks try to get away with.

 

Just clear this up for me, is Barclaycard credit card or Barclay current account have closed your account? Is there still money outstanding on the closed account and that's why they are chasing you? Have they threatened legal action to get the outstanding back?

 

BB