Scottish jurisdiction - from Mike Dailly, Govan Law centre

[BankFodder]

Hello [bankFodder]

We have been getting a lot of e-mails about which part of the UK people can raise proceedings.

 

This is clearly important for those people with claims of a thousand+ pounds (given the Scottish small claims limit of £750 and the Northern Ireland limit of £2,000; as against the English limit of £5,000). I also think England-based claimants are sometimes confused when suing Scottish banks.

 

Govan Law Centre doesn't have the resources to answer e-mails generally, so I have posted the legal position in terms of the Civil Jurisdiction & Judgments Act 1982 Act as amended in 2001. This as you may know is a law introduced from a EU Directive, and the 1982 Act applies across the UK (and indeed domestic variations of it across the EU generally).

 

The link is: Unfair UK Bank Charges | legal help from Govan Law Centre, Glasgow, UK

 

Hope this is helpful to some of your forum members.

 

Best wishes

 

Mike

 

Govan Law Centre

Glasgow

...

[charlieho]

Great Help ,

Had thought about pursuing Nationwide in England - however to quote Mike Daly

if the claim is defended you must be prepared to travel to England to present your defence.

 

have decided to go through the Scottish court system as I can't really afford to go down to Swindon

 

 

Charlie

[mikeb1]

I find this a bit confusing Mike.[iNSERT DETAILS of how charges were applied i.e. how much was charged, and how much over agreed overdraft or credit limit and how long did you exceed limit for etc.,].

 

I have the last 5 years back staements I thought it was only a case of stating that

as from 2001 your bank has charged me xxxx in bank charges give it back.

is your letter suggesting I have to detail each payment over charged month by month for that period etc? My charges are all penalties for not having enough money in my account when companies came in for direct debits etc.

 

TIA MIKE-B

[alexcraw]

From the information made available, I gather that it would be OK to sue the Bank of Scotland/Halifax for the full amount of my claim by filing the claim in a county court in Halifax?

 

Are the Bank of Scotland (since May 2004) regarded as based in England, and does the Head Office at the Mound in Edinburgh not mean that they are seated in Scotland?

 

I have charges from prior to that date on two accounts to reclaim, will the change of business terms make any difference to the claims?

 

I use the online banking and it still uses the Bank of Scotland insignia, it is also the same on the statements I recieved but the letter I got from them this morning has the Halifax brand on it and came from Birmingham.

 

Confused? I know the feeling.

[yay]

Who says you must have an address in England?

 

Unfair UK Bank Charges | legal help from Govan Law Centre, Glasgow, UK

[charlieho]

However ,

 

It is understood that the England & Wales Money Claim Online service requires a claimant to have an address in England or Wales, and therefore, if you are raising proceedings in England you would have to forward your claim to a particular County Court by post. While raising proceedings in England will entitle you to sue for a maximum of £5,000 under English small claims procedure, if the claim is defended you must be prepared to travel to England to present your defence. Accordingly, you should think very carefully about this issue, weighing up all of the pros and cons.

[jennilou]

Hi everyone,

I have a claim in with the Abbey at the moment £1300.00 without interest added. I've been through the letter stage and am now ready for court action. However, I have been dithering about whether to take them to court in England or Scotland. I have decided to do it in Scotland and here's why.

I can claim 6 years in England or 5 years in Scotland. My claim for the year 2000 adds up to around £285 without interest. If I have to defend my claim in England then with hotels, food, travel etc etc I'd probably spend at least £200 anyway. Then you have the problem of a possible test case in England and some peoples claims have been put on hold. The outcome of the English courts will not affect the Scottish courts so I thought for £285 quid it's not worth it. Also it will be so much easier to pursue it where I live. Emotionally I will be stronger in my local sheriff court than I would be in a court in England. Better the devil you know and all that. Plus, it's cheaper to take a couple of mates along for moral support!!

At the moment I still haven't submitted my court papers. I was on the phone to Abbey complaints dept today and they said an offer had been sent to me on the 12th July, so I'm just waiting to see what it says.

[charlieho]

Excellent information at the Govan Law Centre -In Particular their Statement of Claim

[familymac]

Hi there people, I just have a small question. I live in scotland and am approaching the stage where i take court action against my bank (having sent them the 1st 2 l.b.o.'s). Can anyone answer my question....although i live in scotland my branch of the Halifax bank is in Gillingham, Kent. As the Scottish small claims court only goes up to £750 and summary causes only to £1,500, can I enter my claim in the small courts in england (i think they deal with claims up to £5,000 and mine is for £3,489) with my branch being in england. If not i will have to take 3 seperate summary causes out 1 afetr the other and this seems very long and dragged out!

Help please.

[garyhay]

Check the links above regarding juristiction.

 

You can file against the bank in England is the answer from what I have read

[haircut]

I've gone through all the stages prior to action and now It's time to commence court action. I reside in Scotland and the (Sh)Abbey is based in London. My claim will be for £747 + £329 interest. This takes it to above the Scottish Small Claims limit, but below the English small claims limit. I don't want to break the claim up as this will only play into Sha's game of delays. From what I gather. I can make the claim either where I live, or Their base (London). Now london is a bit too far. So I came up with a 3rd possibility. Can anyone see a problem with this?

 

I use the Money Claim online service which (I gather) needs an English address. So I enter my parent's address which is in Carlise. I would be prepared to make trips there if necessary. Can anyone foresee any problems with this?

[Advocate]

Nothing to prevent you rasing the action in England and therefore using the MCOL service. However, should you require to go to court, which is always possible, even if for a preliminary hearing, you will have to either instruct solicitors/representative, or take a trip yourself.

[haircut]

Thanks, I've started my claim via MCOL and received a copy of the notice of issue sent to Defendant. I was surprised to see it was in the 'Nothampton' County Court. Does this mean I'd have to travel there if need be? I don't mind travelling to Carlisle as that's just accross the border, but Nothapton is a bit of a trek.

[CatiaX]

Hi I'm new to this page I've just read the message by alexcraw but can't see if you recieved a final answer. I need to claim £1200 from the halifax/bank of scotland I've recieved an offer of £650 is it worth just taking this????

 

Sorry if i just cant find the reply

[watson42]

HI everyone.

I'm fighting the Clydesdale Bank on behalf of my mum, who lives in Scotlan d. I sent them (the bank) the prelim letter on the 25 Oct & received a standard response from Neil McKirdy saying we're not paying you. 21st Nov, the LBA was sent. my mum called me last week to say a reply had been sent by Mr McKirdy apparently now "reviewing your case". I've asked her to send the letter to me so I can prepare the claim. But, as I live in England, what's the best way of doing it? Because if it DOES get as far as court then I'll find it very difficult to get to Scotland & I'm not putting my mum through that. am i easier arranging it in England?

 

total claim is fo £988.08 (obviously this will be more if I begin the claim (incl. the 8%)) I'm looking to go through the small claims as I can split it into 2 smaller ones.

 

any suggestions folks?

 

West Yorks Red

[HRB]

Can anyone assist with the legislation which applies for a business account claim in Scotland ? Does the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 apply as it would do to a personal account claim.

The account is a "Trading As " account and is not a Ltd company account ??

[fkerr1973]

Thanks for the information from the Govan law centre i found it very useful. Being new to the site i'm not sure if i understand what it means when you can only put a claim in for £750 in the Scottish Courts??? When you begin the process of requesting reimbursement from the bank i assume you request the full amount??? Loving this site guys!!!!

[debt_mountain]

I live in Scotland and have taken Citicard to court in England but the judge has said that unless I have an English address the case will remain stayed, he quotes CPR section 6.5 (2) which says

 

"

A party must give an address for service within the jurisdiction. Such address must include a full postcode, unless the court orders otherwise.

" which could mean as I am suing in England I need a service address in England?

 

He has agreed that the English court has Jurisdiction over the case but as I don't have an English service address I can go no further.

 

I have arranged for a English address (Should anyone else like to use it then PM me)

 

I have added info in my main CitiCard thread

[Gerz]

I live in Scotland and have been informed that the RBS intend to defend my case in court on Friday. I am a little lost with regards procedure and as to how best to prepare a defence, any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

[debt_mountain]

I live in Scotland and have been informed that the RBS intend to defend my case in court on Friday. I am a little lost with regards procedure and as to how best to prepare a defence, any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

are you in court in England or Scotland?

 

are you going for 8% or contractual?

 

have they paid anything back yet?

 

what was your POC in your claim form?

 

I went to court last week in Berwick (English court) and although I didn't win (due to contractual interest cockup by me) it was an excellent experience, if I can share any of that with you I will ...min thing is not to worry, if you have not been in court before it really isn't as bad as you would beleive. I really enjoyed it.

[Gerz]

I am in court in Scotland. I have asked for 8% interest and no they havent paid anything or even acknowledged my letter to them in the first instance.

What does POC stand for?

I think i will feel more comfortable presenting myself when i have a better understanding of procedure and content of discussion. Does the Sheriff ask you to speak then the banks lawyer then make a decision or is there a discussion? Can you describe what happend in your experience.

Thanks

[debt_mountain]

I am in court in Scotland. I have asked for 8% interest and no they havent paid anything or even acknowledged my letter to them in the first instance.

What does POC stand for?

I think i will feel more comfortable presenting myself when i have a better understanding of procedure and content of discussion. Does the Sheriff ask you to speak then the banks lawyer then make a decision or is there a discussion? Can you describe what happend in your experience.

Thanks

POC is part of the english claim form - particulatars of claim, basically what are you asking the court to consider, what is you claim.

 

I have not used the Scottish process yet (although I live in Scotland) so can only comment on the county Court process.

 

We both went in to the court room (no audience in attendance thankfully) Mr judge then asked the bank to explain why the felt they required to defend this claim as they had already paid out the charges so indirectly aknowledging the penelty aspect of things.

 

I kept thinking this was a business meeting and trying to butt in but Mr Judge kept SSHHing me.

 

Once the defence were finished he then asked why I beleived they should pay up.

 

He then asked each side a few questions allowing us to add to our argueement and then gave his judgement.

 

I guess the process would be similar but Mr Judge knows the wee man need guidance in the process so seemed to lead it.

 

Just remember not to be smart or overly confident and address Mr Judge as sir.

[nel3336]

does anyone know if there is an exemption path to take if on benefits within the scottish court?

 

many thanks

nel

[mjg]

I was wondering... I have got print outs of my statements for the last year. Just computer print outs from my local BoS branch not the normal statements. Over christmas I could only face checking one month to find out how much my charges were. I checked May and it was £450! ... so I suspect over the year its going to be a substantial amont ofmoney.

 

I really don't want to limit myself to £750 in a claim. So I wondered can I break upmy claim into 4 for example and claim it that way eg 1st quarter of 2006, 2nd quarter 2006 etc?

 

thanks for anyhelp in advance

[nearlyoldwoman]

hmm, thats what i would want to do too! maybe for each year etc, as one year alone is over £1,000. me and other half took this so far last year (well we actually took it as far as getting the summary cause) then we hit our big hitch! we needed a solicitor/or sherriff officer to serve the papers. whats the problem you ask?? we are in shetland, no sherriff officer here on island and i personally went into every solicitors on the island and they wouldn't touch it!! they said they were busy etc etc (not unusual for small island community to act like this-no-one ever wants to rock the boat etc) so with so much other stuff going on and time running out we stopped it in its tracks, but now we are ready to start again, i mentioned to the sherriff clerk about splitting it into smaller claims (£750) at a time but he said we couldn;t do that? i'm really not sure tho? seems nobody else here has done this yet, even the sherriff clerk told me at the time that we had prety much no chance (ha he has not been on this forum then!!!) any suggestions? could raise it in english court, but my expenses would be way over £400 to get to england from here, as you cant get off the island for less than £80! .....or i could arrange for a solicitor in aberdeen etc to serve it? which i would have to find first! any thoughts?