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    • Good thinking! I only requested the telephone hearing (in the body of the email) and will send the further note tomorrow to cover all bases!
    • @FTMDave i am attaching the photographs of the Alama park please have a look. Checking your previous post where you corrected some line and suggest some but i could not understand. Is it possible if you edit and delete irrelevant lines.    I have edited little bit but not sure what to add and what to look for   Mr XXX, of xxx and I am the Defendant against whom this claim is made. 1.1. I was the registered keeper of the vehicle XXX. 1.2. The facts in this statement come from my personal knowledge. Where they are not within my own knowledge they are true to the best of my information and belief.   INSUFFICIENT & CONFUSING SIGNAGE  This is likely to be one of your aces so will need a lot of work once you get photos.  The fleecers have also shown a plan where they claim there are signs (their WS post 12, PDF page 15 which you need to confront).   2. I confirm that i was the registered Keeper of the vehicle which is in question in this case and the vehicle was parked in Alma leisure centre Chesterfield. The vehicle was parked there because the driver went to McDonald’s for eat in (the bank statement proof exhibit 1).   3. There were no clear signs at the entrance nor in the car park, it was night time and weather was not clear as well.   3.  Even if the driver had seen the signs, they would have been extremely confusing.  A car is normally allowed to be parked for five hours, yet after midnight this is changed to one hour.  This begs the question for how long a motorist entering at 10pm for example is allowed to stay.  Is it for five hours until 3am or until 1am?   3.1. The PCN/NTK states "period of parking 00:02:05".  It is common sense that a couple of minutes was needed to enter the complex, find McDonald's and find a parking space, before the period of parking began, so it was likely the car entered the car park before midnight allowing the driver to park the car there for five hours.   4.  Even if the driver had seen the signage - they did not - the mention of a £100 charge is literally the last word on the last line of a long board of text.   4. I am not liable to the Claimant for the sum claimed, or any amount at all and this is my Witness Statement in support of my defence as already filed.     UNFAIR TERM   4.  In an interview with the local newspaper (exhibit XXX) Ms Ellie Berkeley, HX PCN administration team leader, said: “The five-hour maximum stay prevents workers from close by abusing the land and parking there for free, without using the shops on site" which makes sense.   5.  This therefore begs the question of why this limit is cut by a massive 80% after midnight when the cinema and eateries are still open.  The driver indeed ate at McDonald's.   6.  Ms Berkeley continued: "Five hours is sufficient time to visit the cinema and also eat at a restaurant".  Certainly five hours are sufficient.  One hour is not.    7.  I would maintain this is an unfair term under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 part 2 section 62 (6) ""A notice is unfair if, contrary to the requirement of good faith, it causes a significant imbalance in the parties’ rights and obligations to the detriment of the consumer".  Such a term has absolutely nothing to do with efficient management of a car park and everything to do with trying to catch diners or cinema-goers out and thus have an excuse to issue PCNs.   NO KEEPER LIABILITY   5. The Particulars of Claim do not clarify in what capacity they believe I am liable but state that the Defendant is “liable as the driver or keeper” of the vehicle. This appears to be “fishing” for liability.  Is this really in the PoCs? - you need to look and find out. Where to look on PCN letter?   The rest of your section is about the use of POFA at airports which is completely irrelevant.    Adapt LFI's suggestions re POFA and keeper liability -   First is the fact that they must have a parking period and it is quite clear that entering and leaving the car park does not constitute a parking period since some of the time the motorist is either driving around looking for a parking spot then leaving the spot and driving to the exit. All that takes time so that is one fail.   The other fail is in their wording when they are trying to transfer the liability of the alleged debt from the driver to the keeper. They are supposed to include at Schedule 4 s9 [2][f] this "(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)". That in itself makes it non compliant but the fact that they haven't got a parking period means they haven't met the applicable conditions.   PROHIBITION  This deals with no stopping cases.  Yours in not no stopping so it is completely irrelevant.   LOCUS STANDI   You have quoted a different contract in a different place with a different PPC.  You need to read and try to find holes in the contract they produced (post 12, page 15 of the PDF for anyone looking in). What shall i add here   Adapt LFI's suggestions -   Looking at their contract, the names of the signatories and their positions in their respective  companies have been redacted. You do need strict proof of who actually signed. There is no specific authorisation from the Client to allow Court action in pursuit of non payers. In section 11 which is like an addendum it states" the Company shall provide parking control" but doesn't state if that includes legal pursuit as well and it does not appear to be signed.   ILLEGAL SIGNAGE   8. After checking, I have found out that there in NO planning permission granted for said signs, therefore making them illegal as lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under the Road Traffic Acts 1962 and 1991 and no contract can be performed where criminality is concerned.   LFI's suggestion -   They are supposed to comply with the Law and the IPC code of Conduct and they have done neither. The new Private Parking Code of Practice  draws attention to it as well  s14.1 [g]  "g) responsibility for obtaining relevant consents e.g. planning or advertising consents relating to signs."   ABUSE OF PROCESS  I've cut some bits out as the CoP hadn't been published when the fleecers went after you.  Are you sure the Unicorn Food Tax in the PoCs is £60? ( I couldn't understand this)   9. The Claimant seeks recovery of the original £100 parking charge plus an additional £60 described as “contractual costs and interest” or “debt collection costs”. No further justification or breakdown has been provided as required under Civil Procedure Rule 16.4.    9.1. As part of the provisions of the Parking (Code of Practice) Act 2019, on 07/02/2022 a new Code of Practice was published by the government, designed to prevent these “rogue” traders from "ripping people off" (the minister's words) with extra charges, which have been deemed unfair (https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/privateparking-code-of-practice/private-parking-code-of-practice).    9.3. Section 9 of the new Code of Practice, regulates the matter of recovery costs: “The parking operator must not levy additional costs over and above the level of a parking charge or parking tariff as originally issued.”   9.2. Even before publication of the government’s Code of Practice, Parliament intended that private parking companies could not invent extra charges. PoFA Schedule 4, paragraph 4(5) states that “The maximum sum which may be recovered from the keeper is the amount specified in the notice to keeper” which in this case is £100.    9.4. Previous parking charge cases have found that the parking charge itself is at a level to include the costs of recovery ie: Parking Eye Ltd vs Beavis (2015) UKSC 67 which is the authority for recovery of the parking charge itself and no more, since that sum (£85) was held to already incorporate the costs of an automated private parking business model and the Supreme Court Judges held that a parking firm not in possession cannot plead any part of their case in damages. It is indisputable that an alleged “parking charge” penalty is a sum which the Supreme Court found is already inflated to more than comfortably cover all costs. The case provides a finding of fact by way of precedent, that the £85 (or up to a Trade Body ceiling of £100 depending on the parking firm) covers the costs of the letters. Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated ‘’Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones-Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates [...] in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared [...] the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.’’    9.5. In Claim numbers F0DP806M and F0DP201T, Britannia vs Crosby the courts went further in a landmark judgement in November 2019 which followed several parking charge claims being struck out in the area overseen by His Honour Judge Iain HamiltonDouglas Hughes GC, the Designated Civil Judge for Dorset, Hampshire, Isle of Wight & Wiltshire. District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ‘’It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverable under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in ParkingEye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''    9.6. The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.     Statement of Truth    Alma Leisure.pdf Alma leisure centre.pdf
    • One thing I forgot to mention is I'm in Scotland, does the process change or is it then same? 
    • A copy of that to transunion should get it fixed in 24 hrs imho.    
    • I haven't got time to read through everything you sent - but it looks superb.   I presume you didn't send the covering letter we prepared but rather a request for a telephone hearing?   What worries me is that you are cutting it ultra-fine with this not attending court stuff.  Remember if you don't attend without informing the court properly the judge is entitled to just chuck your application in the bin.  Court staff are overworked and may read your mail days late.  I would very strongly suggest sending this tomorrow before 12:30 should you hear nothing tomorrow morning:   Due to being abroad I will not be able to attend the hearing and am therefore informing the Court more than seven days prior to the hearing Pursuant to CPR 27.9 No disrespect is meant towards the Court.  I have requested a telephone hearing with the consent of the Claimant but at the time of writing have not yet received a reply.  Should the telephone hearing request not be granted I would ask that the Court decide regarding set aside based on the papers I have submitted.  
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yorkshire bank!!!!


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hi im new to this and looking for a bit of advice. i have been with the yorkshire bank for sometime and they must have had a small fortune out of me in bank charges. i would be greatfull if some1 could help me get some of it bank.

 

thanks

 

marc

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Hiya Marc, You're in the right place to get your charges back! The first thing to do is read the FAQ's and have a read around the other posts, it'll give you an idea of what to expect for a start. There's also a very helpful step by step guide. It's a good idea to spend a few days doing this to take it all in. Once your ready to begin the fight give us a shout - we're all here to help!

 

Best of luck

 

PJ

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Advice & opinions given by pjdudley69 are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional. Also visit legal seagulls for more friendly help and advice.

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Good advice from PJ there Marc. Let us know how you get on.

 

Oh and welcome and good luck by the way.:-)

 

What's Best for You?

 

 

The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

 

Alliance & Leicester Moneyclaim issued 20/1/07 £225.50 full settlement received 29 January 2007

Smile £1,075.50 + interest Email request for payment 24/5/06 received £1,000.50 14/7/06 + £20 30/7/06

Yorkshire Bank Moneyclaim issued 21/6/06 £4,489.39 full settlement received 26 January 2007

:p

 

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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thanks guys. have already been reading around. just finished reading your post pj just wondering how you were getting on. also has any1 ever made a successful claim from yorkshire bank??

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I'm just in the process of filling in my Allocation Questionnaire at the moment Marc. I don't know, myself, if anyone's been successful in their claim with YB on this site, but I don't think so as I haven't come across anything in the litigation concluded section. It does look like they're really making us fight our corner though! Don't worry though, it's a bit daunting [for me anyway ;)], but we'll get there!!

Advice & opinions given by pjdudley69 are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional. Also visit legal seagulls for more friendly help and advice.

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There may be no record on here of YB paying out yet (they probably have though), but their solicitors will be well aware of what is going on elsewhere. It looks like they are making it as long and drawn out as possible to get your money back, but I still don't think they are any more likely to actually defend the case than any other bank.

 

Just remember if they do they will have to disclose how their charges are worked out - chancing the possibility of opening the floodgates to thousands if not millions of claims. Seeing as YB charge a daily amount as well as the penalty they are even less likely to want to do this than any other bank!

 

If they do, well the admin on here will help prepare a case (being the superstars that they are) that will leave them crying into their money mountains. I've got a few choice questions about certain parts of my claim that will get their solicitor grasping for an answer.

 

Don't give up, keep going no matter what they say or how they try to fob you off, and remember we are all here to help.

Bank of Scotland: Claiming £699.47, SETTLED IN FULL at moneyclaim stage

Sisters NatWest - Claiming £1056 - SETTLED at AQ stage

Natwest CC - Claiming £804, SETTLED IN FULL at LBA stage

GF Natwest - claiming £749.33, moneyclaim filed - SETTLED IN FULL 04/08

MBNA: Claiming £150 - SETTLED IN FULL at LBA stage

HSBC: £1014 - SETTLED at LBA stage + pending charges removed

Sisters HSBC - £300 - SETTLED IN FULL at prelim stage

Yorkshire bank - claiming £496.68 - SETTLED IN FULL at court date stage.

Capital One - claiming £605.54 -SETTLED IN FULL

 

 

 

DON'T FORGET TO DONATE!

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Just to reassure everyone Yorkshire Bank where probably one of the first banks to actually suffer defeat I refer to the case of Laura Saunders v. Yorkshire Bank (2005)

Guardian Unlimited | The Guardian | Can Bob fix it? For Laura, he can

 

I have just submitted my Allocation Questionnaire and will be awaiting their demise

 

Just don't give up hope

 

Geoff

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Thanks for that Geoff. That is real encouragement for those of us that YB are trying to intimidate at the moment.

 

What's Best for You?

 

 

The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

 

Alliance & Leicester Moneyclaim issued 20/1/07 £225.50 full settlement received 29 January 2007

Smile £1,075.50 + interest Email request for payment 24/5/06 received £1,000.50 14/7/06 + £20 30/7/06

Yorkshire Bank Moneyclaim issued 21/6/06 £4,489.39 full settlement received 26 January 2007

:p

 

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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hi again thats for all the advice in the post!! just another quick question yb charge 8 pound a day for being over my overdraft am i able to claim that back aswell

 

 

thanks again

 

marc

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You claim for the £8 per day unauthorised o/d charges, the £20 [is it per month] in addition to that, any unautorised fees, unpaid cheque fees etc. Basically, any charges they've made to your account, which you haven't agreed as part of a service. Hope this helps

Advice & opinions given by pjdudley69 are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional. Also visit legal seagulls for more friendly help and advice.

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