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CCA Request letter - Overview of situation and clarification needed


Poolio
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  • 1 month later...
  • 1 month later...
Hi Poolio,

could you please share these 'shady practices' with us? An inside scoop on these people could be invaluable.

 

Sorry for the very slow reply! Were you researching for Panorama by any chance!? :wink:

 

My friend told me that phone operators were encouraged to scare people, by threatening legal action they were never going to take and were always told to get as much money as they could from people even if they couldn't afford it, standard stuff really.

 

I can't remember everything anymore but I know he also said some people had set up big direct debits amounts, had finished paying off their debts, 1st Credit knew this but never cancelled the transactions instead continuing to receive payments until the customer realised!

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There you have it - straight from the horse's mouth.

 

My friend told me that phone operators were encouraged to scare people, by threatening legal action they were never going to take and were always told to get as much money as they could from people even if they couldn't afford it, standard stuff really.

 

Standard stuff it may be, but thousands still fall for it every single day. I know we sound like a broken record on here at times, but if you ever needed to know WHY you should never engage these muppets on the telephone, you know now.

 

I can't remember everything anymore but I know he also said some people had set up big direct debits amounts, had finished paying off their debts, 1st Credit knew this but never cancelled the transactions instead continuing to receive payments until the customer realised!

 

Direct debits should NEVER be set up with any organization you cannot trust. And I can't think of any organization in this world I trust less than debt collectors, unless you consider that shower in Westminster to be an organization.

 

I would like to ask the Westminster Wasters what benefit they think the electorate they are responsible to gains from the existence of organizations which indulge in such practices.

 

SH

All opinions of ScabHunter are offered in good faith and believed to be accurate and true. Please note, though, that I have no legal training and am human like the rest of us (except the DCA trolls).

 

If you have received court papers, PLEASE POST EARLY. We can help, but only if we are within the timescales.

 

I am happy to receive PMs (and friendship requests!), but if you want me to look at your thread please leave a link to it.

 

If I have been helpful, please feel free to click the old scales!

 

____________________________________________________

 

LIGHT RELIEF - SCABHUNTER STYLE

 

A reply to a DCA troll with a limited vocabulary

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bear-garden/131409-cheekiness-towards-dca-199.html#post1840093

 

A template letter accepting a full and final settlement

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/104668-cabot-windywoo-4.html#post1813490

 

A reply to ARE letter dated 13th November 20088

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/172657-mbna-letter-asking-me.html#post1863523

 

A reply to a naughty DCA suggesting that the alleged debtor was ignoring the poor dears, and promising a nice social visit

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/167422-help-needed-re-letters-3.html#post1850119

 

 

 

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I can't remember everything anymore but I know he also said some people had set up big direct debits amounts, had finished paying off their debts, 1st Credit knew this but never cancelled the transactions instead continuing to receive payments until the customer realised!

 

Further to this my friend told me that one customer realised that he had been paying back 1st Credit too much and had cleared his balance and also paid a good few hundred pounds extra, he asked for it back and 1st Credit refused!

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Further to this my friend told me that one customer realised that he had been paying back 1st Credit too much and had cleared his balance and also paid a good few hundred pounds extra, he asked for it back and 1st Credit refused!

 

I can quite believe it. Is it not time, really well past time, that someone in authority began to question whether this is the right way to run an ethical business?

 

And that doesn't even consider the simple fact that this entire "business model" produces no products or services of any value to anyone, and that anyone involved in it is simply living at the expense of everyone else.

 

SH

All opinions of ScabHunter are offered in good faith and believed to be accurate and true. Please note, though, that I have no legal training and am human like the rest of us (except the DCA trolls).

 

If you have received court papers, PLEASE POST EARLY. We can help, but only if we are within the timescales.

 

I am happy to receive PMs (and friendship requests!), but if you want me to look at your thread please leave a link to it.

 

If I have been helpful, please feel free to click the old scales!

 

____________________________________________________

 

LIGHT RELIEF - SCABHUNTER STYLE

 

A reply to a DCA troll with a limited vocabulary

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bear-garden/131409-cheekiness-towards-dca-199.html#post1840093

 

A template letter accepting a full and final settlement

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/104668-cabot-windywoo-4.html#post1813490

 

A reply to ARE letter dated 13th November 20088

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/172657-mbna-letter-asking-me.html#post1863523

 

A reply to a naughty DCA suggesting that the alleged debtor was ignoring the poor dears, and promising a nice social visit

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/167422-help-needed-re-letters-3.html#post1850119

 

 

 

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  • 4 weeks later...
Hi, I sent 9 creditors CCA requests last week and have received a few responses and just wondered whether I deal with them or just leave it and count down the 12 days and then 30 more so that the debts become unenforceable.

 

4) Link Financial - In my letter to them and on ALL my CCA requests I said that the £1 postal order was in no way to be used to pay off any part of my debt yet in my response from LINK they have written ' No administration charge has been applied to your account at this time and therefore any payment made with your request has been applied to reduce your outstanding debt. However where cost is incurred by link for the provision of any statements by the Vendor we will pass these charges on to you.'

 

Do I need to send a letter to remind them that the £1 I sent is a statutory fee and how do I ensure the £1 postal order I sent is used for the correct purpose?

 

LINK UPDATE

I made a CCA request to Link on August 5th 2008 and since then have received no documents from either LINK or MBNA. However, on 20th November 2008 I received a letter from Link saying 'YOU HAVE BEEN SERVED A NOTICE' which goes onto say I need to pay them and all the standard stuff. For the past fortnight they have also been ringing me up at home and being very obnoxious.

 

I understand that if they don't provide a valid, enforceable agreement then they shouldn't be pursuing the debt? Do I need to send them a letter telling them that they failed to provide any CCA document and therefore should cease to contact me about this debt?

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As well as making a formal complaint to TS, the OFT, Link and your MP you should send them this by recorded delivery. (amend to suit)

 

Dear Cretins,

 

 

Account no xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

 

 

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

 

 

Thank you for your letter dated **********, the contents of which are noted

 

You attention is drawn to the fact that this account is subject to a serious dispute. On xx/xx/2007 I requested DCA NAME supply me a copy of the credit agreement covering this account pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act 1974 section 78. To date DCA NAME have failed to comply with my request and have totally ignored my written reminders sent via recorded delivery of this fact. Without production of the said agreement I am unable to assess if I am indeed liable for any alleged debt to you or DCA NAME, nor does it give me any chance to evaluate whether any original agreement was ‘properly executed’ as required by the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

 

For the avoidance of any doubt I have included section 78(1) and 78(6) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, which states…

 

78 Duty to give information to debtor under running-account credit agreement

(1) The creditor under a regulated agreement for running-account credit, within the prescribed period after receiving a request in writing to that effect from the debtor and payment of a fee of [£1], shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it, together with a statement signed by or on behalf of the creditor showing, according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer,—

(a) the state of the account, and

(b) the amount, if any, currently payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor, and

© the amounts and due dates of any payments which, if the debtor does not draw further on the account, will later become payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor.

(6) If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—

(a) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement;

 

 

Clearly as no agreement was supplied on request, this in no way complies with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and I now draw your attention to section 78 subsection 6 which states If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement;

 

Clearly this is a situation as described in s78(6) Consumer Credit Act 1974 and the debt is unenforceable at this time. In addition, I draw your attention to section 127 (3) Consumer Credit Act 1974 which states

 

127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

 

This is backed by case law from the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (House of Lords) the highest court in the land. Your attention is drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the consumer credit act 1974 the agreement cannot be enforced.

 

 

To clarify s61(1) states

 

(1)A regulated agreement is not properly executed unless—

 

(a) a document in the prescribed form itself containing all the prescribed terms and conforming to regulations under section 60(1) is signed in the prescribed manner both by the debtor or hirer and by or on behalf of the creditor or owner, and

(b) the document embodies all the terms of the agreement, other than implied terms, and

© The document is, when presented or sent to the debtor or hirer for signature, in such a state that all its terms are readily legible

 

In addition the prescribed terms referred to in section 60 CCA1974 are contained in schedule 6 column 2 of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) and are inter alia: - A term stating the credit limit or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit, A term stating the rate of any interest on the credit to be provided under the agreement and A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following—

 

1.Number of repayments;

2.Amount of repayments;

3.Frequency and timing of repayments;

4.Dates of repayments;

5.The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable

 

 

Therefore based upon the Consumer Credit Act 1974 this debt as it stands is unenforceable and should this proceed to litigation, a court is precluded from making an enforcement order under section 127(3) unless a true copy of the signed agreement is produced.

 

At the point where this account entered into the default situation as described in s78 (6) CCA 1974 no other charges are allowed to be added until such time as DCA NAME become compliant with my request. As DCA NAME are still not in compliance with my request I insist that the following takes place with immediate effect

• All charges levied since ******** 2007 be removed from the account and further charges cease until such time as ******* comply fully with my original request or such time as a court makes an enforcement order

• All entries which refer to missed payments be removed from my credit file

• All collection activities by your company cease with immediate effect until ******** comply with my request from ********* 2007 or such time as a court makes an enforcement order

In addition, I draw your attention to the Office of Fair Trading’s guidance on debt collection

 

The OFT guidance which was issued July 2003 (updated December 2006) relating to debt collections and what the OFT considers unfair, I have enclosed an excerpt from page 5 of the guidance which states

 

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

 

h. Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment

 

What I Require.

 

I require that you send me a true copy of the executed agreement as required by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. If you are unable to supply the requested documentation because no such agreement is in existence I require written clarification as such.

 

I require that you comply with my request within 7 days of the date of this letter. I will not correspond any further with you until I either receive a copy of the requested documents as laid down in section 78(1) CCA 74 or clarification that such agreement doesn’t exist. I am advised that should you persist in pursuing this debt ignoring the above information you will be in breach of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40 as well

 

No other correspondence will be accepted

 

Should you attempt litigation it will be vigorously defended and the failure to supply documentation under the CCA 1974 is a complete defence to any legal action and your actions will be vexatious and unlawful

 

 

I trust this out lines the situation

 

Regards

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  • 1 month later...

I have received a signed application form from 1st credit re: a marbles debt.

 

However I am very suspiscious of the wording of the letter, it says:

 

We attach an edited copy of the signed agreement in respect of the above account and would ask for your comments.

 

a) If you confirm that this is your signature we will of course send you a complete copy of the relevant document. We would also invite your proposals for settling the outstanding debt.

 

b) If this is not your signature we would ask you to provide our office with a copy of your signature from an official document (such as a driving licence/passport) to substantiate your claim. Please be assured that the matter will be investigated further.

 

Am I right in thinking this is complete rubbish and that in My CCA request they should send me a 'complete' copy and not wait for me to prove my signature? Also they are out of order asking me for a scan of my passport?

 

It seems to me that as soon as I verify or send them my proper signature they'll put it on a proper agreement and send to me!?

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Correct....send them nothing, and I urge you to report them to the OFT....the request is quite clear, you do NOT have to send them anything. (1st Credit are under some tight scrutiny at the moment by the OFT so PLEASE do complain) Have you tried sending a request or sending a subject access request to the original creditor to check they haven't done anything potentially suspect ?

 

What actually did they send you ? can you photo/scan it and post it up on here ? (minus the personal details) use www.photobucket.com (free) and there is a tutorial here if required - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bear-garden/165941-photobucket-video-tutorial.html

PLEASE NOTE - I am not a legal expert, what is stated is my own opinion and from what I have learnt from this forum and my own experiences.

 

DEBT COLLECTION LETTER/SAR/AGREEMENT TEMPLATES ARE HERE - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?65-legislation

 

IF WE HAVE BEEN HELPFUL -PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE GIVE A DONATION TO HELP US TO CONTINUE HELPING YOU

 

I AM HAPPY TO RECEIVE PM's AND I WILL RESPOND IF I FEEL I CAN ASSIST BUT WHEN YOU DO CAN YOU PLEASE PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD ON WHICH YOU WOULD LIKE ME TO COMMENT - THANK YOU

 

IMPORTANT - If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.

Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Private message facilities are offered for users to communicate issues that are/or could be seen to be inappropriate for posting on the main forum.Site rules explain this in more detail.

If you are approached by private message with a view to asking you to visit another website,please inform the site team via the report icon.

 

Forum rules - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/forum-rules-please-read/9-forum-rules-please-read.html

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If they are unsure it is you....then they should NOT be asking for money from you....

PLEASE NOTE - I am not a legal expert, what is stated is my own opinion and from what I have learnt from this forum and my own experiences.

 

DEBT COLLECTION LETTER/SAR/AGREEMENT TEMPLATES ARE HERE - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?65-legislation

 

IF WE HAVE BEEN HELPFUL -PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE GIVE A DONATION TO HELP US TO CONTINUE HELPING YOU

 

I AM HAPPY TO RECEIVE PM's AND I WILL RESPOND IF I FEEL I CAN ASSIST BUT WHEN YOU DO CAN YOU PLEASE PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD ON WHICH YOU WOULD LIKE ME TO COMMENT - THANK YOU

 

IMPORTANT - If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.

Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Private message facilities are offered for users to communicate issues that are/or could be seen to be inappropriate for posting on the main forum.Site rules explain this in more detail.

If you are approached by private message with a view to asking you to visit another website,please inform the site team via the report icon.

 

Forum rules - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/forum-rules-please-read/9-forum-rules-please-read.html

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Correct....send them nothing, and I urge you to report them to the OFT....the request is quite clear, you do NOT have to send them anything. (1st Credit are under some tight scrutiny at the moment by the OFT so PLEASE do complain) Have you tried sending a request or sending a subject access request to the original creditor to check they haven't done anything potentially suspect ?

 

What actually did they send you ? can you photo/scan it and post it up on here ? (minus the personal details) use www.photobucket.com (free) and there is a tutorial here if required - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bear-garden/165941-photobucket-video-tutorial.html

 

I have put uploaded the pics to photobucket (links below). I got a call from them tonight also, I refused to confirm security details but the bloke seemed odd, he said something about 'we have to warn you to be careful of fraud' though I wasn't really listening. Another thing that strikes me about the letter I got from them is the paper it is printed on is quite thin and of poor quality, it seems like a photocopy.

 

Anyway, here is what they sent with my details blocked out:-

 

Letter:

http://i513.photobucket.com/albums/t336/Poolio22/1st%20Credit/1stCreditLetter.jpg

 

Agreement:

http://i513.photobucket.com/albums/t336/Poolio22/1st%20Credit/1stCreditApp.jpg

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subbed

Check out the threads below for updates on the DCA's that I am dealing with.

 

GE Money/CL Finance/Howard Cohen & Co - AND - Aktiv Kapital/Appleton Massey Solicitors - IN COURT

Cabot x 2 for Vanquis & Hitatchi - DEFAULTED ON CCA REQUEST

Lowell for Capital One - CANCELLED DEBT!! Trying to get Default removed now

Moorcroft x 2 for Halifax Loan & Bank Account - RETURNED TO HALIFAX

Wescot for Halifax Bank Account - RETURNED TO HALIFAX

Cap Quest for Argos Card - RETURNED TO ARGOS

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The app form is unenforceable,as 42man says dont send them anything, see what if anything they come up with next.

Please note i have no legal training any advice i give comes from my own experience and from what i have learned on this site

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  • 5 months later...
you only have to look at our legal success forum, you will see that we are doing it for free here

 

there is nothing that these companies claim to be able to do that you cant do your self, you just need to read this site

 

Hi there

Would someone please be able to point me in the right direction of these forms, cos ive been looking around on this site and i havent a clue where im going :)

Apologies if ive been looking in the wrong place

 

Thanx Shirleyx

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It depends what the debts are to what you need to send.

Anthrax alert at debt collectors caused by box of doughnuts

 

Make sure you do not post anything which identifies you. Although we can remove certain things from the site unless it's done in a timely manner everything you post will appear in Google cache & we do not have any control over that.

 

Vir prudens non contra ventum mingit

 

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

17 Port & Maritime Regiment RCT

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  • 1 year later...

Hi there! I had a loan taken out as an unsecured professional studies loan for £14000 in 2006. A year and a half ago i was supposed to start paying it back but could not afford it. I tried many times at the bank to discuss lower payments and after many attempts, they couldn't put me through to the right department saying that we dont do the professional studies loans no more. One kind gentleman put a stop on the standing order and said, let them contact you. A few days ago, they caught up with me. I unfortunately failed my exams and am struggling very much. Am I right to say that pre april 2007, loans were not signed by banks making them invalid, does that still stand? whats the worst that can happen? Is this loan enforceable?

 

you only have to look at our legal success forum, you will see that we are doing it for free here

 

there is nothing that these companies claim to be able to do that you cant do your self, you just need to read this site

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Hi there! I had a loan taken out as an unsecured professional studies loan for £14000 in 2006. A year and a half ago i was supposed to start paying it back but could not afford it. I tried many times at the bank to discuss lower payments and after many attempts, they couldn't put me through to the right department saying that we dont do the professional studies loans no more. One kind gentleman put a stop on the standing order and said, let them contact you. A few days ago, they caught up with me. I unfortunately failed my exams and am struggling very much. Am I right to say that pre april 2007, loans were not signed by banks making them invalid, does that still stand? whats the worst that can happen? Is this loan enforceable?

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