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    • Thank you for the above Andy. I’ve not stated to Shoosmiths that I have not signed the agreement, however at the time I didn’t really understand the agreement, it was just put in from of me, and told to sign. I did also sign a document saying it did not require legal representation.   What would you suggest as my next steps? 
    • Barclays have finally responded to my friend on this asking for  Date of birth, all previous addresses, any former names and account numbers she has.   I don’t think my friend included a council tax bill (I did when I sent my Dad’s DSAR to Barclays last week!).   Do they need all this info?
    • There is no statutory provision requiring a witness in these circumstances to be independent. However the purpose of having a witness is so that they can provide unbiased evidence of what was signed and by whom, if required in the future. Therefore a witness should be independent and it is best practice to interpret this widely. A witness should not be the signatory’s spouse or partner or a family member, and should not have a personal interest in the provisions of the document. Case law has confirmed that a party to the document cannot act as a witness to another party’s signature. It is advisable that a witness is aged eighteen or over.   More importantly ...One of the distinguishing factors about the execution of a deed as compared to a contract is that a deed must be “delivered”. Delivery fixes the date from which the executing party is bound by the deed, and once delivered, a deed is irrevocable in the absence of an express right of revocation. At common law, a deed is delivered when a party expresses an intention to be bound by the deed, even if it retains possession of the document.   The best way to deal with delivery of a deed is to have clear wording in the document setting out that the deed will be delivered on the date appearing at the head of the document. Where a deed is executed by a company, legislation provides that it is presumed to be delivered on execution, unless a contrary intention is proved. There is no such presumption for execution by an individual. Clear wording in the document confirming the position on delivery will avoid confusion and unintended consequences.   https://www.osborneclarke.com/insights/signed-sealed-delivered-execution-of-deeds-and-documents-and-how-it-might-go-wrong/
    • ok increased to 3.5mb now and numbered and titled each page   FYI- the quality of the terms are unreadable even before scanning   thanks jpg2pdf(1).pdf
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    • Future Comms is a Big Con. How to get out of it. Read more at https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/417058-future-comms-is-a-big-con-how-to-get-out-of-it/
        • Thanks
      • 4 replies
    • Future Comms issues. Read more at https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/416504-future-comms-issues/
      • 5 replies
    • This is a bit of a lengthy one but I’ll summerise best as possible.
       
      THIS IS HOW THE PHONECALL WENT 
       
      I was contacted by future comms by phone, they stated that they could beat any phone contract I have , (I am a limited company but just myself that needs a business phone and I am the only worker) 
      I told future comms my deal, £110 per month with a phone and a virtual landline, they confirmed that they could beat that, £90 per month with a phone , virtual landline  they also confirmed they would pay Vodafone (previous provider) the termination fee. As I am in business, naturally I was open to making a deal. So we proceeded. 
      Future comms then revealed that the contract would be with PLAN.COM and the airtime would be provided by 02, I instantly told them that this would break the deal as I have poor 02 signal in the house where I live as my partner is on 02 and constantly complaining about bad signal
      the salesman assured me he would send a signal booster box out with the phone so I would have perfect signal.
      so far so good.....
      i then explained this is the only mobile phone I use for business and pleasure, so therefore I didn’t want any disconnection time in the slightest between the switchover from Vodafone to 02
      the salesman then confirmed that the existing phone would only be disconnected once the new phone was switched on.
      so far so good....
      • 14 replies
    • A shocking story of domestic and economic abuse compounded by @BarclaysUKHelp ‏ bank complicity – coming soon @A_Gentle_Woman. Read more at https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/415737-a-shocking-story-of-domestic-and-economic-abuse-compounded-by-barclaysukhelp-%E2%80%8F-bank-complicity-%E2%80%93-coming-soon-a_gentle_woman/
      • 0 replies
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A REPORT FROM THE OFT........

BBC NEWS | Business | Bank accounts 'not working well'

 

GO TO THEIR WEBSITE TO SEE THE FULL REPORT

 

:p


Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.Thus, what is of supreme importance in war is to attack the enemy's strategy. What is essential in war is victory, not prolonged operations.

 

Sun Tzu 'The art of war'

POST THE LETTER AND SIGN THE PETITION AT POST 88 ON THE LINK BELOW TO GET THE OFT TO INVESTIGATE THE CRA'S

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/campaign/153512-campaign-oft-against-unfair.html

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And this take a look at this nugget:

The lack of visibility of insufficient funds charges to consumers has reduced the incentive for the banks to compete on these aspects. As a result some banks appear to see insufficient funds charges in particular as an attractive way to generate additional revenue without affecting demand for their accounts. Insufficient funds charges have increased by an average of 17 per cent in real terms between 2003 and 2007. The average daily unarranged overdraft balance over the year9 in 2006 was £680 million but involved some £1.5 billion in paid item and maintenance fees. This is a return of over 220 per cent on the balances.

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The OFT will spend the coming months engaging with banks and consumer groups

 

That's CAG then ....

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Guest naffedoff
That's CAG then ....

 

Please don't forget ALL the other sites that have done sterling work.

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The consumer groups main ones consulted will be Which and CAB etc. All stakeholders, which includes CAG and other consumer type forums and groups, have an opportunity to respond in the consultation document.

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£152: The amount the OFT says the banks made from each active bank account in 2006, a figure the British Bankers' Association (BBA) says is "slightly contrived".

 

64 million: The number of personal bank accounts in the UK, of which about 54 million are estimated to be active.

 

£152 x 54 million comes to around £8.3 billion and £2.6 billion is from charges, about 32%.

Edited by tifo

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To answer tifo, NO that;s not CAG, PAG, PC,LB, MSE or CCS. No doubt those groups can of course make a contribution/response to the report.(will take a look at the OFT site later).

Its designated consumer groups including Consumer Direct, CAB.


.

FSA Waiver on Bank Charges:http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/Doing/Regulated/Notify/Waiver/pdf/dir_quart_0709.pdf

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Moved here


Have a happy and prosperous 2013 by avoiiding Payday loans. If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Advice offered by Martin3030 is not supported by any legal training or qualification.Members are advised to use the services of fully insured legal professionals when needed.

 

 

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So in light of this report, what now for the defences that bankers have entered for claims under the old "to cover our admin costs" T&Cs?

I have picked out some quotes & figures from the OFT report below. This little collection could almost suggest that some banks may have knowingly lied to the courts in their written defence where they maintained that the charges were purely the cost of administering whatever triggered them.

If that's true, then banks spent 31% of all their income administering unarranged overdrafts?

 

A combination of complexity and a lack of transparency means that consumers and competition are focused almost exclusively on more visible fees, and not on the less visible elements such as insufficient funds charges and forgone interest – despite the fact that these make up the vast bulk of banks’ revenues.

 

Banks earned over 85 per cent of their revenues on PCAs from two sources: net interest income from credit and debit balances (£4.6 billion), and levying charges associated with insufficient funds (£2.6 billion).

 

During the course of this market study, the OFT has seen banks’ internal documents on the level of charges that include statements such as: ‘in order to maximise fee revenue, whilst maintaining our competitive position, selective increases in [insufficient funds charges] are proposed’, and ‘Increasing insufficient funds] charges will have less impact on our marketing position… due to its lower visibility.’

 

 

We found that the banks earn over 30 per cent of all their revenues from insufficient funds charges.

 

Although banks apply charges in different ways the unit price for charges, where applied, is similar across suppliers. Overall the level of individual charges has gone up considerably in the last seven years whether adjusted for inflation or not. This is particularly the case for paid item fees, which increased from an average of £16 to £28, a nominal increase of 75 per cent over the period.

 

 

The 16 banks lent £680 million as unarranged overdrafts in 2006.

If the insufficient funds charges (excluding charges for unpaid items) of £1.5 billion in 2006 were treated as the cost of borrowing on the £0.68 billion average unarranged overdraft balance over the year for the 16 banks, we estimate that the annual interest rate would be more than 220 per cent. While short term loans are distinct in their short duration and can be expensive to administer, this level of charging compares unfavourably with many similar forms of lending such as credit cards and personal loans.

Edited by Gez
  • Haha 1

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Gez, the wording maximising fee income is one I have seen, and while it sounds like a bank being a bunch of greedy beggars, it was about making sure the correct fee for the correct service is keyed, for example, Safe custody in branches, copy statement fee, stopped cheque fees etc,etc. The context of the wording is such that you could not consider it to be within the confines of bank penalty charges.


.

FSA Waiver on Bank Charges:http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/Doing/Regulated/Notify/Waiver/pdf/dir_quart_0709.pdf

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Gez, the wording maximising fee income is one I have seen, and while it sounds like a bank being a bunch of greedy beggars, it was about making sure the correct fee for the correct service is keyed, for example, Safe custody in branches, copy statement fee, stopped cheque fees etc,etc. The context of the wording is such that you could not consider it to be within the confines of bank penalty charges.

No problem with that, but it is as clear as a dogs sensitives what context "maximising fees revenue" is used within that paragraph.

That is really only a small part of it. Even without those comments, the banks want us and the courts to believe that they spent over 30% of their total income on administering instances of unarranged overdrafts.

So the costs of running all those thousands of branches, call centres and marketing would be separate from these costs. Its as black & white as that. Either: a) the truth is absent, b) call centres, branches & marketing is free, c) banks have a very small profit margin.

 

What bothers me more is that this report states pretty much that there was no point in examining banker's costs. WHY NOT? This was the basis of their defence and the very legality of their charges hinges on an examination of their costs. Don't they have a similar system to Cynthesis?

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i found this.....you can read the full article at the web address at the bottom of this post..

 

Customs bank on the Halifax

by Technical Department at 00:00 23/07/01 (Technical Articles)

Article by Stanley Dencher, Senior Technical Editor, Croner.CCH Group

Ltd, published in the July 2001 issue of Tax Adviser.

Customs are apparently involved with several test cases in the

campaign against VAT avoidance. One such case is Halifax plc No.

17,124.

 

The Halifax's supplies are generally VAT exempt because it is a bank

(VATA 1994 Sch 9 Grp 5). During the relevant periods, its VAT recovery

rate was under five per cent. For the purpose of its banking business

it needed to construct call centres. If it had directly constructed

the call centres, most of the VAT on the construction costs would have

stuck. However, it used a scheme which involved three other companies

and which used the standard method of calculating a partically exempt

person's recoverable VAT. If the scheme had worked, the Halifax and

the three companies would together have recovered all of such VAT

which amounted to over £5m. Each of the three companies was separately

VAT-registered and was a subsidiary of the Halifax.

 

 

CIOT - Customs bank on the Halifax

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sorry, I put that post on the wrong forum. it is about tax avoidance by the banks when they set up call centres.

:oops:

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