Help

[pompeyfaith]

Sorry about the double threads perhaps a mod can sort that for me

 

Thanks

[saintly_1]

Threads merged

[pompeyfaith]

Thanks for that saintly now they have 14 days to reply to my CPR is that 14 days from posting which was yesterday ot 14 days from them recieving it which was before 1 pm today ?

 

Thanks again for all your help

 

Regards

 

Pompeyfaith

Edited November 30, 2008 by pompeyfaith

[aloysiush]

Sorry, but forget about the Pt 18 request and the CPR letter, at this time they serve no purpose.

 

Start preparing your defence and Pt 20 claim (counterclaim for charges/PPI). Your problem will be that you do not appear to have a defence to the entire claim and so they may proceed to apply for summary judgment in relation to that part which you are unable to reasonably dispute.

 

You will need to muddy the waters with the defence to avoid the above and get to the disclosure stage, whereupon they will have to show their hand (all the docs upon which they intend to rely). You will then find out if they have the agreement as they will have to disclose the same and you can then ask for a copy. Any competent solicitor will ignore the CPR and Pt 18 letters - they are what is known as 'noise' and are premature and indeed technically defective. I appreciate they have been prepared with best intentions, but just put the claimant on notice as to what your about. Far better to ambush after disclosure and sicken them, with a well informed and reasoned argument as to why they should 'drop dead', having wasted their time and clients money.

 

Lets see the POC and we will prepare your defence and Pt.20 claim.

[creditcardmug]

Sorry, but forget about the Pt 18 request and the CPR letter, at this time they serve no purpose.

 

Start preparing your defence and Pt 20 claim (counterclaim for charges/PPI). Your problem will be that you do not appear to have a defence to the entire claim and so they may proceed to apply for summary judgment in relation to that part which you are unable to reasonably dispute.

 

You will need to muddy the waters with the defence to avoid the above and get to the disclosure stage, whereupon they will have to show their hand (all the docs upon which they intend to rely). You will then find out if they have the agreement as they will have to disclose the same and you can then ask for a copy. Any competent solicitor will ignore the CPR and Pt 18 letters - they are what is known as 'noise' and are premature and indeed technically defective. I appreciate they have been prepared with best intentions, but just put the claimant on notice as to what your about. Far better to ambush after disclosure and sicken them, with a well informed and reasoned argument as to why they should 'drop dead', having wasted their time and clients money.

 

Lets see the POC and we will prepare your defence and Pt.20 claim.

 

Hi, up to now we have sent a CPR request to the claimant and filed the AOS, then waited for claimant to reply, before filing a defence.

Are you saying we should now wait until the AQ stage , and ask the court toorder disclosure of the documents?. If so would the court not think we were not following the correct procedures re CPR?

[pompeyfaith]

poc is here although im totally confused now have i taken the wrong route i thought after reading various treads iwas doing right i hope someone can really help me here as aloysiush has thrown a spanner in the works now ph and im disputing the whole claim because not only have they been taking PPI for which it would not pay out due to a stroke i had but also the rampant interest charges that keep going up

 

courtpaper.jpg - Image - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

 

Regards

 

Pompeyfaith

Edited July 18, 2008 by pompeyfaith

[creditcardmug]

poc is here although im totally confused now have i taken the wrong route i thought after reading various treads iwas doing right i hope someone can really help me here as aloysiush has thrown a spanner in the works now ph and im disputing the whole claim because not only have they been taking PPI for which it would not pay out due to a stroke i had but also the rampant interest charges that keep going up

 

courtpaper.jpg - Image - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

 

Regards

 

Pompeyfaith

 

See above, i have asked aloy for an explanation

[creditcardmug]

The POC is vague and insufficiently particularised, no LBA no agreement, the list goes on plenty for your defence, lets see what comes from your CPR request

[pompeyfaith]

i have also not recieved the S.A.R i requested from MBNA not even my £10 back which is another reason for sending the CPR18

 

Regards

 

Pompeyfaith

Edited November 30, 2008 by pompeyfaith

[aloysiush]

OK. The POC are indeed vague, but that is because of the Northampton procedure. They should include the date of the agreement, in any event. They do no not have to refer to an LBA.

 

Not using the 'CPR' letter or the Pt.18 request does not mean you are breaching the rules. It is not a requirement to send any such letters. The claimant must prove its claim. You have to prove nothing!

 

The procedure (generally) for litigation is as follows:-

 

1. Claim served (inc POC)

2. AOS filed

3. File/serve defence

4. Allocation questionnaires filed

5. Directions given

6. Disclosure/Inspection

7. Exchange statements

8. Listing

9. Trial

 

You should wait until disclosure and see what it brings before sending letters for specific documents. The claimant will give you a list of the documents they intend to use to prove its claim. This will include, logically, the agreement, statements, default notice, correspondence common to the parties etc. You, at that stage can ask for inspection (copies of their docs). Theoretically, they cannot use any documents at trial not disclosed.

 

You will also have to provide a list of documents upon which you intend to rely (not precedents, but actual docs - you probably won't have any other than a few letters) and provide inpection of any docs they want from you.

 

So you see, the letters referred to above are only asking for that which you will be entitled to and some you are not. The letters request docs which relate to matters not central to the issues between the parties and are not proportionate to that in issue. The letters are a 'fishing expedition' and that will not be allowed by the court. Indeed they probably breach the rules (CPR) and be considered an attempt to cloud the 'true' issues.

 

If the claimant does not disclose sufficient docs to prove its claim, they probably don't have them. You should at that stage write a short letter requesting the same and in default invite them to discontinue the action. You can make an application (N.244) to the court compelling the claimant to comply with disclosure and in default the claim be struck out. This is nuanced and not for this breif explanation.

 

Do not send letters to the claimants solicitor, which you probably do not understand. Trust me, generally, they find the content amusing. The letters disclose a misconceived understanding of the Civil Procedure Rules and if they have the essential docs in their possession, they will string you along and hit you with a big bill for costs at trial, if the matter is on the fast/multi track.

 

The profession is chuckling at a recent £60K order for costs against 2 claimants known on this site, who used versions of the docs and arguments regularly referred to herein. Some will know the case to which I refer.

Edited July 18, 2008 by aloysiush

[pompeyfaith]

Thanks for that, but in 3 you say serve defence but how can i do that when i have no agreement or anything i.e MBNA has not furnished my S.A.R yet ?

Should i send another letter to MBNA as the 40 days are up

 

Regards

 

 

Pompeyfaith

Edited November 30, 2008 by pompeyfaith

[AndyOrch]

Hi

 

 

You would file/serve your defence as Aloysiush advised in another thread

 

 

 

See below

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Excellent advise BTW Aloysiush on your postings

 

 

Regards

Andy:cool:

Edited July 19, 2008 by Andyorch
edited didnt see the next posting

[aloysiush]

Here is the defence:

Defence

 

1. The particulars of claim are vague and do not provide sufficient detail to enable the defendant to plead effectivley or at all. By way of example the claimant has failed to confirm the date of agreement upon which the cause of action is based.

 

2. Prior to the issue of the action the claimant was requested to disclose documents relating to the alleged debt and/or agreement. The claimant failed and/or refused so to do.

 

3. The documents described above were the subject of a request pursuant to the Data Protection Act 1998 and/or the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

4. In all the circumstances the defendant denies being indebted to the claimant as alleged or at all.

 

Part 20 Claim

 

5. The defendant/Part 20 claimant intends to claim sums paid to the claimant /Part 20 defendant in relation to a Payment Protection Insurance policy, sold by the claimant/Part 20 defendant to the defendant/Part 20 claimantwithout qualification or appropriate advice as required by the Financial Services Authority et al. The claimant/Part 20 defendant acted as agent/broker on behalf of the insurance company issuing the policy to the detriment of the defendant/Part 20 claimant.

 

6.The defendant/Part 20 claimant refers to paragraphs 2 and 3 above, As a consequence of the claimants/Part 20 defendants failure and/or refusal to provide documents, the defendant/Part 20 claimant is unable to plead the Part 20 claim with particularity.

 

And the defendant/Part 20 claimant claims:-

 

i) An order requiring the claimant/Part 20 defendant to disclose statements of account covering the entire period of the alleged agreement and a copy of the alleged agreement.

 

ii) Damages limited to £5,000.00

 

iii) Interest pursuant to Section 64 of the County Courts act 1984 at the rate of 8% per annum until judgment or further order or such other sum as the court thinks fit.

 

Dated this day of 2008

 

 

Statement of Truth

I confirm the contents of this defence/Part 20 claim are true.

 

.....................................................

defendant/part 20 claimant

 

To the court

And to the claimant/part 20 defendant

 

Only use the red piece if you made a CCA request.

 

Hope this helps. It is good enough to get you to disclosure.

[pt2537]

 

The profession is chuckling at a recent £60K order for costs against 2 claimants known on this site, who used versions of the docs and arguments regularly referred to herein. Some will know the case to which I refer.

 

Yep i certainly do and have the judgment to boot,

 

they didn't use documents referred to in this site, in fact their legal arguments were downright absurd, the court clearly could not do what they were asking given the circumstances

 

but you may wish to reconsider the amount of costs as there are still two cases to be determined for costs

[aloysiush]

Sorry, the orders for costs totalled £40,000 with others to be assessed. They will probably end up paying an amount exceeding £80,000. Suffice to say, this is what happens when you get out of your comfort zone and give lawyers the excuse to make work - as do the CPR and Pt.18 letters.

 

They used arguments akin to those mentioned on this site - I know.

[pt2537]

now then,

 

unless my maths is way off target,

 

5 cases, three determind as being £20000 per case costs = 60K plus two to be determind,

 

at least that is what this order from the court says

 

[pompeyfaith]

Hiya Guys thanks for the help so far

 

Now should i file the defence now and if so can it be done at MCOL or should i wait a while as i have 14 days ?

 

Regards

 

Pompeyfaith

[PriorityOne]

Sorry, the orders for costs totalled £40,000 with others to be assessed. They will probably end up paying an amount exceeding £80,000. Suffice to say, this is what happens when you get out of your comfort zone and give lawyers the excuse to make work - as do the CPR and Pt.18 letters.

 

They used arguments akin to those mentioned on this site - I know.

 

Just wondering about your reasons for being on CAG, Aloysiush..... seeing as you have no threads of your own going on.

[aloysiush]

PT,

Read the order again - no costs order on Amex case = 40K summary assessed and 2 cases for detailed assessment. It doesn't say detailed, but that is what it was. The order is badly worded.

 

Priority,

 

I don't have a thread, because I do not need help, but people here do!

I feel its about time I gave it away, rather than sell it. I will not always be available as business takes me away, but when I can, I will help with reasoned and meaningful advice. I don't always fully explain myself - a fault, but if people take the time to consider that which I post, they will get on track and fast.

 

I have just explained to PT, my background.

 

Pompey,

 

File it now - why wait?

[PriorityOne]

PT,

 

Priority,

 

I don't have a thread, because I do not need help, but people here do!

I feel its about time I gave it away, rather than sell it. I will not always be available as business takes me away, but when I can, I will help with reasoned and meaningful advice. I don't always fully explain myself - a fault, but if people take the time to consider that which I post, they will get on track and fast.

 

I have just explained to PT, my background.

 

Pompey,

 

 

Altruism has been claimed before on these forums... but thanks for your reply.

 

[pompeyfaith]

4. In all the circumstances the defendant denies being indebted to the claimant as alleged or at all.

 

Not sure about putting this in my defence as i dont deny the debt just I'm unwilling to pay it off until the ppi comes of the debt ?

 

Regards

 

Pompeyfaith

[aloysiush]

Fine. Remove 'or at all'

 

If they are sharpish they will pick up on the admission of at least some of the debt. That chance you will have to take!

[pompeyfaith]

Thank you for help very much appriciated how you think before it goes to court september/october ? and do i need to add the grounds on which the ppi is not payable or should it just be keeped plain and simple as you wrote it ? only thing that worries me now is that they have the cpr 18 on there desk. wish i did not rush in and sent it off now.

 

Regards

 

Pompeyfaith

[aloysiush]

Dont't worry. You will need to beef up the defence/part 20 claim, when youi get the docs to allow you to do so. The docs will be received at disclosure/inspection - latest. You will want all statements and the insurance policy with conditions etc. You may find a few penalty charges to include.

 

Good Luck.

[aloysiush]

Priority One,

 

I have no interest in previous claims or your sarcastic response to my mail. You do not have to read my mail!

 

I do not expect to ever post 4,000+ as you have done. I'm confident, I'm not that interesting.

 

Having read this site, I am amazed at the paranoid postings and that which is so blatantly wrong (e.g. suggestions solicitors are DCA or even debt owners etc etc etc all adding to the hysteria)

 

People are being advised to send letters to claimants and courts, which they do not understand, referring to rules and precedents which they have not read and have been wrongly applied, in any event.

 

I have people writing to me in business, who will not sign their letters to a firm of solicitors, because they have read on here, that the signature may be scanned and pasted onto an agreement or some other document. Indeed I have seen one poor bugger try and explain that to a judge. Yes, he had also used all the letters copied from this site and he was crucified at hearing. He was taken thro' each one and asked to explain himself. The end result is that he paid £5K in costs, which was addded to his debt.

That is how I became aware of this site.

 

If you want my help, you can have it with pleasure, if not - so what! But, do not try and plant the seed of doubt in others who do. Nothing I can do here can gain me a monetary advantage and I'm interested in no other.