Please help me-HFO, totally unreasonable!!

[loislanehere]

Ok to cut a long story short my boyfriend owes 173.79 to HFO services.

 

I rang them up..got loads of unhelpful abuse etc etc... anyway i finally rang through to someone half decent and he and I arranged a monthly payment of 57.93 on june 24, july 24 and august 24 by which time they will send my partner a debt release letter.

 

junes payment has gone out fine...only today i recived a phone call from someone at HFO saying "If you pay 115 we can clear the debt today"...so I've said i am grateful for this offer and i would say yes but i don't physically have the money to pay them until the date arranged.

 

She kept trying to push me...by which time i realised i should record the call so i hit record...and i've got myself saying "I do not authorise you to take any payments accept the ....etc" and SHE SAID!

 

"Ok well i can tell you now you will pay hundreds of pounds more in interest if you don't pay me today"

 

So i arrange to pay them...and make sure that amount is in the bank as arranged, and they STILL ring me up to pressure me out of money. When the debt is going to be fully paid next month?

 

I have rang my bank and put a temp stop on my card so she cant attempt to charge me anyway.

 

The woman tried to tell me i needed a liscence to record her and i was like "Well tough because it was YOU who rang me so therefore i don't need one at all"

 

 

What the hell do i do? Its not even safe to PAY these people!!!! Thats the best thing to do here?

 

Please help me..i may sound calm but i suffer from anxiety as it is...i'm shaking so much and trying not to cry because i'm so upset and worked up. Please does anyone know what i can do?

[slick132]

Hi LL,

 

The only thing to do just now is make sure you keep that recording, in case it can be used as evidence.

 

They are in breach of the OFT Guidelines on Debt Collection trying to scare you with threats of high interest, but there may be a better way to use this against the DCA.

 

I'll report this to the Site Team and get back to you as necessary.

 

Try not to worry about this - you've done all the right things so far and there's nothing the DCA can do to hurt you. Next time, however, just refuse to answer their security questions and hang up. You don't neeed to speak to them.

[loislanehere]

Thank you for replying..argh i know its silly. My partner is useless when it comes to money. I am trying my best but i just cant rest. I cant think about anything else.

 

Have already made the first payment as asked. Its not even a large debt! I was so shocked to get this phone call.

 

We don't dispute the debt or its current amount as we had wrote to 3 who the debt was brought off and we agree with the amount that HFO are asking for.

 

I mean...how can they charge more money once an agreement has already been made?

 

I will definately keep the recording..but still it doesn't fill me with confidence. It just feels like even though we are scraping to pay for this debt...its still not enough. And its not even £200....how can they do this to us when its such a small amount?

 

Thankyou for replying by the way, i will click your scales

[pmhcfc]

Thank you for replying..argh i know its silly. My partner is useless when it comes to money. I am trying my best but i just cant rest. I cant think about anything else.

 

Have already made the first payment as asked. Its not even a large debt! I was so shocked to get this phone call.

 

We don't dispute the debt or its current amount as we had wrote to 3 who the debt was brought off and we agree with the amount that HFO are asking for.

 

I mean...how can they charge more money once an agreement has already been made?

 

I will definately keep the recording..but still it doesn't fill me with confidence. It just feels like even though we are scraping to pay for this debt...its still not enough. And its not even £200....how can they do this to us when its such a small amount?

 

Thankyou for replying by the way, i will click your scales

 

You have to be VERY careful...You'll make the 3 payments they arranged over the phone then sell the debt on again.. Make sure you get EVERYTHING in writing, including any offers. You simply say that you'll make arranged payments as and when you get a letter confirming the arrangements AND that they send you a receipt of every payment.

 

With what you have recorded I would send a letter to the management of that company, tell him/her everything you have recorded and then ask them what they're going to do about it. I'd guess they'd happily call the account quits with what you have on them. A complaint by you to TS or OFT or FSO will land them with a fine of £400.

[The Convincer]

From what I've heard, HFO are complete cowboys. It's unfortunate that you didn't seek advice before contacting them. I assume you haven't sent them a CCA request, to prove that you actually owe the debt to them? For all you know, as has been suggested, the payments you're making are not going towards paying off the debt. I'd suspend further payments and send them a CCA request.

[loislanehere]

So isn't that a [problem]? I don't know what to do. Were happy to pay the debt, but how are we meant to do that?

 

Should i ignore them completely? I just don't know what to do anymore...everything seems so hopeless. Even people willing to pay debts have no hope...

 

How can i get rid of this debt and be sure about it all?

[loislanehere]

From what I've heard, HFO are complete cowboys. It's unfortunate that you didn't seek advice before contacting them. I assume you haven't sent them a CCA request, to prove that you actually owe the debt to them? For all you know, as has been suggested, the payments you're making are not going towards paying off the debt. I'd suspend further payments and send them a CCA request.

 

 

Well i have a letter from 3 (and checked its source etc) saying they have sold the debt to HFO services to be fair...so i accepted that he owed HFO now.

 

If i suspend payments...what should i do?

 

Or even if i do pay the debt and am sure it is owed to them..how do i stop them from trying to [problem] me out of more money?

 

I'd upload the phone call here but i don't know how...she said "i will tell you now we will make you pay hundreds of pounds more than what you owe"....but why? after have agreed to pay the money?

[The Convincer]

Regardless of what 3 say, ask HFO for a CCA anyway. You are entitled to this. If they fail to produce it, they can't persue.

 

In the mean time, don't pay HFO anything until they provide this (if they do, ensure you get it checked on here that it's real). If they phone, don't talk to them (I was told off on here for doing this). Inform them that you only want to be contacted via writing and to not call you anymore. Additionally, tell them to remove your number from their databases and not to pass it on to third parties. If they continue to harrass you, send a harrassment letter (templates are available on here).

 

 

Ensure to send your letter by recorded delivery and then we wait for 14 days. If they can't produce it, they don't really have a leg to stand on, although the bad news is that your payments may have been a waste. Perhaps you can take action againts them, if that's the case. I'm no expert but what I will say is that if they're telling you that they can put hundreds of pounds interest on a debt that's barely over a hundred pound as it is, they're not exactly adhering to upstanding trading practices. I'm sure the legal experts on here will provide better comment shortly.

 

In the mean time, work on a CCA to HFO and then relax and keep your chin up.

Edited July 2, 2008 by The Convincer

[The Convincer]

Here's a CCA template.

 

Consumer Credit Act template - Consumer Wiki

 

Remember to send special delivery, date the letter and keep an electronic copy of it. The ball is then in HFO's court.

[loislanehere]

I wish i could..i don't want to turn this into a sob story or go off topic, but for 8years i suffered with depression and all sorts..spent nearly a decade on tablets. Now im completely free from all that and coping with "normal" life with a job and a relationship and maintaining good relationships with friends and family. All of a sudden i've got this to deal with and its just devestating me.

 

Thankyou so much for replying, I don't suppose you have a link for the CCA template or some more info about it?

I won't pay anything from now on i'm going to get my card completely changed i think.

What happens then if they do produce it? because even if i find out he has to pay..i'm back to square 1 not knowing how i can pay safely.

 

If they do charge something rediculous, am i legally obliged to pay this? and what should i do. I don't suppose you know legally what they can't do charge wise do you?

 

Sorry to ask so many questions, i'm not being ingrateful. Just want to be able to sleep tonight. I know it sounds silly because its not a major amount. Its just the situation and the treatment of these people towards me thats getting me down

[Bobity]

I am in dispute over a small amount too, this forum has been a great help. Don't dispair. Send the CCA request as advised but don't sign anything. I was warned that some DCAs scan your signature and put it on documents to make them look authentic. If they can't supply the CCA then they can't claim the money. If they can, then according to consumer credit act they can't levy charges disproportionate to the debt - so they can't charge you hundreds of pounds. I would report them to the OFT etc.

[slick132]

Hi LL,

 

The Site Team feel you have cause here to complain to the Trading Standards, the OFT and the FOS.

 

Make a brief note of what was said in the tel con, including the threat that failure to pay today will cost you hundreds extra in interest. Include in the notes when the recording device was activated so it's clear what is recorded.

 

Write to the OFT heading your letter FORMAL COMPLAINT, saying you believe you have been deliberately misled and threatened by the DCA, who were in breach of Sections 2.6(g), 2.7 and 2.8(i) of the OFT Guidelines on Debt Collection. The DCA have also contravened sections of the CPUT 2008 Regulations.

 

Copy the letter to the FOS asking them to investigate the actions of the DCA.

 

Write to the DCA enclosing a copy of the above letter and confirm that the tel con recording will be made available to both the OFT and the FOS. Ask the DCA for their comments IN WRITING only, as you will not speak to them on the phone for any reason.

 

You could also ask them if they would like to consider writing off the balance outstanding on the debt by way of compensation for their various breaches of regulations.

Edited July 2, 2008 by slick132
last para

[slick132]

ALSO, send a separate letter to the DCA using Letter N from here - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-bailiffs-advice/20758-creditors-dcas-letter-templates.html

 

Enclose the £1.00 fee and send Rec'd Del'y, or get a Certificate of Posting from the PO when you send it (which is free). Don't sign the letter - just write or print your name.

 

OFT address is:-

 

Enquiries Unit

Office of Fair Trading

Fleetbank House

2-6 Salisbury Square

London, EC4Y 8JX.

 

FOS address is:-

 

The Financial Ombudsman Service

South Quay Plaza

183 Marsh Wall

London E14 9SR

[loislanehere]

Slick thank you so much....I really appreciate that you've made the time to help me. I feel so sick with worry... I just think, to get out of debt...you have to pay the debt, and i cant even do that safely.

 

Today I am going to send out a CCA, the letter N from the list, and a telephone harassment letter (they bombard his mothers home address with personal information in telephone calls more than 4times a day)

 

Is there a template or any suggestions of what i should say in my letters for OFT, FOS and TS ?

 

Again thankyou so much...woke up this morning and this is the first thing on my mind. Just hope things will feel easier now that i have a lot more knowledge on where i stand.

 

Any information you can give me on anything that will help me is so grately appreciated thankyou. (clicking everyones scales!)

[Fighting-Fit]

HI loislanehere, the CCA request in your case is not the best option. The original creditor is a mobile phone company and they do not have to produce a valid CCA. You still want them to prove the debt so the following letter would be more appropriate in your case.

 

 

Dear Goons

 

You have contacted me/us regarding the account with the above reference number, which you claim is owed by myself/ourselves.

 

I/we would point out that I/we have no knowledge of any such debt being owed to (insert company name).

 

I am/we are familiar with the Office of Fair Trading Debt Collection Guidance which states that it unfair to send demands for payment to an individual when it is uncertain that they are the debtor in question.

 

I/we would also point out that the OFT say under the Guidance that it is unfair to pursue third parties for payment when they are not liable. In not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt you are using deceptive/and or unfair methods.

 

Furthermore ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment amounts to physical/psychological harassment.

 

I/we would ask that no further contact be made concerning the above account unless you can provide evidence as to my/our liability for the debt in question.

 

I/we await your written confirmation that this matter is now closed. Otherwise I will have no option but to make a complaint to the trading standards department and consider informing the OFT of your actions.

 

I/we look forward to your reply.

 

Yours faithfully

 

I know you have already made payments to these goons but its as if they have seen that as a sign of weakness and have gone in for the the kill. Stop payment, send the prove it letter and send the letters to TS and OFT concerning the tape as per slick132's advice. It's time to fight back. You can get a telephone harassment letter to send them on my thread.

You have tried to do the "decent" thing and they have abused that. Time for a different approach. From now on dont speak to these people on the phone (you already have evidence) dont acknowledge the debt (until they prove otherwise) dont sign anything. Send the letters individually (it will be easier to document) send all letters by recorded delivery. The prove it letter will buy you time. The TS and OFT should have been in touch with the DCA and they will back off. Good luck loislanehere.

[Fighting-Fit]

I think you will find this thread valuable. It is about recording DCA phone calls and the actions they have taken. Its a massive thread but could be helpful to you.

 

Are you being harassed on the telephone by your bank or by debt collectors?

[loislanehere]

Have taken a look at that...thats what reminded me to hit record

 

So is the CCA completely pointless to send then?

 

The thing is...what if they can prove the debt was owed? Because even if i do then pay...surely they will do the same again? Thats what i'm so unsettled about mainly...

 

 

Shall i send a CCA aswell?

[Fighting-Fit]

If they prove the debt is owed they will know by then that they are not dealing with someone who doesn't know their rights They will have been investigated by the authorities about the taped phone call and they will treat you differently. If the debt is for a mobile phone then yes it (CCA) is worthless. I would write to them and ask details of their complaints procedure. Then I would complain about the phone call and let them know you have the tape. loislanehere you have a lot of letters to send off and the sooner the better I would say.

[loislanehere]

Ok so now i'm confused!

 

1. Send the letter you've written above.

2. Telephone harassment letter.

3. TS etc?

[AndyOrch]

Hi

 

BTW Thx Loislane for your earlier Rep

 

I would also consider sending S.A.R instead of the CCA in this matter firstly you will request a credit agreement and also identify any penalty/collection charges in said debt Also acopy of the NOA to HFC

Template can be found in the library costs £10.00 and send Spl delivery do not sign print name.

 

Hope the above is of help

 

Regards Andy

[loislanehere]

Whats

"Also acopy of the NOA to HFC"

 

? (thanks aswell by the way )

[AndyOrch]

Hi Notice of Assignment from the O/C to HFC proof that they have the right to chase the debt in their own name or on behalf of the O/C

 

 

Regards

Andy

[loislanehere]

Whats that? The letter that they'd sent me origionally?

 

(btw, they've only ever sent one letter!)

[Fighting-Fit]

This is what I would do in your situation.

1 Send the Prove it letter ( it bides you time and puts the debt in dispute)

 

2 Send the telephone Harassment letter (more proof for your case)

 

3 Make contact with the authorities about the malpractice of the DCA. It is not even your debt.

 

4 If they send proof, then SAR them to include all telephone communication as well.

 

5 Take them to the cleaners

 

loislanehere try and speak to the TS and OFT and any other authority other members advise you to on the phone first. Find out exactly what they want from you.

Good luck loislane I will be rooting for you.

[The Convincer]

Apologies, Lo,

 

A S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) may well be what's needed, rather than a CCA. I haven't had dealings with mobile phone companies, but it seems Fighting-Fit knows the state of play with such people. Don't be confused, post 24 seems pretty solid advice to me. You definately have grounds to complain, particularly in regards to having the conversation recorded where you're threatened with extortionate interest.

 

Here's a couple of templates. Pick the one you like best (they basically say the same thing) and adapt it to your situation...

 

Subject Access Request - Consumer Wiki

Edited July 3, 2008 by The Convincer