Help in dealing with BCW...

[Glepa014]

Many thanks - sent registered with copies to the TS and TSS.

[Glepa014]

....and the saga continues.....having sent the letter as above confirming that my position remained unchanged and that any further action would be considered in breach of CPUTR 2008, I today received a further letter from our friends at BCW stating that "we confirm that the debt is NOT statute barred......" "further, our clients advise that the last payment to this account was made in July 2004" "We have previously provided a copy of the credit agreement but attach a further copy for your records".......this copy is AGAIN completely illegible - bar my signature and name / address details..

 

First things first, I can categorically state that no payment was made to this - or any other - account by me during 2004...I have today been through statements of ALL my bank accounts for that period and no payments were made on loans, credit cards or loans as I was resident in Jersey at the time and had no credit ties to the UK.

 

Secondly - IF (and I don't actually believe they have preferring to believe that this is a ploy on the part of BCW) their "clients" are able to state that a payment was made at this time, should they not be obliged - as I have asked on many occassions - to provide a statement of account evidencing both this AND the accumulation of the debt they allege to be due ?

 

At no stage have they provided me details of the amounts comprising the alleged debt, the defaults, default charges, interest and initial principal payable to substantiate such debt - I would assume that 'their client states" is not sufficient in that sense (though if their client states - then this is clearly either erronious or an out right lie !)

 

Any ideas / assistance on how to respond would be greatly appreciated.

[rory32]

Have you complained to the OFT?

[Sabrina470]

BCW are amongst the lowest of all DCAs I have ever encountered. Their phone people are so incredibly rude I thought I had been set up for a jeremy beadle type thing. They tell you they have been granted permission to send round 'Debt Visiting Officers', who I assure you NEVER appear, well not to my knowledge. Deal with them ONLY in writing, keep it blunt and to the point. They are the lowest of the low. I know very little compared to most on here but I would ensure that they provide you with all details - you know you are in the right - where are they going to find them? And they do not respond to common sense, they have no interest in listening to you. You could tell them to look out the window to see an oncoming comet and they would reply with some jargon about pay up or else. Please don't let them worry you. I did for 2 years before I finally got rid of them and they made my life a misery.

[Glepa014]

rory32, yes - I cc'd both Trading Standards and the OFT on my last letters - though I am yet to hear anything from either...

[rory32]

Then I would inform them of this further development. Regarding your OFT complaint I would also question BCW's fitness to hold a consumer credit license.

[ODC]

The law is quite clear on this. BCW must PROVE that you made this payment in 2004

[UnmoderatetheNet]

I am sick to death of seeing BCW in threads can people PLEASE report these losers otherwise they will continue to abuse the law

[Glepa014]

Hi all, me again.....and guess what....ANOTHER threatening letter from BCW....

 

Having replied (and cc'd OFT, Trading Standards and Trading Standards Scotland) stating that BCW have a legal obligation to provide a LEGIBLE credit agreement, evidence that the debt exists (in the form of statement of account etc) and proof that the debt (if it exists) is not statute barred, I today received a letter stating that per their previous letter re court action, they were now arranging to send a debt collection agent "as I had failed to contact them".......I currently have a two inch high pile of correspondence contacting them and receiving letters stating 'nothing' in return....further, they will be sending their debt collection agent and I should call them on a specified number to arrange a suitable time or they will simply send one at their convenience.....

 

Interestingly this letter, whilst it carries a Glasgow letterhead, arrived in a business envelope postmarked Andover....

 

They can only have sent this before my last response....and I fully intend to send this (again, despite at this stage a response from them) to the OFT etc.

 

Without having provided me ANY of the required legal proof of the alleged debt, at what stage do these persistent threats become harassment from a legal perspective - should I consult a lawyer and suggest that I 'sue' or 'action' them for such.....I have a baby due in 6 weeks and this is starting to cause real upset for my wife !

 

When will this end ? I am more than happy to discuss the alleged debt if they are prepared to evidence it - otherwise what is to stop me writing to a random member of the public, telling them they owe me money and behaiving the same - what has happened to the world where these people can demand monies with no proof and simply a barrage of threats ?

[rory32]

at what stage do these persistent threats become harassment from a legal perspective - should I consult a lawyer and suggest that I 'sue' or 'action' them for such.....I have a baby due in 6 weeks and this is starting to cause real upset for my wife !

 

I certainly think at this stage you probably should consult a solicitor. BCW are notorious for ignoring the law of the land unless challenged.

[miss_ella]

HI. I just wanted to explain how to deal with many of thee types of companies. I know you have your 'Prove it Letters' and so on but they aren't necessary.

 

Under the Data Protection Act, a signed authority is required by one party to give any information you give to a party, to another party.

 

My partner had been hounded by BCW for a few months. They call from their 0845 numbers: 08453006900 and 05488780516. They let it ring a few times, when you answer it terminates. This is so YOU RING THEM and YOU PAY FOR THE CALL. Usually calls made from the 6900 number are made by an operator.

 

They will ask "Hello, I'm calling to speak to XYZ Person"

 

Most people foolishly say "Yes that's me" or "I'll just get them"

 

NOOO! You say "May I ask who is calling?"

 

They are then required to give their name. Always make a fuss over the spelling of their name "Is that with an A or an E, and do is that ending in ie or y"

 

"May I ask where you are calling from"

 

They will then give a company name. If they say "BCW" ask them to spell out the company name for you.

 

"Can you tell me what your relationship is with XYZ please"

 

They will say "It's a personal matter"

 

"That's OK, I'm XYZ's personal managager, I'm not familiar with your name or your company, could you tell me what it is about please?"

 

THey will say "I'm sorry I can't tell you anything under the Data Protection Act"

 

"How strange, I have no records of you or your company having a relationship with XYZ, can you tell me where you got XYZ's name and phone number from"

 

They will use the Data Protection Act line again.

 

"I'm sorry, you woudl know under the Data Protection Act that XYZ would have signed a form when giving you XYZ's information, I'm not aware that has taken place, as you are unable to furnish me with such documents, I request under the Data Protection Act that you delete XYZs name, this telephone number and any other records of any kind, in computer, printed or written instanter. YOur failure to do so and confirm you have done this to me will result in a formal complaint being made pursuant to the Data Protectin Act and I am authorised by XYZ to file proceeedings in the Court."

 

THey will try and make some excuse or even better ask you to hold and transfer you to a supervisor.

 

Go back to the top of the script and start again! Take your time, they are paying for the call.

 

After you get through the above monologue for the second time and they refuse you say:

 

"Pursuane to Corporations Law and the DAta Protection Act please provide to me your registered office address, your telephone number, and your fac number. I will need these to make a formal complain as I have described above."

 

I've never got past that. They usually say "Right we'll delete this number from our records."

 

I reply with "You must delete all records relating to XYZ and provide me with a writen confirmation of this. Woudl you like an email address to send me this conformation forthwith?"

 

THey usually go backto saying they will delete the number.

 

Remind them "No doubt you are recording this call, I have noted the date and time for XYZ's records against your company name, your peronal names and the number you are calling from. The recording will be subpoenaed for use as evidence in any future discaplinary or legal damages proceedings."

 

ANther thing, most mobile phones can record telephone calls if you go into the media section and activate the recorder. As you already know the number before you answer here's a really simple proceedure.

 

Answer the call. "Hello can you please hold a moment"

 

Pretend to mumble some random sentences as if you are in the middle of a conversation or giving instructions. Work thorugh your phone menu's and get the media recorder active. Get it recording. MAKE SURE IT IS RECORDING.

 

SOmetimes you can let them know you are recording at that point, however I always tell them after I mention they must be recording the call, so I am too.

 

They will usually say it's illegal to record the call. Just remind them that they are.

 

They will say that it's only illegal for you to record the call without telling them, or that they are legally allowed to or whatever.

 

The law is simple. You can record a telephone call provided YOU are the peron reocrding the call and YOU are the person in the conversation. YOu can not use the call for anything other than to 'refresh' your memory of the call.

 

Of coure the simple solution to this is sit down, take your time and transcribe the call accurately. Listen and read it over a few times to make sure you have it correct.

 

Mark the Transcript "Contemporaneous notes of telephone call with ABC on DATE and TIME"

 

Now you have 'written records' of the call that are not illegal to be published or distributed. I take great joy in sending a copy to the caller, their management, their Board of Directors and so on.

 

I have NEVER heard from anyone again after doing that. But that's because I follow my script EXCACTLY. Do NOT get heated, do NOT get angry, be pollite, laugh a little. Enjoy the call. It's fun!

 

People who do these kinds of jobs prey on a psychologicall process of power and intimidation. It makes them feel powerful. THey get all flustered and confused and intimidated when YOU come back stronger.

 

You are no longer the OMEGA dog being kicked and beaten by the ALPHA dog. You are in control and you have the power.

 

Do NOT vary the script (unless you contact me first) and do NOT say anything outside the script.

 

If they try to 'seed;' you with somehting like "You have a debt owing to HIJ company and we want to collect it" say go back to asking for a copy of the written authority for them to call and stick to the script.

 

If they ask for your address, say under the Data Protection Act you are unable tio give them any details about any person as you have not been authorised to communicate said details to ABC company."

 

See how simple it is!

 

A word of warning though. DO NOT AVOID PAYING DEBTS. Even if you are stressed out. ALWAYS put forward a fair proposal to clear a debt. Even if it's £1 a week. If you MAKE an offer to clear a debt you know you have, then keep records of those offers and the names of persons who reject them.

 

If your bluff of sending you documents is called by the caller, then ensure you have a nice spare hotmail address. Ask them to email you digital version of the documents to the hotmail address as it's the only publicly available address you have to offer them for correspondence.

 

It only takes a monite to set up a few hotmail accounts. Never give out the same one to different parties.

 

Hotmail now allows you to link hotmail addresses, so you can have 30 different addresses and link them all - one logging, and then move about your accounts.

 

I regerister accounts with the calling party or companies name:

 

[email protected]

 

bcw - being, well we al know that one!

2009 - being the year

02 - being the month

 

But make up your own methods of creating addresses. You might just have something like:

 

[email protected]

[email protected]

[email protected]

 

When you deal with companie:

 

[email protected]

[email protected]

[email protected]

 

get the idea? Come up with your own variation.

 

Don't use initial or real names, they are a give away! And don't necesarily use anything with the same 3 or more character combination. It is common for databae to be earched for "smi*" for Smith.

 

I am sick of people using initimidation to solve problems. It doesn't work, it causes suicides and homocide. It's also time people who claim to be acting under a law actually know the law.

 

When they say "Under the Data Protection Act" ak them what section. Here is a link to the Data Protection Act Data Protection Act 1998 (c. 29) read it, learn it and discover it has not protection whatsoever, and any time you sign a form CROSS OUT the DATA PROTECTION ACT section and initial it.

 

DO NOT allow people to hare your peronal referal information. We constantly hear about Identify Fraud, well I just need a Date of Birth and a Post Code and I can find out anything I want about a peron.

 

It's not hard to 'fish' either.

 

GUARD YOUR DOB! When asked for your DOB by anyone, ak them why they need it. They will say "to serve your age group better" just say "that's OK, my son might come in next week and want the same ervice so his age and my age won't help you, jut our opinion on the product or service, if youd like that I'd be happy to comment."

 

NO ONE needs yout Date of Birth. No one needs your childrends date of birth on a record either.

 

Good luck, have fun, lots of fun and remember PAY YOUR DEBTS, but don't let people hound you. ALWAYS MAKE DEALS! If they don't want to make a deal, then go to the Conumer Tribunal, file a claim to make payments by arrangement and offer your reasons. GET IN BEFORE THEY GET YOU.

 

It's simple.

 

 

 

If anyone wants to hear the recording I made today, or others I have (but haven't processes) so you can get a feel, let me know. If enough people demand, then I'll set up a secured web site with transcripts and so on.

 

Of course I'll advise BCW that the recording are published pursuant to the Copyright Act for 'reporting and journalistic critic" and they are welcome to comment!

 

They will of course, like BORG, adapt, but even the BORG can be beaten!

Edited February 4, 2009 by miss_ella

[ODC]

Miss Ella are you suggesting that alleged debts are paid to a DCA who is unable to produce a properly executed CCA or that we should still pay if a debt is Statute Barred

[rory32]

Do NOT vary the script (unless you contact me first)

Umm no I won't be contacting you. Please read the Forum Rules regarding advice by PM.

 

Good luck, have fun, lots of fun and remember PAY YOUR DEBTS,

Assuming of course that there is a right to collect in the first place.

 

ALWAYS MAKE DEALS!

Yeah, like they can berger off because it's unenforceable.

 

If they don't want to make a deal, then go to the Conumer Tribunal

And who might these people be? There is no Consumer Tribunal except to review decisions made by the OFT.

 

If your bluff of sending you documents is called by the caller

The DCA rarely send anyone any documents other than meaningless bumph. Anything they send you is by normal post only. DCA's often appear to lie to people about what they have sent (never mind their super human legal powers).

 

The law is simple. You can record a telephone call provided YOU are the peron reocrding the call and YOU are the person in the conversation. YOu can not use the call for anything other than to 'refresh' your memory of the call.

This is not entirely correct. While you cannot just make them available to the court to prove harassment, etc. you can use the recording to make a transcript and if the transcript is challenged then a judge may order the recording be played.

 

There is no legal obligation for you to inform them that the call is being recorded.

[ODC]

Well their you have it folks. Do you follow the somewhat dubious advice of new poster Miss Ella or the considered opinion of a longtime and well respected member such as Rory.

 

I know who's advice I prefer.

[miss_ella]

Miss Ella are you suggesting that alleged debts are paid to a DCA who is unable to produce a properly executed CCA or that we should still pay if a debt is Statute Barred

 

If you have no records (legitimately) of a debt, of course you don't pay it. But really, think hard within yourself. If you know you legitimately owe someone money, isn't it better to clear that from your conscious.

 

There are without doubt scams where, for example, a 'store' credit payments plan i abused at the consumers disadvantage. Those '49 month interest free' things are brutal. See they charged you 'one month' (usually) in fees. Most consumers think f they pay the 'purchase price' within the first year or 2 then it's done.

 

Two years later there is a debt collector at your door asking you for £1000's in payment on that £34 monthly due. Well after you add in monthly over due fees, account management fees, collections fees, then its worth them collecting. You DID sign the agreement.

 

Rarely does unconscionable conduct holdup in a court though.

 

Statute Barred Debts. That's a personal choice. I have. I knew I acquired the debt, I had a bad time. The creditor even 'wrote' it off. I lived with the guilt, and turned around one day and offered to pay it in terms way beyond statute. End result I ended up with a very generous supplier.

 

It's good if you can turn a bad experience into a positive future.

 

However I do NOT agree to the 'debt buyers' harassment. And as some people have discovered, once you settle on one matter, your name and detail go far and wide looking for more nasties to throw at you.

 

Youc an be assured though, that many of the people in these 'service' companies with 'great oportunities' for you, have their own debt issues.

 

I had a bulldog who thought they got onto a bloody bone because of something that made me ery visible once. I researched the peron and helped them find their own truth

[ODC]

As I suspected.

 

Yet another DCA TROLL

[Nottsdave]

How odd, on some sort of programme no doubt.

[hillards]

I know I'm currently under the influence of the flu virus and maybe not thinking straight, I'm hoping this is some sort of hallucination, but I'm deeply worried that a new poster is jumping in what their own version of how to deal with a DCA, with several flaws, in the hope that people will take this up.

 

People normally come here looking for advice because they are being chased. After a while, and having sorted the matter out, they may continue to use CAG and help others.

 

I cannot see the logic of saying:

PAY YOUR DEBTS, but don't let people hound you. ALWAYS MAKE DEALS! If they don't want to make a deal, then go to the Conumer Tribunal...

What tribunal? Anyone reading that would go off looking for an organisation that does not exist - well, not in the UK anyway.

 

As for paying debts - if it were possible them many people would, I've only worked for 15 months of the last 5 years, mainly due to illness. I don't even get benefits and we have to struggle on what little my wife brings in. The DCA demands for hundreds of pounds NOW were just unreal and they refused offers of small payments, all I could afford. They've made the decisions not to take the matter to the courts and are no longer chasing for payment, that's the best deal I could have hoped for. I've no need for credit, and wouldn't get it anyway in my circumstances.

 

Good advice is vital to the many people using CAG. I would suggest that the poster concerned should declare their interest in taking part in this thread - journalist looking for a story? CAB volunteer needing information to help in training? DCA employee stirring it? How are we to know. New posters do not gain my trust very easily.

[ODC]

If you read the post carefully you will notice the appalling grammar and spelling. The use of the moral argument is also a sure sign that the Troll is an employee of a DCA.

[babybear39]

I'd be inclined to agree with you ODC that's it's a DCA troll. No decent journalist would spell that badly

[42man]

I'd agree concurrently it is a troll

 

"Two years later there is a debt collector at your door asking you for £1000's in payment on that £34 monthly due. Well after you add in monthly over due fees, account management fees, collections fees, then its worth them collecting. You DID sign the agreement." TROLL TALK

 

"Statute Barred Debts. That's a personal choice. I have. I knew I acquired the debt, I had a bad time. The creditor even 'wrote' it off. I lived with the guilt, and turned around one day and offered to pay it in terms way beyond statute. End result I ended up with a very generous supplier" CAN WE GET A TAXI TO 'REAL' STREET PLEASE ?

 

I had a bulldog who thought they got onto a bloody bone because of something that made me ery visible once. I researched the peron and helped them find their own truth - WHAT COLOUR ARE THE CLOUDS ON YOUR PLANET ?

[42man]

"However I do NOT agree to the 'debt buyers' harassment. And as some people have discovered, once you settle on one matter, your name and detail go far and wide looking for more nasties to throw at you." - Anybody who uses the term 'DEBT BUYER' works in the industry......as subtle as an air raid.....

[mr.ton]

If you have no records (legitimately) of a debt, of course you don't pay it. But really, think hard within yourself. If you know you legitimately owe someone money, isn't it better to clear that from your conscious.

There are without doubt scams where, for example, a 'store' credit payments plan i abused at the consumers disadvantage. Those '49 month interest free' things are brutal. See they charged you 'one month' (usually) in fees. Most consumers think f they pay the 'purchase price' within the first year or 2 then it's done.

Two years later there is a debt collector at your door asking you for £1000's in payment on that £34 monthly due. Well after you add in monthly over due fees, account management fees, collections fees, then its worth them collecting. You DID sign the agreement.

Rarely does unconscionable conduct holdup in a court though.

Statute Barred Debts. That's a personal choice. I have. I knew I acquired the debt, I had a bad time. The creditor even 'wrote' it off. I lived with the guilt, and turned around one day and offered to pay it in terms way beyond statute. End result I ended up with a very generous supplier.

It's good if you can turn a bad experience into a positive future.

However I do NOT agree to the 'debt buyers' harassment. And as some people have discovered, once you settle on one matter, your name and detail go far and wide looking for more nasties to throw at you.

Youc an be assured though, that many of the people in these 'service' companies with 'great oportunities' for you, have their own debt issues.

I had a bulldog who thought they got onto a bloody bone because of something that made me ery visible once. I researched the peron and helped them find their own truth

 

[ScarletPimpernel]

Very odd posts from an odd IP address.

 

Anyway, we shouldn't allow trolling to detract from helping OP.

[rory32]

This did make me chuckle though.

Two years later there is a debt collector at your door asking you for £1000's in payment on that £34 monthly due.

Who would be told to foxtrot oscar as they have no legal right to be there. Should they not remove themself sharpish then the police would be called and of course a complaint made.

Well after you add in monthly over due fees,

Which are reclaimable.

account management fees,

Which there is no basis in law for adding and so again would be reclaimable as well as a wee complaint going in to various bodies.

collections fees

Which falls into the same category as the account management 'fees'.

then its worth them collecting.

Not at my house it ain't chum.

You DID sign the agreement.

Then it should be no problem to produce the said agreement, should it? Of course such agreements are governed by statute as are consumers rights. You're not saying that statute should be ignored surely