Help in dealing with BCW...

[Glepa014]

Hi, (bit of a long post - sorry about that)...

 

Around a year ago I received some correspondence from Thames Credit which purported that I owed them the sum of around £1800 which they had bought from GE Capital.

 

Having no recollection of such a debt I ignored this letter only to receive subsequent (and increasingly more threatening) demands for payment. Some suggested that I could pay a reduced amount if paying immediately of that I could pay in instalments.

 

I (probably a mistake) called them on receipt of the third or fourth letter and they advised that the debt was for a store card (unspecified), that they did not know what the debt comprised nor from when but that it had been assigned to them from GE Capital.

 

I recalled having a store card (Principals) operated by GE a looooong time ago but had no receollection of owing anything on it (I used it very infrequently) and said as much to the person on the phone. They then advised me that the onus was on me to demonstrate that it was paid up (having had neither the card nor any statements and having moved a few times since 2000 including offshore I have no records dating back that far) and advised that I had no belief that I owed this money but should they provide evidence of such debt - including FULL statements evidencing composition of the debt as alleged.

 

I heard nothing more for three or four months (roughly last November) when I received a letter from Buchanan Clark & Wells acting for Thames Credit threatening immediate legal action unless I not pay the alleged amount straight away. Within three days I received a further letter advising that they were now initiating the threatened action.

 

At this point I phoned BCW (I know, you should avoid calling) and restated my conversation with Thames Credit confirming that I knew nothing of the debt but that the onus was on them / Thames Credit to evidence that I had a debt to them. They advised that they would investigate and I heard nothing more.....

 

Until I got home yesterday .... where I had received a letter from BCW stating "Further to your request, please finc copy credit agreement. Failure to pay the debt in full by the above will result in immediate legal action. In the result of action, interest and legal fees will be added to the principal sum. Payment in full must reach our offices no later than noon 1st July 2008." i.e. TODAY which gave me approximately 15 hours from receiving the letter.

 

The 'copy credit agreement' is completely and utterly illegible, the whole document being black barring a few boxes in which my name, address and signature appear (it is my signature - and its dated 05/03/96)...

 

No evidence, statements, details of payments, interest, default etc are provided and thinking back, I have little doubt that this card was used beyond 2000 at the latest.

 

Surely they are obliged to provide details of what they allege the debt is comprised of. And (having viewed other posts on this site) would the debt (if any exists) count as statute barred (despite that I responded to them verbally last year though at no time acknowledged any endebtedness to them, GE or otherwise....??

 

Thanks

[havinastella]

Hi and welcome,

 

You are quite correct in your assumptions, the onus is very much on the DCA to provide you will ALL information about the debt.

 

Once a debt is statue barred it matters not a jot if you contact them or even pay towards it (as long as no CCJ was issued)

 

You have two options in my opinion

 

The 'statue barred' letter

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/20758-creditors-dcas-letter-templates.html

 

letter 'M'

 

or the prove it letter

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

You have contacted me/us regarding the account with the above reference number, which you claim is owed by myself/ourselves.

 

I/we would point out that I/we have no knowledge of any such debt being owed to (insert company name).

 

I am/we are familiar with the Office of Fair Trading Debt Collection Guidance which states that it unfair to send demands for payment to an individual when it is uncertain that they are the debtor in question.

 

I/we would also point out that the OFT say under the Guidance that it is unfair to pursue third parties for payment when they are not liable. In not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt you are using deceptive/and or unfair methods.

 

Furthermore ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment amounts to physical/psychological harassment.

 

I/we would ask that no further contact be made concerning the above account unless you can provide evidence as to my/our liability for the debt in question.

 

I/we await your written confirmation that this matter is now closed. Otherwise I will have no option but to make a complaint to the trading standards department and consider informing the OFT of your actions.

 

I/we look forward to your reply.

 

Yours faithfully

_________________

 

 

Hope this helps

 

Jogs

Edited July 1, 2008 by havinastella

[42man]

Please stop calling them as they WILL LIE to frighten you into paying.....the debt is statute barred and if they continue to harrass you once you state that you will not be paying anything towards a staute barred debt then this is against the OFT's guidelines on debt collection AND you could take them to court....take a look at this...

 

2.14 (b) -

continuing to press for payment after a debtor has stated that they

will not be paying a debt because it is statute barred could amount to

harassment contrary to section 40 (1) of the Administration of

Justice Act 1970.

[Glepa014]

Many thanks .... I will write to them today with a version of the 'prove it' letter - IF they provide any further statemented evidence (which I feel unlikely) then I fully expect this to demonstrate that the balance was paid at the time or that the debt is in fact statute barred, in which case I shall further reply with a version of the Letter M confirming this.......

[babybear39]

Subscribing...

 

Personally, I'd send the statute barred letter first. DO NOT SIGN, print your name, send recorded and keep copies of everything.

 

Good luck.

[havinastella]

I always find with the prove it letter they normally pass it on to another DCA.

 

The statue barred has more weight behind it IMO, esp as Bank Fodder is trying to get a case going on DCA's chasing debts that are older than 6 years.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/146530-have-you-received-threatening.html

 

Jogs

[Glepa014]

Is it worth combining the two ? I don't believe a debt exists though IF it does it would almost certainly be older than six years....

[havinastella]

Is it worth combining the two ? I don't believe a debt exists though IF it does it would almost certainly be older than six years....

 

You have nothing to lose

 

JOgs

[babybear39]

Statue barred first, then if they come back with something, try the prove it letter.

 

More than likely they'll pass back to the original creditor as soon as you write to them anyway

[babybear39]

You have nothing to lose

 

JOgs

 

That'll confuse the poor dears too much

[Glepa014]

OK, thanks all - I'll take that route and hope they finally leave me alone !

[havinastella]

That'll confuse the poor dears too much

 

 

You are of course correct, what would a DCA do if we amended the templates on CAG

 

If you have any further problems I have a great follow up letter for chasing 'stat barred'

 

Just PM me when you need it and I'll post it up

 

Jogs

[Glepa014]

Just as a update to this, I wrote a statute barred letter and sent this recorded delivery yesterday (and also a copy by email). However, in yesterdays post I received a further letter from BCW (dated 26th June despite that their previous letter requested payment by 1st July) headed final notice and stating "Since you have failed to notify us of any legitimate reason for non payment we can only assume that you do not wish to settle this matter amicably".. and insisting that I call their 24 hour payment line immediately........I did not...

[Captain Spaulding]

Subscribing...

 

I'm in the same boat with BCW, sent them a prove it letter and got a nice letter back saying they will investigate. Since then, all has gone quite - further threats have stopped.

 

As a heads up, if you receive a letter from Geoffrey Parker Bourne solicitors - please keep the letter AND the envelope as I had evidence they are sending letters with the letter heading of Geoffrey Parker Bourne which we trying to investigate further (I say had, I threw the envelope away which had the return address of BCW)

 

Hope this helps!

[Glepa014]

Having sent the statute barred letter 1st July, I today received a further letter from BCW stating that they noted my query and had put this on file but had now received further information from the alleged ceditor (I note this is now referred to as Aktiv Capital which is not a name previously mentioned) and that I must call them to further discuss. They also stated that my 'account' had been put on hold for ten days to allow time for me to call.

 

They have NOT provided ay detail of the alleged debt once again and i do not intend to call them based on previous advice and similar posts.

 

Any ideas ? Do I simply ignore this ? Is it simply a last ditch attempt to scare me into paying an unsubtantiated debt ?

 

Thanks in advance...

[rory32]

I would make a complaint to the OFT. You have made your position clear to them. On no accounts phone them.

[rory32]

You can adapt this to your circumstances http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/consumer-protection-unfair-trading/147893-complaint-about-being-threatened.html

[UnmoderatetheNet]

I see more and more posts with BCW in the title and would def. report them, BCW are fast moving up the table as one of the most irritating DCA's on the block. Somebody needs to set the ball rolling on this otherwise they will only get even worse if this is possible.

 

And for god's sake NEVER ring them, you have no idea how this simple thing annoys them.

 

If you require further evidence on reasons not to ring, click below

 

Buchanan Clark & Wells

[ScabHunter]

This is quite an unusual case as you have no knowledge of any alleged debt anyway.

 

Can a debt be statute barred if it does not even exist?

 

That is why I would have led with a "Prove It" letter. They have to come up with some evidence that an alleged debt exists before you can even claim it is statute barred.

 

Whatever happens there is no chance of these clowns ever being able to enforce anything (unless there is a CCJ lurking somewhere in the past).

 

Here is what I would have sent -

 

Dear Mental Defectives,

 

You have contacted me/us regarding the account with the above reference number, which you claim is owed by myself/ourselves.

 

I/we would point out that I/we have no knowledge of any such debt being owed to (insert company name).

 

I am/we are familiar with the Office of Fair Trading Debt Collection Guidance which states that it unfair to send demands for payment to an individual when it is uncertain that they are the debtor in question.

 

As I have no knowledge of this alleged debt, I demand that you prove your entitlement to enforce it. No further correspondence will be entered into unless you can prove that this alleged debt exists, and that I am indeed the debtor.

 

As your letter of xx/xx/xxxx already puts you in breach of the Office Of Fair Trading Debt Collection Guidance a complaint has duly been filed. Any further breaches will be added to this complaint.

 

Should you fail to comply with my demand for proof, the matter will be brought to the attention of my own local Trading Standards department, as well as the one in your local area.

 

As you have demanded money with no proof of entitlement, you can regard this letter as the initiation of a formal complaint. I therefore request a copy of your official complaints procedure which you are legally obliged to supply. Should you fail to satisfy this complaint, it will be escalated to the Financial Ombudsman Service.

 

Should you be unable to provide proof that this alleged debt is genuine, then you are in breach of the Data Protection Act 1998 and must cease processing my data immediately. Failure to comply with this will result in a complaint to the Information Commissioner and may result in court action.

 

Also, note that while the account relating to the reference number above remains in strong dispute, you are not allowed to pass it on to any third party. Should you do so, further complaints will be made to the relevant authorities outlined above.

 

I look forward to your reply that this matter is now closed and that you have totally removed my data from your system.

 

Yours Faithfully,

 

xxxxxxxxxxx

 

Should they not comply, which they wouldn't, then the proper complaints would be instigated.

 

Any further threatagrams would be filed for future reference. If you have an email address for them, you can just send a simple email saying "I am in receipt of your letter dated xx/xx/xxxx. This letter is unlawful and has been forwarded to the relevant authorities."

 

They should give up, as if you can get enough evidence to get the FOS involved, they will lose £450. They will certainly know that they cannot gain anything. Even if they farm it out to the next bunch of bottom feeders, they are still acting unlawfully and opening themselves up to further complaints.

 

Any other bottom feeders buying this turkey can just be sent the same letter.

 

If by some miracle someone proves the alleged debt exists and is yours, then you can send them the statute barred letter.

 

SH

[Glepa014]

Aaarghh - what is it with these people. Having now sent a letter along the lines rory32 put me in the direction of, I have now received (dated 5th November so its 'possible' they may have issued this before even dealing with the letter I sent), I receive :

 

"Despite repeated requests for payment, your overdue debt, in the sum of £1834.45 with our clients Aktiv Capital remains outstanding. Accordingly, documents can now be prepared for the issue of a Claim against you in your Local Court.

 

ONCE JUDGEMENT HAS BEEN GRANTED THE FOLLOWING CAN TAKE PLACE

 

i) Your debt being increades to include Legal Costs and Interest

ii) Your name being entered in the Public Records of your Local Court

iii) Your credit worthiness beinf adversely affected for future Credit and Mortgage Applications

 

IF THERE IS CONTINUING NON-PAYMENT THEREAFTER

 

i) An Application is made to your employer for an Attachment of Earnings

ii) An Officer of the Court can be instructed to Seize your Assets"

 

The letter then states that I should phone their premium number, and settle in full OR that I can complete a direct debit mandate (which they helpfully attached) and pay in monthly instalments.

 

I am beginning to get seriously p*ssed at these people - per my earlier postings, I am yet to be provided with any evidence of a debt, statute barred or otherwise (excepting one badly photocpied and entirely blanked out piece of paper showing nothing but my signature).

 

Will the OFT actually do anything if I now make a formal complaint ? Considering this has now been ongoing for at least one year in which I have acknowledged no debt...and been provided no evidence of such...

[ODC]

You have told them the alleged debt is Statute Barred. You do not need to reitterate your position other than to make a formal complaint to BCW, Trading standards, the OFT and your MP. They are in clear breach of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008.

 

You need to bring this matter to a swift conclusion and by merely sending them a prove it letter they will continue with their stupid threatograms.

[Glepa014]

Thanks - do you think this is sufficiently strong ?

 

I write further to you letter of 30th October and your additional demand of 5th November (I note that despite the ten days specified in the former, there are in fact only six days between these two dates).

You will recall – or may wish to review your records in order to bring yourselves up to speed – that, in my letter of 1st July, I requested that you comply with the OFT guidelines in dealing with this matter.

At the same time, I brought to your attention the Limitation Act 1980 and also the OFT opinion regarding section 40 (1) of the Administration of Justice Act 1970.

The ‘repeated requests’ for payment that you refer to in your demand of 5th November have been repeatedly responded to with the very simple request that you provide the details required by law to substantiate these.

Despite MY repeated requests that you substantiate the debt with a legible copy of the relevant credit agreement and a full statement of account clearly demonstrating the alleged liability, you have responded with nothing more than ever more threatening demands for payment.

As such, and as clearly advised in my letter of 1st July, I am now passing this matter to the Office of Fair Trading, the Trading Standards Dept and the Trading Standards Service in Scotland as you are in clear breach of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008.

[42man]

Am I right in saying you are in Scotland ? as the statute barred timescale is 5 years and not 6....

 

If you are in Scotland then this is the statute barred letter

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Acc/Ref No 4563210025897412

 

You have contacted me regarding the account with the above reference number, which you claim is owed by myself.

 

I would point out that under The Prescription and Limitation (Scotland) Act 1973 Part 1 Section 6 "If, after the appropriate date, an obligation to which this section applies has subsisted for a continuous period of 5 years:

 

(a) without any relevant claim having been made in relation to the obligation, and

(b) without the subsistence of the obligation having been relevantly acknowledged,

then as from the expiration of that period the obligation shall be extinguished:"

 

I would also point out that the OFT say under their Debt Collection Guidance on statute barred debt that "it is unfair to pursue the debt if the debtor has heard nothing from the creditor during the relevant limitation period".

 

The last acknowledgement of this alleged debt was made over five years ago. Unless you can provide evidence of payment or written contact from myself in the relevant period under Part 1 Section 6 of The Prescription and Limitation (Scotland) Act 1973 , I would respectfully suggest that you are no longer able to take any court action against myself to recover the alleged amount claimed.

 

Should you continue to pursue this account without providing this evidence I shall seek an interdict and damages accordingly. A formal complaint will also be made to Trading Standards along with a report to the OFT questioning your fitness to hold a consumer credit license.

 

I await your written confirmation that this matter is now closed and that no further contact will be made concerning the above account after that last letter.

 

I look forward to your reply.

 

Yours faithfully

Mr A N Other

[Glepa014]

No - I'm actually in England - the reference to TSS Scotland is simply as they are trading from and registered in scotland and I therefore am not sure if English or Scottish trading standards apply...

[ODC]

Dear Sir

 

I refer to your recent letters ths contents of which are noted. My position as advised in my letter dated xxxxxx remains unchanged. For the avoidance of any doubt I am further restating the position. This alleged debt is subject S5 of the Limitation Act 1980 and I will not be entering into any further discussion with you regarding it. Any further letters or threats of action will be passed to Trading Standards with a view to prosecution under CPUTR 2008.

 

I trust this makes my position clear.

 

yours etc