1st Credit (finance) limited - RBOS CreditCard/Style Store Card

[Dipply75]

deary me, it amazes me they still put crap like that in writing, do they not know CAG is watching lol

 

I think Natwest are part of the RBS group now - don't know if they always were...just wait and see what they come up with then you can write to them and tell them how to do their jobs hehe

 

Muppets. I just do not get tired of saying that about them

[babybear39]

They do, and we know they're watching and learning from us...The site owners should charge

[ODC]

They do, and we know they're watching and learning from us...The site owners should charge

They are too stupid to learn from their mistakes though.

[babybear39]

Perhaps I should rephrase that by saying they're being forwarned

[ODC]

Of course we only tell them what we want them to know. Its up to them to sort out the disinformation from the useful bits.

[Youngandsilly]

Just a little update -

 

12+2 working days have passed, and other than the acknowledgement letter in post 22 not heard anything yet =)

 

Fingers crossed =)

[Youngandsilly]

Just a little update -

 

12+2 working days have passed, and other than the acknowledgement letter in post 22 not heard anything yet =)

 

Fingers crossed =)

 

Well bollocks, it would seem that they've send a CCA, and I'm quite sure it has all the prescribed terms and conditions on it -

 

Came with the

 

We attatch an Edited copy of the signed agreement in respect of the above account and would ask for your comments

 

1) If you confirm that the signature is yours we will of course sned you a complete copy of the relevant document. We would also invite your proposals for settling this outstanding debt.

 

2) IF this is not your signature... confirm with passport/driving license... blah blah

 

3) If we believe a fraud has taken place against you blah blah....

 

Thank you for your assistance in this matter.

 

Think i'm screwed.

 

Will post up the scanned documents on Tuesday, but does anyone have some advice?

 

 

EDIT - Hmm, I just been looking closely at the documents I've received and the CCA form looks like my information has been copied and pasted from the application form... Will post up the images shortly.

Edited August 2, 2008 by Youngandsilly

[babybear39]

Surely 1st crud wouldn't do that would they

[Captain Spaulding]

Jesus, will be interesting to see this!

[Youngandsilly]

Well I think I'm well and truly bummed - Went back and had a look at the signature and although I was sure I only signed a single page application form, I think my signature is ligite.

 

Unfortunately the scanner I have scans as PDF, so have attached here, though looking through other threads etc, I think it does indeed have all the prescribed terms etc, although it isn't signed by the creditor, as I understand it, it's a bit of an iffy issue if it goes to court.

 

I'd appreciate some advice on the CCA and what to do next if possible =)

Scan001.PDF

[Captain Spaulding]

Hmm.... the letter from wurst crudit is standard template job. To me I feel this has all the prescribed terms however this is not definite.

 

Can someone who knows pass comment please?

[ODC]

Now I may be wrong here BUT. You make a S77/78 request to our dear friends in Reigate. They are legally obliged within 12 working days to send you a properly executed copy of your CCA NOT an edited copy. Nowhere in the 1974 Act does it stipulate where you have to confirm the signature is yours or not. What these wretched people have sent you does NOT comply with your LEGAL REQUEST. The act does not stipulate they can send you an edited copy. If the 12 working days are up I would report them to TS and the OFT for non compliance of your Legal CCA request.

 

I suspect this is a ploy or yet another mindgame by these people. I know of another site wher I should be able to get an answer from someone very close to the people in Reigate as to their reasoning behind this letter.

[babybear39]

They're also breaching OFT guidlines by asking to confirm your signature and sending information to an alledged debtor when they are uncertain if you are the person they're looking for:

 

Deceptive and/or unfair methods

2.7 Dealings with debtors are not to be deceitful and/or unfair.

2.8 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

a. sending demands for payment to an individual when it is uncertain that

they are the debtor in question, for example, threatening debt recovery

action to 'the occupier' or sending a payment demand to all people sharing

the same name/date of birth as a debtor in the hope that contact with the

correct debtor will be made.

b. disclosing debt details to an individual when it is uncertain that they are

the debtor in question, for example, disclosing details to 'the occupier' of

an address.

c. refusing to deal with appointed or authorised third parties, such

as Citizens Advice Bureaux, independent advice centres or money

advisers

d. contacting debtors directly and bypassing their appointed representatives

e. operating a policy, without reason, of refusing to negotiate with

debt management companies

f. passing on debtor details to debt management companies without the

debtors' informed prior consent

g. failing to refer on to the creditor reasonable offers to pay by instalments

h. not passing on payments received within a reasonable time resulting in

delays that adversely affect a debtor's financial position.

i. failing to investigate and/or provide details as appropriate, when a debt is

queried or disputed, possibly resulting in debtors being wrongly pursued

j. requiring an individual to supply information to prove they are not the

debtor in question, for example, driving licences, passports, full name,

date of birth, signatures

 

Hi ODC Do you mean the site I'm thinking of

[Youngandsilly]

Thanks for that ODC and Babybear!

 

I feel I should point out, that although most of the information i've attached is edited out, on the original document I was sent, only the email address and security password were blanked out - the rest I did myself to post here.

 

Should I be sending anything back to these people?

[ODC]

Hi ODC Do you mean the site I'm thinking of

Yes and I think a certain person will have the inside line on the latest thinking of our 'friends'

[babybear39]

Yes and I think a certain person will have the inside line on the latest thinking of our 'friends'

 

Ooh, I do hope so...Can't wait for this evening's installment

[ODC]

IMHO they have not complied with you LEGAL REQUEST under the CCA. You are not obliged to confirm the signature is yours. If they are not sure you are the person in question then they are breaking Data Protection by sending you the threatomatics in the first place. Coversly if they are so sure that you are the person in question then they must comply with your LEGAL REQUEST.

[Youngandsilly]

IMHO they have not complied with you LEGAL REQUEST under the CCA. You are not obliged to confirm the signature is yours. If they are not sure you are the person in question then they are breaking Data Protection by sending you the threatomatics in the first place. Coversly if they are so sure that you are the person in question then they must comply with your LEGAL REQUEST.

 

In that case, is anyone able to help me draft a letter back to 1st Credit then?

 

I'm unsure about how to put my arguement across in a way that'll make these people think (although as I understand it, that may be difficult).

[babybear39]

Send them this, though it may take time for them to find someone who can read and understand it:

 

Courtesy of Curlyben...

 

Account In Dispute

Ref:

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Thank you for your letter of xx/xx/xx, the contents of which have been noted.

 

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

 

On **DATE** I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. A copy of which is enclosed for your perusal and ease of reference.

You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on **DATE**.

 

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document.In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

 

Furthermore

 

 

You are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before your client enters into a default situation.

 

 

These limits have expired.

 

As you are no doubt aware section 77(6) states:

 

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

 

(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

 

And

 

(b) If the default continues for one month he commits an offence.

 

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

 

As you have Failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, Failed to send a full statement of the account and Failed to provide any of the documentation requested.

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

 

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

 

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

 

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

 

Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY

Action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

 

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Amend to suit, do not sign, print your name, send recorded keeping a copy with your postal receipt. Also, add a line that they are in breach of the Unfair Commercial Practices Directive, OFT guidlines and the CPUTR 2008.

[luckysandpiper]

1st Credit acquired a card debt in October 2008 value £4500 (approx).

I offered payment by instalments to be made by bank standing order and received their letters of acceptance 14th and 21st October 2008 (duplicates), but they asked for payment by 'open' direct debit (ie no amount specified)

As a result I pay by cheque every month.

They are now using a collection agency and a firm of solicitors to accuse me of non-compliance and not having made any arrangement (only 1st Credit cannot see that the terms are exclusive) and persist in threatening legal action.

In my defence I have:

 

Every letter that has been sent to me

A copy of every letter I have sent

A full record of the payments I have made

 

In addition I will NOT discuss the debt on the telephone with ANYONE other than those who might help me (CAB, National Debtline etc) and say so in print.

 

I have also lodged a complaint with the OFT about their tactics and I am pleased to note that they have already taken action.

 

Moral: keep accurate records/deal only in writing/take advice before acting (National Debtline are free and first class - CAB work to their guidelines)

[babybear39]

Hello and welcome to CAG lucky

 

It would be best if you started your own thread.

[luckysandpiper]

Thanks for you reply. I'm always open to new advice.

I'm new here - how do I go about posting my comment as a new thread?

[babybear39]

Go back to the list of threads in the debt collection industry section then scroll down and you'll see a new thread button on your lefthand side...

[Youngandsilly]

Well an update on this my friends -

 

I've just had a phonecall (to my work phone number no less, not sure how they got that...) from First Credit to inform me that in order to get the details I requested last year that they require a £10 payment.

 

Now I was rather miffed with them on the phone, seeing as my manager took the phonecall, and I had to deal with it while she was sitting there. Explained quite clearly that under a SAR request then yes, I would need to pay the £10 fee, however I didn't request information under a SAR, and that it was a CCA request and I paid the £1 fee - Further went on to state how unhappy I was that they contacted me at work, informed them not to ring me again and I would only deal with it through correspondance.

 

Most unimpressed - So they said they'd send me a letter with what they actually need. Wonder what mince they'll send now....

[babybear39]

Sebs this to the numpties in Reigate:

 

- HARASSMENT WARNING -

WARNING; PROTECTION FROM HARASSMENT ACT 1997;

WARNING; COMMUNICATIONS ACT 2003. s127.

 

Telephone Number: {Your Telephone Number}

Re: Harassment by telephone

 

Dear Sir/Madam.

 

I am writing in relation to telephone calls that I have received from your organisation, which I deem to be personally harassing. I have verbally requested that these calls stop, but I am still receiving call. I now require the telephone number listed above to be completely removed from your systems.

 

I am in the view that your continued telephone calls put you in breach of the Protection of Harassment Act 1997.

 

This is a private telephone line, operated on a contract with the intention of receiving and making personal phone calls, I have not authorised any other member of my family to receive calls from your organisation using this PRIVATE TELEPHONE LINE.

 

By using this telephone number without my permission you are interferring with my ability to use my own private property for the duration of any call.

 

It is my right to require that this telephone line, which is licenced solely to myself, is kept clear for my own personal calls.

 

It is consquently my view that you are commiting the tort of interference with contract insofar as for the duration of each call you make to me without my permission, you are interfering with my contractual right to receive and make personal calls on my private telephone line.

 

Continued interference with my contractual rights in this manner may result in legal action.

 

If you continue to harass me by telephone, you will also be in breach of the Communications Act (2003) s.127 and I will report you to the Office of Communications, Trading Standards and the Office of Fair Trading, meaning that you may be liable for a substantial fine.

 

Be advised that all telephone calls from your company will be recorded.

 

 

Yours faithfully,

 

Amend to suit, send recorded, PRINT do not sign your name and keep a copy with your postal receipt. Include all numbers they've used to harass you on.