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today we received from northampton county court a claim form filed by cope's solicitors on behalf of arrow global.

the claim form enters an ammount in default of £5000 due to arrow global but fails to mention any agreement or credit data accounts or number references.

we are sending a letter to cope's requesting details of this claim and and to which transaction or credit agreement they are referring too.we have also indicated that we are requesting a cca (pound enclosed) with accompaning letter. if they should locate the agreement that we may have signed.

for information we have filed on line that we disagree with this claim to allow ourselves 28 days to file defence and hopefully receive signed credit agreement from cope's solicitors.

can anyone suggest anything that we may have forgotten or need to prepare for.

also what procedure must i follow to have this case moved to a local court. (i dont drive and still recovering from knee surgery).Tried trawling this site but anable to find the answer.

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I am sure they should have sent a copy of the agreement along with the claim form. Or was it filed through the NOrthampton Bulk Centre ( I believe they dont attach documents when they do it that way).

 

There is a CPR ?? request you can send asking for information which they should then supply you with. You cant of course file a defence unless you know what it is about.

 

You will be able to file an embarrassed/holding defence if they dont supply you with the documents you need.

 

Have you had a look round the legal issues forum to see if there is anything that can help you.


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In the XXXXXXXXX County Court

Claimant -v- (YOUR NAME)

Claim Number: (CLAIM NUMBER)

 

 

Dear XXX

 

REQUEST FOR INFORMATION UNDER PART 18 CPR

 

I have received a recent court claim from your organisation. In order to file a defence and any counter claim I require some information. Given that this matter is now the subject of legal proceedings, you are obliged to disclose under the Civil Procedure Rules, the information and documents detailed below.

 

The information must be furnished within fourteen days of the receipt of this letter. If you fail to comply, this will be reported to the Court, a copy of this letter will be provided as evidence to the same and an application will be made for an Order enforcing your compliance under the provisions of the CPR

If it becomes necessary to make an application for an order forcing your compliance I shall ask the court to consider my costs as well

 

1. A true copy of the executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notice that you or the original creditor sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

1.1 If copies of any of the above documents are to be relied on in court rather than originals, a copy of the Notice of proposal to adduce hearsay evidence required under s2(1) of the Civil Evidence Act 1995 together with proof of the authenticity of the document(s) as required under s8(1)(b) of the Act, including but not limited to:

 

(a) a copy of the procedure(s) used for copying, storing and retrieving documents

(b) a copy of the relevant log entry showing the time and date of the scan or copy, the name of the member of staff making the copy, the method used for copying, storage and retrieval and time and date of destruction of the original document(s)

© copies of internal and external audit reports covering the entire period from the date of the copy to the present to demonstrate that the procedures have been complied with

(d) copies of Quality Assurance accreditation certificates covering the entire period from the date of the copy to the present to demonstrate that the procedure(s) and audit process(es) comply with the appropriate quality standards

 

2. All records you hold on me relevant to this case, including but not limited to:

 

a. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations by your company, or by any previous creditor

b. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my account formerly held with *********.(AMEND TO THE COMPANY NAME)

c. .Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted (if applicable).

d. Details of any collection charge added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

e. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

f. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

g. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

h. Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement.

3. Any other documents you seek to rely on in court.

 

 

I will require this information within the next fourteen days. I must advise you that if the information is not forthcoming, it will be reported to the Court that you are trying to frustrate proceedings and denying me the opportunity to file a defence and counter claim.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

XXXX (type, don't sign).

 

 

 

 

There we go,

 

you need to amend it to suit your circumstances

 

dont send it as it stands as it will look rather silly if they receive an incomprehensible letter

 

I hope this helps

  • Haha 1

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many thanks for your responses citizenb and pt2537.

 

we confirm that claim form had been despatched via Northampton bulk centre, presumably that is why it was bare of any facts.

 

We were going to send a letter requesting details of there claim but as pt 2537 provided a cpr we sent that instead by next day delivery, today 30/6/08.

we did not include any monies is this the correct procedure.or should we have included a £10

 

for information the post office did not recognise the delivery address of cope's solicitors, but as this was the only address provided for submissions and payments, what other choices do we have.

 

We now appear to have to wait on cope's solicitors to respond to cpr request, is this a good time to hit them or global receivables with cca or wait it out.

 

the file date for defence is 27-6-08 +5+28=29-07-08

 

thanks djc

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No, you did not need to include £10.00 with the CPR letter. You only need to send £10.00 if it was an SAR request which this wasnt.

 

It is very frustrating when you take address details off correspondence only to discover that the Royal Mail system doesnt recognise it. I think it is because these companies are part of other companies and have a sort of central mailing department. As long as the address is the one they have given you then that is ok.

 

Will you need to send a CCA letter now you have sent the CPR ?. I suppose it cant do any harm.


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1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy -

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2: Take back control of your finances -

Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors?

Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt

Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated -

Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

 

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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as of todays date have not rec'd reply to cpr request from cope's ( now 14 days and counting ).

 

we have been trawling other site postings and noted that an observation concerning when a ccj has already been decided that a cpr request is not the correct response as it is too late an not admissable as to ones defence.

it would appear that when we initially posted our thread we did not advise fully the facts of this case. we will endeavor to provide this now and seek guidance to how best to proceed.

 

debt personal loan universal credit £5700 plus protected payment of £555.75 plus interest. taken out 31 may, 1991.

ccj action obtained 1993.

 

received letter stating paragon aquired debt 2006.

sometime late december 2006 paragon assigned to arrow gobal.for information we have retained original agreement and protected payment insurance data and letters relating to so called assignment transfers.

 

ideas welcome

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help wanted have we dug a hole for ourselves see previous posting

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help wanted have we dug a hole for ourselves see previous posting

 

 

I am sorry, really dont know the answer to this. Are you saying that a CCJ had already been issued and you are now seeking to set it aside ?


Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy -

HERE

2: Take back control of your finances -

Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors?

Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt

Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated -

Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

 

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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thank you both for your response.

our ccj on this account/loan was in 1993and we became aware that because we have already a ccj awarded against us albeit some14/15 years ago that this may impact our cpr request that has been delivered to cope's.

we are aware that on one's credit file this is removed after 6 years but does a limitation law effect this.

hope this clarifys situation

 

djc

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Ok so they already have a CCJ for this loan? if that is the case what are they suing you for now?

 

ITs really quite confusing as nothing seems to make sense and tally up

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we beleive that whilst we have paid £7.00 per month without missing a payment and on time that derisory ammount(there words not ours) is insufficient and they are seeking the whole debt to be paid.whereby we now face court claim.

hope the light is a little clearer for understanding.

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for further information we did consider trying to overturn this old ccj but because of its age we considered this would be extremly difficult to execute'

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hiya site team

have we provided enough information to enable you to answer the question posed if not please let me know.

 

from where i am sitting it appears crystal clear but then i may be biased.

 

starting to get concerned if your just busy we apoligise for impatience.

 

djc

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Hi,

I think the problem is that there is already a CCJ on this account, so it is absurd that they are starting a new claim, there is no need, they would simply apply for a charge over your home if you hadnt been paying,

 

once they have a CCJ and the judge has ordered payment at the rate of £7 per month then thats it £7 per month, they should be asking the court ot redetermine the amount paid not bringing a new claim

 

do they know that there is a CCJ on the account?

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Have you a copy of the 1993 judgment order? If so, make application to strike out the current proceedins and attach a copy of the order to the N.244 application form. The court has already ajudicated on the issues and you have a defence of estoppel if the court fails to grant the application.

 

Do not send any more letters to the solicitors which are headed 'part 18 request' etc. The letters have no basis in law and are simply wrong, premature and illconceived. All these issues (defective pleadings) are best dealt with under CPR Pt. 3 applications.

 

You have excellent prospects of success with the current proceedings and any attempt to enforce the 15 year old judgment may also fail, although that is a little more nuanced. I do not have the time to advise in full, but I suggest you seek advice from a litigation solicitor and request they make the application to strike out for abuse of process - they will acheive an order for costs when you win, against the claimant and therefore should be willing to deal on a no win no fee basis (conditional fee agreement).

 

Please do not attempt to do this yourself. The info on this site is very general and much is wrong/misconcieved (the silly letters being a prime example). This is nuanced and needs a little thought. I have no problem with you printing this and showing to your solicitor. They will understand, if they do not, sack them and find one who does.

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when judgement was awarded it was for £26-00 per month but we negotiated down to £7-00 per month a few years ago.

it is possible that they are not aware of ccj obtained by original loan provider.

the claim form from the northampton court states

" in breach of the said agreement the defendant failed to make payment or comply with a default notice served by the assignee the agreement was terminated accordingly".

 

we also received a letter from cope's threatening court action follows if the sum of £5001.11 is not paid within 7 days. letter dated 16 april, 2008.

 

we have never received a default notice from cope's or anyone else.

 

but hopefully the cpr request should cover this shortfall and determine who presumably owns this supposed debt.

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Have you a copy of the 1993 judgment order? If so, make application to strike out the current proceedins and attach a copy of the order to the N.244 application form. The court has already ajudicated on the issues and you have a defence of estoppel if the court fails to grant the application.

 

Do not send any more letters to the solicitors which are headed 'part 18 request' etc. The letters have no basis in law and are simply wrong, premature and illconceived. All these issues (defective pleadings) are best dealt with under CPR Pt. 3 applications.

 

You have excellent prospects of success with the current proceedings and any attempt to enforce the 15 year old judgment may also fail, although that is a little more nuanced. I do not have the time to advise in full, but I suggest you seek advice from a litigation solicitor and request they make the application to strike out for abuse of process - they will acheive an order for costs when you win, against the claimant and therefore should be willing to deal on a no win no fee basis (conditional fee agreement).

 

Please do not attempt to do this yourself. The info on this site is very general and much is wrong/misconcieved (the silly letters being a prime example). This is nuanced and needs a little thought. I have no problem with you printing this and showing to your solicitor. They will understand, if they do not, sack them and find one who does.

 

The problem , which from your posts seems to elude you is the fact that many of the people who come to this site for help on a variety of matters simply in most cases cannot afford to seek advice from counsel, otherwise arguably they would do so.

 

Many of the people who help out on this site do so from their own experience of the courts system and their own cases

 

I personally, not as a member of the site team but on my own back feel your comments are quite insulting to the people who have offered help with the best intentions

 

Silly letters? how rude and offensive

 

please feel free to offer help, but remember that people do get offended when people who only have a small amount of posts to their name, who fail to qualify their knowledge or position within the legal system (if at all) start making insulting jibes at posts which have been made to offer help

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Hi DJC,

 

The 'CPR request' is of no effect. It is a letter that is totally irrelevant in the circumstances. I have given you advice that will result in success, probably without a hearing - they will receive the application and consent to the same of that I am confident. Alternativley, you can play about with letters which have no legal basis and they will probably get judgment and you'll be paying to set aside. Take definitive action and win. Do it tomorrow and without further delay.

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aloysiush

thank you for your responses we are now deliberating the contents.

 

we believe our original posting failed to provide all of the facts concerning this situation but hopefully all the relative data is now known to enable the process of fighting this court order. our problem with litigation sources is on a number of cases when we have sought help or advice the time schedule was an issue or they flatly did not want to know but that was 15 years ago and times change.but we will sleep on it tonight.

regards

 

djc

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aloysuish

 

for information and to answer your original question yes we have found the original shoreditch county court judgement dated 26 jan 1993.

 

djc

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PT2537,

 

Sorry if I have upset you, but any local solicitor will take this on at no cost and be happy to recover inter-parties costs as his fee. These people need advice with action in mind - not misconceived letters which are generally laughed at by lawyers (trust me I know). For every 'battle' win as a result of the letters, there are hundreds who get tied up in knots as a consequence of same (again, I know) and end up in a worse situation. Many people not posting, use the letters and they are being pounded out there in the real world.

 

I have come onto this site as a result of making capital out of the advice people receive here. It needs to be put right and people told how to conduct litigation to best advantage. I have been in court and seen people admonished for using letters and defences they did not understand and using misconceived understanding legal precedents - obtained from people posting herein.

 

If it is felt I should post no longer - then so be it!

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DJC,

 

thats great news. Now do as I say and you will win. If you do it yourself, you need an N.244 from the HMC website (in forms section). I will post later with detail of how to complete the form and what to say in section C. This is a total turkey shoot and you cannot fail - really. The rules/law totally on your side.

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aloysiush

are suggesting that if we win that the total debt be written off. or this action is stopped with costs awarded but we will still have to continue paying our £ 7-00 pound per month into our retirement dotage.

please remember we are already into our retirement and its great but personally we do not recommend actions of this nature its is far to distressing work is better.

 

djc

 

ps i am sure that pt2537 has a point but use it to our great forums advantage and keep posting.

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I couldnt agree more, no one wants you to refrain from posting Aloysuish, definatley not;)

all i was trying to say, was simply , please , if you want to guide someone to make an application under CPR part 3.4 then give them the full story, i agree with your ethic and i agree that the correct method for a lawyer would be the N244 app to strike out

 

but , i am also aware that as laymen, the litigant in person is afforded certain indulgences and in those situations, where someone can show the court that they have made every effort to obtain information to defend a claim as a lit in person then the judges do afford certain leeway

 

i would love to take many of our members through the procedure that you mention but simply many of them wouldnt understand it and that is why we havent in many cases without meaning any disrespect to them

 

As i said previous, i would love to see you offer the knowledge and advice to the members of this forum ( you clearly show that you are knowledgeable in the court procedures and law ) and that is what we need

 

Im sorry for any misunderstandings

 

Kind regards

 

Paul

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