go bankrupt now or wait

[bkendo]

here's my story,

my wife and i have resigned ourselves to declaring ourselves bankrupt.

our house was valued for remortging purposes just over a year ago @ £190,000 we owe ( with redemptions ) about £160,000, but with dropping house prices and houses in my area not selling well ( ONE HOUSE HAS BEEN ON THE MARKET FOR 18 MONTHS ) i reckon if we sold today we would be lucky to get £175,000

anyway with one thing and another we now cant afford the mortage of £1100 per month plus two months arrears repayments of £100

so if we lose the house its not such a big deal

council tax arrears of about £4000.

provi loans about £5000

various other debts of about £5000

i also bought a car in jan of this year ( jag x type, my wife said it was a mid life crisis thing)

cars showroom price was £7500, i managed to get hp from welcome finance but now i seem to owe £17,000to be paid over 4 years

 

what im asking is this,do i go bankrupt now,if i do would i be able to keep the car which i need for my work,or wait as long as possible and give the car back to welcome now ( missed thelast two payments )

[bkendo]

sorry9 ive probably missed loads of details out

and my dots and commas are probablly in the wrong places

i would be happy to answer any questions anyone would like to ask

and i would very much appreciate any response at all

by the way iwas bankrupt about 14 years ago ( FAILED BUSINESS )

MY WIFE AND I ARE NOT LOSING ANY SLEEP OVER THIS

WHEN ITS ALL OVER IT WILL BE A WEIGHT OFF OUR SHOULDER

THATS THE WAY WE ARE LOOKING AT IT

[miss muppet]

Good that you are being so positive about this Bkendo, can't give you any useful advice but no doubt someone will wake up soon who can:)

[bkendo]

thanks miss muppet,

at least someones reading it

the way i look at it is what will be will be

ALWAYS LOOK ON THE BRIGHT SIDE OF LIFE

[IdaInFife]

Hi and Welcome to CAG.

 

AS you know going bankrupt is not always the easies optiont. It's the afterlife that tends to be worse.

 

I am not the msot knowledgeable and I am sure Rory will be along at some point.

 

If you have all the relevant docs etc if you contact your local trading standards money advice centre they can make an appointment to see you and go over everthing with you and cover all the basis.

 

 

But taking action is better than burying your head in the sand so you are deffinatly in the right frame of mind.

 

 

Sorry I couldn't help more

 

 

ida x

[bkendo]

thanks for your reply ida

the time after my bankruptcy is what we are looking forward to most,

no more debt letters,no more phone calls from idiots,no more scrimping and scraping every penny just to pay the minimum monthly payments.

hey we cant afford to stay here any longer anyway,

 

 

so all im really wanting to know is how is the best way of going about this so that i can keep as much as possible ( legaly of course )

 

for example if i declare myself bankrupt today can welcome finance repocess the car ( which they will do in the next week or so ) ,or would that be up to the account in bankruptcy

 

still smiling

[IdaInFife]

I think you would lose the car if there is an outstanding balance. If you check the t&c's it is noramlly in there amounts need to be paid to hand car back and if you default and they take the car back how much is left to paid etc etc.

 

I do not think the accountee had any sway in this.

 

ida x

[Dipply75]

Hi Bkendo

 

Can I ask if you are in England or Scotland and are you looking for full bankruptcy?

[blue4ever]

Hi bkendo

try this link The Insolvency Service Website

This site will explain things you need to know about bankrupcy

good luck paul

NEVER TALK TO A ---D.C.A ON THE TELEPHONE

GET EVERYTHING IN WRITING

WELCOME TO C.A.G

forum-rules-please-read

how-do-i-dummies

faqs-please-read-these

 

------------------------------------

Any Advice given by me is based on solely on my experiance or opnion. I have no Legal background.

If i have helped in any way please feel free to click my scales

Thank You blue4ever:grin:

[rory32]

by the way iwas bankrupt about 14 years ago ( FAILED BUSINESS )

 

You'll be happy to know then that the bankruptcy laws in Scotland have softened and are more in line with English laws http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/statutes-library/132719-bankruptcy-diligence-etc-scotland.html

[bkendo]

thanks everyone for your responses,

 

dipply i live in scotland, but im not sure what you mean by full bankruptcy i thouhgt there was only one type

 

blue4ever thanks for the link,i think ive read as much as i can about it but i,ll certainly have a look

 

rory ive been told your the man to talk to,as i said ive been through it all before so not too bothered, ( worst things happening arround the world ) i know things have changed since last time,ie bankruptcy only lasts a year now instead of three

 

what im not sure about is timing

i need a couple of months in this house so i can save a deposit,first months rent etc on a rented house

i dont plan to pay anything else to my mortgage ( whats the use )

 

i know i will get myself and my family back on our feet when this is all settled

 

i would also like it if anyone had an answer to my car situation

 

once again thanks to all of you for taking the time trying to help it restores my faith in humanity

 

still smiling

[rory32]

The car situation really depends how much the car is worth.

[TideTurner]

bkendo,

 

If you file for bankruptcy you will be asked to list all assets, including all outstanding debts, together with current income and expenditure details. This will trigger the finance company being notified, and it is likely they will want to recover the car ASAP. Watch out for any additional costs and expenses they add to your account.

 

Tide

 

BTW - it is rumoured that car prices will follow house prices in the plummet, especially gas guzzlers. Why did you buy an x-type with all that debt?

[tanglewood01]

I would second tideturners question about the x-type jag. In bankruptcy they look at your spending behavior leading up to it and this can affect the terms of your bankruptcy. I have known people to be allowed to keep a car when their job depends on it but I'm not sure how favorably buying a luxury car shortly prior to filing for bankruptcy will be looked upon.

 

I don't mean to be negative so please don't take it that way and echo the sentiments of others regarding your positive attitude and the fact you are seeking support.

[bkendo]

thanks once again for your reponses,

 

as far as why the x type, as i said earlier probably some kind of mid life crisis, i certainly didnt buy it thinking in 6 month time i,ll just declare myself bankrupt, so no dishonesty was meant i promise you

as for additional costs from welcome finance what differance does it make if im bankrupt

 

i am a surveyor for a small company so i am out on the road all the time one of the reasons i got the job was that i owned my own car

 

jag is an 03 plate, showroom price was £7500 if it went through a market today probably £5000 ( guessing )

 

what im thinking is if im bankrupt can the finance company take the car or would the car not be sen as an asset so welcome can not be seen to be a preffered debtor

 

 

[TideTurner]

You haven't mentioned what you would do if you sold your house. Downsize? Rent? Looking at the equity you still have, could you not downsize all round, house and car, pay off a few of your debts, possibly consolidate them, and then sit tight until the climate starts improving again?

 

Do you have any dependents?

[bkendo]

hi tideturner

 

please dont think im not appreciative of any advice

but i dont think you have read the whole thread,im not planning to sell my house as by the time i eventually got it sold i would be so far behind in my repayments that it would all go to the mortgage company, if they haven,t repossed it by then anyway

 

as i have already said i plan to rent for the forseeable future,try to get back on my feet and then after that who knows

 

so im not really asking IF i should go bankrupt rather when i should do it

 

i have three children who are still all at school

 

[TideTurner]

Sorry bkendo, got deflected. The whole procedure from start to finish (if you initially fight any repossession proceedings) usually takes between 3-6 months (if you let their collections dept know when contacted that any arrears will be cleared). If your financial position doesn't change (you could win the lottery) but seriously, work could improve etc. If you do not keep up any promise you make to them, they will then consider repossession. They don't normally consider proceedings until you have missed 3 payments. They have to be seen to have been fair and given you every opportunity to correct your position.

 

The 3-6 months depends on which lender you are with, some are more aggressive than others - see

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mortgages-secured-loans/142793-tilly-mortgage-express-repo-new-post.html .

 

If you downsize your car you may be able to convince the Court that it is essential to your livelihood, and losing it will put you out of work. It is likely the finance company will come after the car as the finance will be secured against it, and at the moment cannot be seen as one of your assets, as the loan will be bigger than the value of the car. They will also be monitoring any missed payments, so if you can keep these up, you won't alert them to your difficulties until later on.

 

You need to have a strategy regarding moving - alternative accomodation, schools, post redirection, bank details, distress etc in place just in case (see the thread above).

 

Have to say, you are taking this very well. If you do this right, you should buy yourself a bit of time while you save and sort the important things in the background.

 

Also, have you searched for any bankruptcy threads on here? Haven't read all of this one but may give you some tips. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/147315-bankruptcy-petition.html?highlight=bankruptcy .

 

And quote:

 

If you are made bankrupt you do not lose everything you own. What you are allowed to keep is the following:-

 

tools, vehicles etc which you use in your job

 

clothing, bedding, furniture, household equipment that you and your family need.

 

You will usually be allowed to keep a cheap car (less than £2000) anything more than that and you will have to sell it and replace it with a car worth less than £2k.

 

Also, if you own any really expensive equipment eg top-end hifi or audio-visual equipment then you may be expected to sell that. You know the sort of thing I mean - if you've got a £1000 plasma TV you'll probably be expected to replace it with a much cheaper one.

Which is taken from this thread http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/148758-bankruptcy-what-does-actually.html?highlight=bankruptcy

 

Hope this helps

 

Tide

[rory32]

what im thinking is if im bankrupt can the finance company take the car or would the car not be sen as an asset so welcome can not be seen to be a preffered debtor

The Trustee's interest will only be in any equity, which exists in the car. If the car is subject to hire purchase, this will be taken into consideration when determining any available equity. If your car is required to travel to and from work and you make a monthly contribution from your income, you may be allowed to retain the car. If your car is not required for this purpose, or if significant value could be realised from its sale, your Trustee may require the car to be sold. He may, however, allow you sufficient funds to buy a car of lower value for your continued use - normally about £1K.

[gizmo111]

The issue of the car is up to you and Welcome, it won't come into the bankruptcy if the payments are up to date, as you do not own the car.

 

You will provide an income and expenditure form to the OR and he will agree the amounts and decide how much of your surplus income you need to pay for the next three years. It is then up to you to meet the car payments out of your budget.

 

If after BR you fell behind on the payments, you are in danger then of having a large debt, the car repossessed and no option to include the debt in he bankruptcy. Personally, I would get the money together for a cheaper car, let this onego and any related shortfall be included in the BR. Stay in the house for as long as possible, and get the money together for fees, rent, deposit new car etc. You will be allowed to keep a vehicle worth around £2K for work purposes.

 

(This is how it would work in England, Rory may know of slight differences in Scotland)

[TideTurner]

I agree with Gizmo, I would also hang onto the car for as long as possible while getting the money together for a run around (car prices are falling so you could pick up a bargain). Take note of my post above regarding personal possessions, and ensure the OR is aware of your dependents and family needs when the time comes. Car boot sale coming up then??

[gizmo111]

It is unlikely that the OR will be interested in your possessions, unless you have some very valuable items that would raise a decent sum from selling them. Things like teles and hi-fi's have a very low 2nd hand value and would not be worth the OR's time. Especially as the majority of your debt will be made up from a repossesion, and not extravagant spending sprees.

[rory32]

You may wish to read through some guides on bankruptcy in Scotland from the Accountant in Bankruptcy's site (this is the Scottish equivalent of the position of Official Receiver in England/Wales) http://www.aib.gov.uk/guidance/publications/debtbankruptcy/bankruptcypostapril08

 

Also from their website:

Examples of essential items are the following items if used in the debtor's family home:

• Beds, bedding, household linen and curtains
  
• Food, cooking equipment and kitchen utensils
  
• Refrigerators, washing machines and microwave ovens
  
• Chairs, settees, tables and other furniture
  
• Lights, fittings and heating appliances
  
• Floor coverings
  
• Articles used for cleaning, drying, mending, or pressing clothes
  
• Articles used for cleaning the house
  
• Articles used for safety in the house
  
• Tools used for maintenance or repair of the house and household articles
  
• Computers and accessory equipment
  
• Radios, telephones and televisions
  

[bkendo]

hi

 

once more thank you all very much

 

some brilliant advice

 

i think i now know what im going to do

 

welcome can take the car back whenever they want,it was a total moment of madness when i bought it anyway and i can go and buy an old banger to do me in the mean time

 

i will try and fight repossession of the house for as long as possible, if i can get another 2 or 3 months here i should be able to save enough for a deposit, first months rent etc for a rented home

 

i will put off going bk for as long as possible so that all my debts ( car ,house etc) can be swallowed up by it

 

i,ll also make sure im totally preperred for the move when it comes

 

at the end of the day we are not going to be any worse off than we are just now,

 

[TideTurner]

Sounds like a plan to me. Admiration for keeping such a level head, post any updates, and keep revising the plan, and the Clan!!

 

Keep an eye on the mail, and act swiftly - keep posting here if you're unsure about anything, there still may be a better solution.

 

All the best

 

Tide