HFC/Restons/Charging order/Phoenix

[interweb]

Hi Everyone

 

Please Please Please help!

 

Recap

 

1) Had beneficial card for over 11 years - never missed a payment!

 

2) Last summer after 18 months without a job and marriage problems told them i couldnt pay full payments anymore. They accepted nominal payments.

 

3) 3 or 4 months ago Restons got involved and issued a summons thorugh court.

 

4) I contacted a 'cheap' solicitor and he wrote Restons a letter but fuc...ed up replying to the court summons.

 

5) A judgement was made against me and Restons applied for a charging order against my house.

 

6) My accountant wrote to court saying that HFC had failed to supply me with copy of contract

- I did not make a formal request, but the solicitor had asked for a copy due to exhorbitant charges -. Accountant also said HFC were preferring themselves to other creditors etc. etc.

I couldnt go to court as i had just started a new job but everything was in the letter from my accountant.

 

7) Court still agreed with charging order.

 

Restons have now written to me saying I can't sell the house until their debt is discharged and they can apply to court for Order of possession and sale of the property unless I make proper installments etc.

 

Can HFC prevent me from selling and force me to sell?????

 

 

The first charge is the mortgage company and

the second charge is my wife who has 75% equity share,

the remaining 25% is my share.

 

 

I have 3 children aged 5, 7 and 11. The eldest is disabled.

Also my parents who are pensioners live with us.

 

 

If the house was sold quickly today it would pay off the mortgage with not alot remaining in any case.

 

I came across this site too late.

It looks like form the previous mails that I should still i still ask for a copy of my agreement in the correct manner but am not too sure what I can do if they can't provide one or justify their charges??

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks

[rory32]

Can HFC prevent me from selling and force me to sell

 

In theory yes but judges don't like granting sale orders if they can avoid it.

There are a number of factors that a judge would take into account,

such as it is the family home,

you have young children,

you have a disabled child

and that you have elderly parents living there.

 

In these circumstances a judge would not grant a sale order.

 

Do you know what the judgement was on the charging order?

 

Normally there are conditions attached

and it is also normal for you to be able to sell your property even when there is a charging order as these are transferable from property to property

(although obviously you won't get a great interest rate if you have a charging order registered against you).

 

 

The judgement normally states if any interest has been awarded on the charge.

 

 

Also if you have a copy of the CCJ and let us know the judgement/figures on that that would be useful too.

 

The first charge is the mortgage company and the second charge is my wife who has 75% equity share, the remaining 25% is my share.

 

 

Are you joint tenants or tenants in common? I

assume from the figures that you have given that you are tenants in common,

is that correct?

 

What charges have been placed on the account?

[interweb]

Hi Rory

 

Thanks for your reply.

 

The judgement on the final charging order says:-

 

1. The charge created by the order made on the 22 February 2008 shall continue.

 

2. The interest of the defendant in the asset described in the schedule below stand charged with payment of the sum of £19,076.04 the amount now owing under a judgement or order given on 08 February by the XXXX county court in claim number XXXXXX, together with any further interest becoming due and £213.00 the costs of the application.

 

3. The costs are to be added to the judgement debt.

 

Not sure what you mean by tenants in common??? But the property is in my name but it was suggested my wife put a charging order on last year to protect her interests as she has recently been the one paying the mortgage etc.

 

The original debt was about 15k but with their charges and interest etc. it has added up.

 

A copy of the original CCJ is with my accountant, I will try and get a copy in the next couple of days.

 

Can the house still be sold if there is not enough equity to cover the charging order by HFC? What happens in this case?

 

Is it still worth trying to get a copy of the original credit agreement?

 

Thanks for the help!

[rory32]

Can the house still be sold if there is not enough equity to cover the charging order by HFC?

Yes, but it would be your choice whether to sell or not.

What happens in this case?

 

 

The charges on the property are paid in order of the date of the charge.

 

 

The mortgage provider would be paid first,

then your wife,

then what ever was left over would go towards HFC's charge.

 

 

In your new property the mortgage provider would still have the first charge on the property and then the outstanding amount from HFC would be reregistered against your new property.

 

 

If you were to sell up and buy a new property you should ensure that the mortgage is taken out as tenants in common.

 

 

This means that you are regarded in law as having seperate and distinct shares in the property (just like you have now)

so your wifes share, which can be any amount, is protected as hers and hers alone.

[interweb]

Hi

 

Sorry for the delay but been trying to get a copy of the original judgement.

 

Restons/HFC have still not sent a copy of the agreement. They have a charge on my house now.

 

I wrote to the court asking for a copy of the judgement and a copy of the agreement. They sent me the judgement but said thay had no copy of the agreement and to seek legal advice.

 

How could they have given judgement without a copy of the agreement?

 

Judgement was issued because I failed to reply. This was bcos my soliciotor messed up.

 

What can I do now to get judgement overtunred, if anything?

 

I have scanned the judgement but notice that only the thumbnail comes up??

 

Thank you for your help.

[interweb]

Hi

 

Can someone please give me some advice.

 

HFC managed to get a CCJ and then a charge on my house. I will start to try and overturn judgement soon after digesting some more info from this web site.

 

Just received a letter form Phoenix Recoveries Limited S.a.r.l

- Marlin Recoveries saying that they have acquired all rights to the debt etc.

 

 

What exactly does this mean since HFC already took it as far as they could legally.

Will land registry details now be changed from HFC to Phoenix?

 

 

What else can Phoenix now threaten me with,

as from a previous message I understand it will be imposible for them to get a court order to have me sell my house as there is not enough equity to cover debt and I have a disabled daughter and two oaps living with me.

 

Thanks

[The GodMother]

sorry not something i know much about but i will be able to help get the thread noticed.

 

Help from a expert please.

[OnMyWayOut]

Same here - CCJ & charging order, now letter from Phoenix.

 

What is the point of them securing the debt then selling it on?

What would happen if I sold the house?

Why are they asking to 'agree payment terms' when there's a CCJ in place?

When will they stop screwing with my head?

[The GodMother]

i can answer some of those questions.

 

1) a charging order stops u from selling the house till the creditor is paid from what i can understand.

 

2) they will not care there is a CCj in place and will be wanting to get as much money out of you as they can.

3) when they give up and pass the account back to the OC/pass the acc to the next idiot who will take it on.

 

There is a way out for both of you.

 

You could always write to phonex and say you are only going to pay the court ordered amount to the court ordered company. that should keep them quiet for 5 minute.

 

Have u thought of applying to have the CO put to one side?

 

you caould always do this buy looking here Her Majesty's Courts Service - Home and filling out n244 and ex160 if u are on a low income/benefits.

 

Shout if u need any help.

[OnMyWayOut]

i can answer some of those questions.

 

1) a charging order stops u from selling the house till the creditor is paid from what i can understand.

 

Sorry - the question wasn't best worded! I know what a CO is about, but if it was awarded to HFC who would get the settlement now that HFC have sold on the debt (and probably written off the debt against tax)? Can a CO be assigned in the same way as a debt can?

 

Have u thought of applying to have the CO put to one side?

I have thought about this, as I never got the chance to challenge the CCA as it all started across Christmas with no access to any help at the time. I've just subscribed to another thread where someone is doing just this with HFC at the moment so I'll see what tips I can pick up.

 

Thanks.

Edited June 26, 2008 by OnMyWayOut
missing word

[The GodMother]

I dont know about that. I have always assumed that they cant pass it on as it is for them to gain only.

[stikky62]

a charging order stops u from selling the house till the creditor is paid

 

Not so.

You can still sell your house, but the "charge" has to be paid first before any of the proceeds of the sale can be given to seller (debtor)

Edited June 29, 2008 by stikky62

[interweb]

Hi Everyone

 

Thanks for the replies.

 

A CO cannot stop me selling my house, my wife has a charge on the house before HFC so they would get NOTHING if i sold my house in any case as there is not enough equity.

 

Aren't I also supposed to get a letter from HFC telling me that the debt has been passed on?

 

I am going to try and have the CO set aside but first I guess I need to have the original Judgement set aside. HFC have still not sent me acopy of the agreement etc. I am still going to direct all communication to HFC and ignore Phoenix - what can they do, take me to court again???

 

Where is the other thread wherte the person is trying to have a HFC/Restons judgement CO set aside?

 

Thanks

[The GodMother]

Sorry i had been mis informed.

[Satterthwaite]

Very similar thread here................ http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/139232-hfc-restons-charging-order.html

[interweb]

Hi

 

I'm starting the process of trying to get the original judgement overturned and then hoping to get the charging order scrapped.

 

I CCAd HFC a couple of weeks ago and have recieved a reply from them.

 

What they have sent me are the copies of the last 6 statements up to January 2008. It was passed to Restons in Dec 2007. I have continued making payments though since January 2008.

 

They have also sent me a 1 page semi legible copy of my original application form from 1997. At the top you can just about make out "Credit Agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974." But it sort of says this twice, like it was superimposed badly....???

 

I originally had a solicitor who questioned Restons on the outrageous charges and Restons replied that they were in the original agreement, bu tI can't see them anywhere???

 

Does what they have sent me constitute compliance with my request?

 

Thanks for any help and advice in advance.

 

Interweb

HFC.cca.pdf

[robcag]

Hi IW

 

 

They have also sent me a 1 page semi legible copy of my original application form from 1997. At the top you can just about make out "Credit Agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974." But it sort of says this twice, like it was superimposed badly....??? Possibly there are several applications (other than yours) stacked on top of each other in the photocopier?

 

I originally had a solicitor who questioned Restons on the outrageous charges and Restons replied that they were in the original agreement, bu tI can't see them anywhere??? I hope you didn't pay the solicitor anything, as it appears s/he didn't get anywhere?

 

Does what they have sent me constitute compliance with my request? They might be able to argue that they have complied with your CCA request, having provided what they are claiming to be an agreement. However what they have sent is completely unenforceable as it does not contain any of the required prescribed terms.

 

 

Cheers

Rob

[OnMyWayOut]

Subbing...

[interweb]

Hi

 

Can someone please tell me where I can find information on the 'prescribed terms' that make an agreement valid for a credit card.

 

Thanks.

 

IW

[pt2537]

 

 

[pt2537]

Nope sorry the document you posted is completely unenforceable

[robcag]

Hi interweb

 

Any updates to this yet (please)?

 

Cheers

Rob

[interweb]

Hi Robcag

 

I'm still researching. I notice another user recently issued a form to try and get judgement overturned and the reasons were quite comprehensive and involved - with help from our 'student lawyer' friend pt2537.

 

 

I am going to SAR them to get all the information and then write out a draft which hopefully will get constructive comments before presenting to the court.

 

How are you progressing?

 

Interweb

[robcag]

DELETED DUE TO SOMEHOW POSTING TWICE ?

 

Cheers

Rob

[robcag]

Hi IW

 

I've previously CCA'd and S.A.R - (Subject Access Request)'ed HFC, to no avail. My main aim was to get a copy of the original agreement if any. I then went on to send them a warning letter to try and get them to comply before taking action against them in the form of applying to the court for an order.

 

However, after CCA'ing Marlin (who allegedly were assigned the debt), Marlin came up trumps with a completely illegible application form which does not have any prescribed terms. I can't understand why HFC couldn't have sent it when asked.

 

So it looks like I'll be going ahead with my set-aside attempt very soon.

 

Cheers

Rob