Cabot & Am I missing something?

[tanglewood01]

Hi all. This is my first post here.

 

Along with many others, I have issues with Cabot. I do sincerely apologize in advance for yet another thread on Cabot and apologize even more profusely if I'm asking for advice that's already been given. I have read many of the existing threads but remain unclear on a couple of points.

 

My credit card was with Morgan & Stanley, then passed to Goldfish, then passed to Cabot. I received a letter from them dated 16th April (I did not receive it until some time later as I was on holiday) informing me they had bought the account from Goldfish - this was the first I'd heard of it!

 

 

• After reading info here I sent a CCG request 27th May.
  
• Received the same letter as everyone else saying they are not obliged to provide the information blah blah dated 30th May.
  
• Received another letter dated 11th June saying they were experiencing a delay and that as a token of 'goodwill' had put my account on hold.
  
• Received a further letter dated 23rd June saying they were still waiting for the info from the original lender and that my account was 'on hold until further notice'.
  

That's the story to date. It looks like they are not going to provide the CCA within the 12 days +1 month described in the forums.

 

So my question really is, does this mean I will not have to pay back the amount I owe?

 

Thank you in advance/

[Tecnobaz]

Yep thats about it CCA request 2 or 3 standard we are waiting for information then goes away, but like mine the letters start arriving again about 6 months later unless they pass it on before hand.

[jumpjet]

If they produce an agreement at some stage then you will have to pay. If they are over the 12+2 days, you can legaly stop paying them until they provide an agreement. They know this and as such have put the account on hold. If they get an agreement they will start collections from you again.

If they have no agreement after 30 days the will have committed a criminal offence. Now exactly what happens then I dont know as I was paying them via the cccs and they got their money anyway.

However, they wrote 2 weeks ago that "they had taken an executive decision" to write off the account. This has taken them nearly 3 years though! But I had S.A.R - (Subject Access Request)'d them about six months ago re claiming back charges etc. It maybe having to pay these amounted to more than the £3830 balance, I dont no, but it was a nice surprise.

One thing I would say though! Cabot have a website (I only realised this when I went to check the balance had really been wiped) and you have to register to check account online. If you are denying liability for this debt, be sure not to tick the check box thingy that says that you agree to their terms and conditions! Or at least read them very carefully.

[stikky62]

Read, edit to suit, and then send them this >

 

Account In Dispute

Ref:

 

Dear Sir/Madam

Thank you for your letter of xx/xx/xx, the contents of which have been noted.

 

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

On the **DATE** I wrote to you requesting a copy of the credit agreement and other information under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Sections 77-79)

 

On **DATE** a member of your staff signed for delivery of my written request and I have an electronic proof of delivery showing their signature and the date.

To date you have failed to comply with these requests in any way, whether by confirmation of receipt of the request or by supplying the requested documents.

 

These documents I requested should be readily available as proof of your legal right to collect this account under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

In my letter of the **DATE** I made a formal request for a copy of the signed, executed credit agreement for the above account under section 77(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

 

Furthermore

 

You are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before your client enters into a default situation.

If that request is not satisfied after a further 30 calendar days your client commits a summary criminal offence.

 

These limits have expired.

 

As you are no doubt aware section 78(6) states:

 

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

 

(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

 

And

(b) If the default continues for one month he commits an offence.

 

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

 

As you have Failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, Failed to send a full statement of the account and Failed to provide any of the documentation requested.

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

 

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

 

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

 

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

 

Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY Action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

 

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

*You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

*You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

*You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

 

You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

Yours faithfully

XXXX

 

I CCA'd Cabot today,,,, so i guess i've got the same letter coming my way soon.

Ooooooooh i'm so looking forward to it

Edited June 25, 2008 by stikky62

[stikky62]

hmmmmm.i dunno why those font tags appeared,,,,,sorry...will try and remove them.

 

Job done:D

Edited June 25, 2008 by stikky62

[tanglewood01]

For reference:

Response to CCG Request:

Second Letter:

Third letter:

Edited June 26, 2008 by tanglewood01

[jumpjet]

Mmmm! Now they look familiar!

[tanglewood01]

Thank you stikky62, I need to check but I think they have a couple of days left but I will certainly use this letter, it's a corker!

[stikky62]

It is isn't it. Props to CB (Curly Ben) i do believe for drafting that one. I could never write something like that in a million years.

[tanglewood01]

The latest letter. They are now over the +30 days so I'll be sending them the letter in the morning!

[havinastella]

CSJ

 

Just leave it, they are not trying to collect on the account.

[tanglewood01]

Are you saying I shouldn't send the letter?

[NailPost]

You should definately write to Cabot and tell them the matter is over, done with, finished. But I would shorten the letter suggested earlier. I wouldn't put in the bits about the law, Cabot are experienced debt collectors and know the law. They have a lawyer as head of compliance. Any questions ill-trained drones might have WW will be able to put them right.

 

And start getting ready to complain. They may appear to have acted leniently and generously in their patronising letters but each one ends with an invitation to discuss payment options with their drones. Ask for the complaints procedure and when this is supplied send a stiffly worded complaint.

 

If the final response is not acceptable take the complaint to the Financial Ombudsman. Cabot know that will hurtthem in the wallet.

[tanglewood01]

Unfortunately due to ill-health I've been delayed but the letter has been sent and I eagerly await their response!

[tanglewood01]

Unfortunately my period of ill-health has continued, with back problems but also an operation to have a cyst removed has been a problem. See post here if you're interested: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/nhs/150364-operation-gone-wrong-had.html

 

Anyway, back to Cabot. I haven't heard a thing since sending the letter supplied by stikky62.

 

What should I do next?

 

Thank you in advance.

[tanglewood01]

Hi all

 

I've received a response from cabot. They have included statements etc. but not the agreement and accept that as such it is not enforceable. The again say "Cabot does not have a duty to provide this information and therefore section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act does not apply to us.

 

With regards to the data protection part included in my letter, they have responded: "We must advise you thyat Cabot is legally entitled and obligated under the original credit agreement which you signed and entered into with the original lender, which has been sold to Cabot Financial Group, and under the Schedule 2 paragraphs 1-4 0f the Data Protection Act 1998 to process and sotre your information.

 

They have siad that as a gesture of 'goodwill' they will keep the account on hold but intend to chase it as soon as they have the original credit agreement.

 

What should I do??

 

Thank you in advance.

[stikky62]

bumping so someone more knowledgable can answer this.

 

In the meantime, I pinched this from Babybears CCA, DCAs and the Unfair Commercial Practices Directive thread >

 

Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations, which came into force on 26th May 2008. This has enabled the OFT to issue guidance to enforcement officers that provides a legal argument to support their view that DCA's are "Creditors" for the purposes of Sections 77 and 78 of the Consumer Credit Act

 

The account was sold to them so they are now the creditors....so YES, they do have a duty to provide the information and sect's 77 / 78 do apply to them no matter what they think.

 

As for the D.P.A and processing your information,,,how do they know you've signed it if they don't have the agreement ?!?!

 

 

bump

[ashmk]

Cabot live in the land of fairies and pixies.