cabot and monument debt

[overdone]

Monument Acc, This arrived this morning from Cabot.

 

Dear Overdone,

 

Your request for information under the consumer credit act.

 

Thank you for your letter dated 11 July 2008.

 

We acknowledge receipt of your request under sections 77 and 78 of the consumer credit act 1974.

 

The cabot financial group is not obliged to provide this information but we are pleased to help and have already requested the documentation for you from the original lender.

 

Cabot financial does not accept the statutory fee required under sec 77 and 78 of the consumer credit act 1974 and as a result cabot has returned the fee for £1.00 that you have sent.

 

What happens next

 

We anticipate that we will be able to provide this information within 12 days. In the event we are unlikely to obtain this information within those time limits, we will write to you again.

 

Contacting Cabot

 

If you have any queries about your account or any payment options, call one of our helpful customer advisors on 01732 524615.

 

In the meantime we thank you for your co-operation.

 

Yours sincerely

Emma Robertson

 

Down the side of the letter is,

 

Your cabot ref

isabel/xxxxxxxxxxx

 

The O.C

Monument

 

Acc Type

Credit Card

 

You currently Owe

£2197.66 + £317.54 unapplied interest.

enc with letter P.O.

 

 

Now, isn't that nice of them?

[maroondevo52]

[quote=overdone;1642984

 

We anticipate that we will be able to provide this information within 12 days. In the event we are unlikely to obtain this information within those time limits, we will write to you again.

 

Yeh ? Told me that 4 months ago, and still nowt

 

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

[overdone]

 

The cabot financial group is not obliged to provide this information but we are pleased to help and have already requested the documentation for you from the original lender.

 

I understand that since May 2008, the DCA has to provide this info or stop collecting on debt. Same obligation as OC.

[reallymadwoman]

It always has been the same obligation. The difference is that now Trading Standards are allegedly obliged to investigate every complaint.

[overdone]

Monument account produced this letter,

 

We write further to your request for information under sections 77 and 78 of the consumer credit act.

 

Although cabot has requested the information, the original lender is experiencing a delay in retrieving the information from it's archives.

 

We shall send the information to you as soon as we receive it.

 

We will as a gesture of goodwill put your account on hold until we receive further communication from the original lender.

 

If you have any queries about your account or any payment options, call one of our helpful customers advisors on...........

 

Yours sincerely

 

Customer relations.

[maroondevo52]

The usual, Overdone It's now a waiting game.

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

[overdone]

The usual, Overdone It's now a waiting game.

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

 

Well, I cancelled my D.Debit to monument who usually send it on to Cabot.

[maroondevo52]

Well, I cancelled my D.Debit to monument who usually send it on to Cabot.

 

Quite right

[overdone]

Is this a Valid CCA from Monument. They are running me around with some strange strategy.

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/161981-monument-cca-request.html

[atwozee]

It doesn’t look enforceable – No prescribed terms within the signature document – terms and conditions referred to clearly in another document – This is a copy of the application for a card and not the executed agreement (they might not have an executed agreement which requires both yours and their signature but I wouldn’t point this out to them yet).

In their letter I think they have provided you with their own interpretation of the consumer credit act 1974 and it doesn’t look right to me. Hopefully one of the more experienced caggers will be able to clarify. It looks like they are being a little creative with their requirements – I guess in the hope that you just swallow it and don’t dispute the agreement.

What ever happens now is up to you but if I received that in a response to a cca request then I would write back to them saying that I am not satisfied and put the account in dispute. I am assuming your request is over the 12 working days mark.

[overdone]

Bump.....Yes, it is well over twelve days.

[atwozee]

If you want to dispute the agreement then you need to send something like this -

Dear Sir/Madam

Re: Account number: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

 

Thank you for sending me what you have confirmed to be a true copy of the credit agreement that exist in relation to this account. As you have sent this document in response to my requests under Section 78 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, then this statement by you is now binding on you as per section 172 of the Act.

 

The document that you have supplied does not constitute a legally binding regulated agreement between us and is in breach of Section 61 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and is therefore unenforceable by virtue of Section 127 of the act. I am aware that Section 127 was repealed in the Consumer Credit Act 2006 but this is not retrospective and applies only to agreements signed after 6th April 2007.

I do not and will not acknowledge this alleged debt. Furthermore, I dispute the legality of the debt until such a time as you can produce a satisfactory consumer credit agreement.

Furthermore, you are advised that a creditor is not permitted to take any action against an account whilst it remains in dispute. The lack of a properly executed credit agreement is a very clear dispute and therefore the following applies:

• You may not demand any payment on this account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.
  
• You may not add any further interest or charges to this account.
  
• You may not pass this account to any third party.
  
• You may not register any information in respect of this account with any of the credit reference agencies.
  
• You may not issue a default notice related to this account.
  

I also requested that you remove any default registered with any credit reference agencies against this account as you are not permitted to default a disputed account. I further request that you confirm to me in writing that you have complied with my request. Failure do so may result in legal proceedings being taken against you to enforce the removal of this default and at such time you will need to explain why you have issued a default on an account that is not regulated under the consumer credit act.

The Data Protection Act

Please note: you may also consider this letter a statutory notice under Section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect. This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and you are advised that you are not entitled to refer this account to any third party and this includes but is not limited to any debt collection agency and credit reference agency.

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’ you must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends. Should you fail to respond within 21 days, I will expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

I look forward to your reply regarding this matter.

Yours faithfully

Print name don’t sign

Modify this letter as required but don’t expect a speedy resolution to your dispute. Most creditors ignore legislation and consistently breach the consumer credit act. If you stop making payments to an account that they believe you owe money against then they are likely to default you and continue to chase payment. If you are in a position to make a reduced offer in full and final settlement then that would be the best way to end the matter quickly.

The agreement looks unenforceable so it’s entirely up to you where you go from here. As I said before – if it were me I would put the account in dispute and be confident of defending this in court – but that’s me!

[underdog13]

brilliant letter atwozee - mind if I pinch bits of it (ie, most of it:))?

subbing

[atwozee]

Help yourself – I pinched most of it from on here!

[underdog13]

great minds think alike:D

[overdone]

Heartfelt thanks.

[angel_1]

hiya overdone

 

any updates yet got anything back from these muppets?

 

ive got something very very similar to you this week and im going to scan over the weekend

 

will subscribe to your thread

 

good luck fingers crossed ciao maz

[overdone]

The reference no's barclays have sent me do not all tie into place but it looks like they have sold the debt on.

barclaycardselletter-1.jpg - Image - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

 

They have ignored the letter I sent in post 4. Naughty people.

Edited November 14, 2008 by overdone
additional message.

[atwozee]

Barclaycard should have told you they were selling your debt on – did they?

Did they issue you with a default on this account before terminating the agreement and if they did you keep a copy?

[overdone]

Barclaycard should have told you they were selling your debt on – did they?

 

Did they issue you with a default on this account before terminating the agreement and if they did you keep a copy?

The letter in post ten, is all I got along with nonesense info that does not comply with my cca request. Reckon they know the debt is unenforceable and are selling on, as a means of damage limitation. I would have thought this unlawful because really they are still in default of my request but are going to act dumb about it by maintaining what they have sent me will do.

Edited November 12, 2008 by overdone
typo

[atwozee]

Well if they only sent you a copy of an agreement then they haven’t complied fully with your request and this will come back to bite them in the bum.

Have they issued you with an 87 (1) default notice – knowing Barclaycard it will probably be via Mercers. They might have done this a while ago – not sure if you keep all the letters they send you but make sure you do from now on and keep the envelopes. I write the date I receive mine on the envelope for later reference.

You might be in for a few dca letters/calls regarding this account but they’ll probably let the interest build first – don’t let them get you down - if the paperwork isn’t in order they are going to have a hard time enforcing aren’t they.

[overdone]

Apparently, they have not sold the debt on. The confusion got caused by a mix up of reference numbers and two additional Bcard accounts.

This is the letter Monument sent and it arrived today.

 

Dear Overdone,

I am sorry that you have had to contact us about your monument account. Thank you for taking the time and trouble to do so.

 

At Monument we are dedicated to customer satisfaction and when a customer has a concern with our product or service, we strive to treat that concern with the utmost seriousness.

 

We wrote to you on 21 October 2008 and enclosed for the purposes of section 78(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (as amended) the CCA an executed copy of your agreement with us. We do not agree with you that the copy we provided does not comply with our obligations under section 78(1) for the following reasons:

 

1. Section 78(1) does not require us to provide you with an exact copy or photocopy of the agreement you signed. We are not required to provide you with a copy showing your name or your signature and no section of the CCA imposes upon us to retain or produce a copy of your agreement showing your name or your signature and no section of the CCA imposes upon us to retain or produce a copy of your agreement showing your signature.

 

2, Section 78(1) requires us to provide you with a copy of your agreement which looks like the one you signed but which has been updated to contain the terms and conditions which currently apply to your agreement (rather than those which applied at the time you signed the agreement). The copy we provided you with, is in the appropriate format and does include all the current terms of your agreement with us.

 

It follows from the forgoing that we believe that we have complied with our obligation to provided you with a copy of your agreement under section 78 (1). We hope this letter has been helpful in explaining what the requirements of section 78(1) are and that you will resume making payments on your account.

 

I will keep your complaint file open for 8 weeks so you have time to consider my response. If I have not heard from you by then, I will regard your complaint as closed.

 

Our aim is to resolve your complaints internally, although we recognise this may not always be possible. If we are unable to agree a way forward you may be able to ask the Financial Ombudsman Service to review your complaint.

 

Please note however, that the Financial Ombudsman Service do not seek to make judgements regarding the legal enforceability, or not, of credit agreements. They consider that this is a matter for the Courts to decide.

 

Yours sincerely

Jackie Mathews.

Edited November 20, 2008 by overdone
typos

[atwozee]

Okay, they might think they’ve complied with your request but that’s arguable.

Did they send you a copy of the cancellation form they aver to in the alleged agreement? (which is an application anyway) If they didn’t then they haven’t complied. No need to inform them though, they know what they are supposed to supply.

Regardless of whether they complied the agreement is unenforceable because as it stands it is deficient of the prescribed terms. I don’t think it even refers to them on the reverse.

Not a lot you can do until they take you to court or sell the debt on but they aren’t supposed to sell the debt on whilst in default of your s78 request.

Why don’t you write them a short letter confirming that they haven’t complied fully with your request and suggest they review both what they have sent and the relevant legislation.

[overdone]

Image of Monument CCA - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

 

Image of Monument Letter - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

 

Image of monument1of4 - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

 

Image of monument2of4 - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

 

Image of monument3of4 - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

 

Image of monument4of4 - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

 

 

"I don't think they refer to them on the reverse" is a confusing observation as I am not aware of what the reverse is? Are these the prescribed terms?

What is the cancellation form?

Edited November 21, 2008 by overdone

[atwozee]

Underneath your signature is a statement that says – Your right to cancel blahdeblah – they refer to a notice on how to cancel and they will send details in the post – that’s a document and they have to include it in your s78 request (only a small detail but if they don’t send it they haven’t fulfilled their obligation under an s78 request)

Have a look through everything they’ve sent you and see if you can see anything that resembles a cancellation notice – it will say something like you can cancel this agreement by writing to us at the following address blahdeblah.

S78 is very clear – the creditor is obliged to send you a copy of the agreement and any other document referred to in it (which is why they have to send you the t&c’s and the cancellation notice) If they don’t comply then they can’t enforce and you can (if you wish) withhold any future payments and dispute the alleged debt until they do comply.

Next - sometimes they refer to a particular term or condition within the application/agreement or they refer to the terms overleaf, reverse or something like that. On your application/agreement they don’t refer to the back of the document but they do refer to condition 21.

Now you have to check if condition 21 is

• Included in the t&c’s that they sent to you
  
• It matches what they say it does on the agreement i.e; Data protection
  

If it doesn’t then it creates uncertainty because alleged agreements and alleged terms don’t match. There can be no uncertainty regarding evidence if it came to a hearing.

To remove the doubt they must provide the original or an acceptable copy of the original that removes all doubt. Obviously this is looking ahead but that’s what you need to do so that you are prepared – once you are prepared and sure of your argument you can relax and not worry about the meaningless threats that they throw at you.

Next thing to watch out for is the default notice – if they send you one you need to post it up on your thread – sometimes the creditor makes mistakes on this important document and if they were to make a claim against you the dodgy DN kills their case.

Sorry for rambling on! That’s a lot to take in but I hope that clears a couple of things up for you.